Author Topic: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station  (Read 176320 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2011, 12:26:20 pm »
Sorry to hear.  I think I posted all photos of the key defects, as did tasman. 

If you have some doubts compare it to our photos and if you're still not sure try posting a photo of the same areas such as the PCB of the handle.  I think tasman showed it but check continuity with an ohmeter of the handle and the ground plug, then open the case and check continuity of any point inside the case and the ground plug; ideally it should be near zero ohms.




I was sure i took my 858 apart when i got it and it was fine, starting to doubt myself now :/
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline FenderBender

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1118
  • Country: us
    • The Solid State Workshop
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2011, 04:06:23 am »
Yeah I don't have GFCI directly on my bench but down the line it's connected. It's saved me from seriously getting hurt when I do dumb things like short an IEC inlet with my hand...
 

alm

  • Guest
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2011, 08:17:40 am »
Something is seriously wrong if you get shocked by an inlet.
 

Offline FenderBender

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1118
  • Country: us
    • The Solid State Workshop
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2011, 02:35:07 pm »
Something is wrong with me or with the inlet?

I didn't realize it was on and grabbed it by the back probably making contact with all three terminals. Not sure exactly what happened  but GFCI kicked in.
 

Offline Kibi

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
  • Country: zw
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2012, 08:51:41 pm »
I took heed to the information in this thread.
My 858D+ arrived at work the other day, and since I have access to a PAT machine at work I thought I'd be responsible and give it a quick test.
It failed miserably. No ground to chassis. There is ground to the nozzle, but but it's over 1 Ohm, so the machine failed that part too. The 1 Ohm would be due to the relatively thin wires in the cable up to the hand piece.
I think just connecting a the chassis to ground will sort it out.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2012, 09:06:22 pm »
it's due to the thin wires but hey 1ohm is STILL much lower then 10k ohms
 

Offline akcoder

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 45
  • Country: us
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2012, 04:25:07 am »
I thought I would add my voice to the mix here. I received my W.E.P. 858D today. Like everyone else, my unit was miswired. However some of the more glaring problems others had were not present on my unit.

What was right?
  • Properly switched on the hot leg
  • The tip is grounded
  • The case is grounded
  • The fan wasn't butchered! No tool or cut marks on it

What was wrong?
  • Fused on the neutral leg
  • 1/8" (3 mm) diameter blob of solder in the handle underneath the pcb just waiting to come loose and short stuff out
  • The solder on the pcb in the handle looked pretty bad, but that could be due to my lack of experience with lead-free solder...

-dan
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2012, 04:51:19 am »
If you see dull solder joints it's definitely bad joints, i have never seen a china brand product with lead-free

Fused on the wrong leg? That's what they do to save money,  >:(
 

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6474
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2012, 11:08:40 am »
If you see dull solder joints it's definitely bad joints, i have never seen a china brand product with lead-free

Fused on the wrong leg? That's what they do to save money,  >:(
When was the last time you bought electronics from China? They've been lead-free for years (RoHS), and leaded solder is becoming more expensive.

 

Online Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5927
  • Country: gb
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2012, 11:34:55 am »
If you see dull solder joints it's definitely bad joints, i have never seen a china brand product with lead-free

Yeah, right..

Quote
Fused on the wrong leg? That's what they do to save money,  >:(

... It doesn't save any money. They probably do it because they don't care, as many countries don't even bother with with polarised connections.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2012, 01:17:34 pm »
If you see dull solder joints it's definitely bad joints, i have never seen a china brand product with lead-free

Fused on the wrong leg? That's what they do to save money,  >:(
When was the last time you bought electronics from China? They've been lead-free for years (RoHS), and leaded solder is becoming more expensive.
'

RoHS my ass ... walk into the SEG and tell me if you come back with lead-free products. Want me to show it? I bought a couple of things from the SEG (which all dont work anymore properly) and the solder they use easily melt at 250C (Still bad solder but definitely not lead-free) with a 936
At least when it comes to Yihua and Atten and BEST i used them all i know what it is.
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2012, 04:21:25 pm »
Just a side comment.  250C? Pb solder is 60-40 Sn/Pb or the eutectic mix all tend to melt under 200C, near 185C.  Most lead free solder in electronics tends to melt higher, over 210C and up.  Also one assume your station is properly calibrated to use melting point to estimate the alloy.  If it melts towards the low end, it suggests leaded solder, over 220C is more suggestive its lead free.

RoHS my ass ... walk into the SEG and tell me if you come back with lead-free products. Want me to show it? I bought a couple of things from the SEG (which all dont work anymore properly) and the solder they use easily melt at 250C (Still bad solder but definitely not lead-free) with a 936
At least when it comes to Yihua and Atten and BEST i used them all i know what it is.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 04:25:27 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2012, 09:07:46 pm »
NOTE : 250C points to bad solder. Instant melting

Lead-free solder that easily melts at 220C is either pointed to two things : Well wetted tip and a station with lots of thermal horsepower metcal/jbc/fx-951/QK202D

You seriously expect good solder to come out of china? No way. The only lead-free chinese board i met required me to turn up to 380C
 

Offline arekm

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
  • Country: pl
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2012, 08:35:38 am »
btw. QK202D is rebranded Quick 202D from China (http://www.quickchina.com.cn/product/2006-8-23/200682380334.html).
PLD/Linux Team. Electronics as a hobby.
http://readme.maven.pl/
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2012, 10:45:46 am »
I know. In fact the first thing i knew about the QK202D is that it's made by Quick and they don't do model rebrands. QK stands for QUICK
 

Offline htassell

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 29
  • Country: au
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2012, 11:43:51 am »
Reading this thread made me remeber that I picked one of these rework stations up a year or so ago for $60 delivered via AliExpress. I haven't had the need to use it as I bought a JBC system instead, but I thought I'd pull it out and have a look.

Unsurprisingly, it also features some of the issues reported in this thread. Overall however, once these problems were rectified, the station performs quite well. Really well actually, when you consider the fact that it is 1/15th the cost of the JBC station I purchased.

My specific unit is a Saike 898D, but is functionally identical to the Atten stations discussed here with a Hakko 900 style soldering iron added into the mix.



Here's a view of the front panel PCB - typical mess with power and signal wires bunched together.



You can also see the earth post in the lower right of the image. The yellow wire is from the transformer chassis ground, the thin green wire is from the metal shroud of the hot air hand piece.

There is another similar earth post at the upper left of the photo hidden behind the bundle of wires. This one is again joined to transformer chassis ground and the front panel, and also earths the exposed metal of the soldering iron.



This image shows the station with the rear panel removed. It also shows the major problems with this station. Firstly, there is no strain relief on the mains inlet cord. There is just a dab of glue and the grommet holding it there.

You can also see that the earth wire from the mains lead is in fact not connected to anything at all. It has been stripped and tinned, so obviously there was the intention to solder it to the earthing tab that you can see in the background on the bolt fastening the transformer to the case, but it must have been missed.



Finally, it is also obvious to see that the fuse is connected to the neutral rather than active.



In terms of the hot air wand, there are no signs of grinding or hacking of the fan enclosure to make it fit. Likewise all wires are well attached to the PCB with no large stretches of bare copper exposed or anything like that seen in other stations.



So after strain relief was fitted to the mains cable, the mains earth wire re-attached, and the active and neutral swapped around plus a bit of tidying up and re-bundling of wires, the station was good to go.

It actually works really quite well and I'm happy with it, certainly for the $60 delivered I paid for it. Having a second unit is handy because I can have it set for lead free temperature, while my main JBC station is set for 60/40 which I work with most.

Cheers,

Hugh
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 12:13:00 pm by htassell »
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2012, 11:59:47 am »
I think you should reverse their roles  ;D
Leave the lead-free for the JBC, because lead-free requires a little more power on the 936 but hey, if you hardly ever work with lead-free it doesn't matter

Anyway, be careful with using it in environments warmer than 28C, my Yihua (who seems to be the OEM for Saike) 858D failed in short order after a month or rather combined usage of a few hours overheated the triac... in 35C environments
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 12:02:05 pm by T4P »
 

Offline htassell

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 29
  • Country: au
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2012, 12:16:43 pm »
Thanks for the heads-up. I imagine I'll rarely use it, just occasionally when I'm fixing something I haven't made.

 I'm in Tassie, so the average temp down here would be something like 19 degrees or so  :)
 

Offline GEuser

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 501
  • Country: 00
  • Is Leaving
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2012, 01:15:51 pm »
htassell , that hot gun is nearly exactly the same in my new YiHua 853d , see on the pcb board a YH !, the only slight difference is the colour of wires to the heater , i think (its all back together) there were 2 clear wires but i cannot remember if they were from the sensor or reed switch now , but a carbon copy and works well for the cost ...
Soon
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2012, 01:40:08 pm »
htassell , that hot gun is nearly exactly the same in my new YiHua 853d , see on the pcb board a YH !, the only slight difference is the colour of wires to the heater , i think (its all back together) there were 2 clear wires but i cannot remember if they were from the sensor or reed switch now , but a carbon copy and works well for the cost ...
Well ... Yihua is known as a OEM actually
 

Offline GEuser

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 501
  • Country: 00
  • Is Leaving
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2012, 02:28:33 pm »
Ok , i now know too!  ;D
Soon
 

Offline Jimmy the Squid

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 52
  • Country: us
  • Complete and utter newb.
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2012, 01:09:00 am »
Just got one of these, and tore it right the heck apart. I was very surprised that find everything in order. Fuse on the hot, mains connected correctly, and ground to chassis and to metal parts nozzle. The machine is labled YiHua, as are all the boards inside. The construction was a bit sloppily done, bit the solder connections all look good. I was somewhat annoyed at their propensity to use whatever color wire they had laying around instead of using some sort of logic. But at least it functions properly and probably won't kill me.

There was even a shiny holographic Q.C. sticker on the outside. Of course the sticker did say "Qenuine Q.C. Passed". I guess they spell "genuine" with a 'Q' in China.

Anyway, I had fun taking it apart, and I really appreciated this thread that helped me to look out for all the potential pitfalls.
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2012, 11:49:06 am »
Great.  Hopefully the complaints raised here helped.  Few reports of the main board going, or parts failing, so it suggests the supplier is decent, so all complaints focused on assembly; that should be easy to remedy, just tell the assembler foreman to insure the proper order and not let things slide.

Chinese stuff can be devious, those QC stickers could be just stuck there for marketing more than true QC.  If you go to hardware stores in Asia, they sell QC stickers of all types in rolls for anyone to buy.'

http://www.mavericklabel.com/products/imprinted-hologram-stickers.php

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/577287841/Custom_made_adhesive_holographic_quality_control.html

Luckily you did your own QC thanks to the folks who have posted on various 858D threads that was sparked by Dave's initial purchase.

You may want to buy a spare heater element because they are not easy to find and there is no part number to reference, so ask the seller you got it from if they have any and get a few; I got 1 for $6 delivered.  Enjoy.



Just got one of these, and tore it right the heck apart. I was very surprised that find everything in order. Fuse on the hot, mains connected correctly, and ground to chassis and to metal parts nozzle. The machine is labled YiHua, as are all the boards inside. The construction was a bit sloppily done, bit the solder connections all look good. I was somewhat annoyed at their propensity to use whatever color wire they had laying around instead of using some sort of logic. But at least it functions properly and probably won't kill me.

There was even a shiny holographic Q.C. sticker on the outside. Of course the sticker did say "Qenuine Q.C. Passed". I guess they spell "genuine" with a 'Q' in China.

Anyway, I had fun taking it apart, and I really appreciated this thread that helped me to look out for all the potential pitfalls.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 11:52:38 am by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline nukie

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 771
  • Country: au
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2012, 01:04:40 pm »
They should really just offer it as a kit. What's the point of building it if you can't get it right. Get someone to write a crap assembly instructions let the internet refine the steps. And voila you got some nice kits for sale.

tapatalk
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: DEADLY WIRING FAULT ; Atten 858D+ Hot Air Rework Station
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2012, 01:38:32 pm »
I think of all China brand equipment as kits, that's why the tear downs are invaluable, one can know what to expect.  Why bother assemble the whole thing, its easier and faster to check the work and fix what needs fixing.  Kits only matters if the owner is new to electronics and needs to learn as well as use the item. 

If the Chinese can't write or hire someone to write a users manuals in English, instructions for assembly would likely be far worse.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 03:00:25 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf