Author Topic: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead  (Read 17222 times)

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Offline nuclearcat

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #100 on: January 17, 2021, 08:24:38 am »
Got rid of whattsapp last year after finding out 3rd parties can spy on your online status, even detecting if you are chatting to another person.

Dunno if Signal and Telegram have the same problem.

Ian.
Telegram have quite good control on such aspects of privacy. You can limit side-channel (calls) and online status with precise granularity (everybody, your contacts, nobody and exceptions)
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #101 on: January 17, 2021, 09:57:06 am »
Whatsapp and Telegram user here, tested Signal for few months only, basically its still very crude stage compared to Telegram.

Also with recent outage, surely it can not be relied on for important instant messaging app, maybe we should wait for a while like few months until all settled.

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #102 on: January 17, 2021, 10:15:42 am »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.
 

Online voltsandjolts

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #103 on: January 17, 2021, 10:50:01 am »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.

Did you notice the address of this webpage begins with https?

I don't have anything to hide, I'm lucky enough live in one of the safer countries. I just object to the ever more intense and invasive marketing techniques which are now extending into deep personality modeling. Are we going to end up in a future where there is an AI model of your brain on a cloud computer somewhere :-)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 10:58:59 am by voltsandjolts »
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #104 on: January 17, 2021, 12:14:59 pm »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.

And why is that ?
Freedom of privacy is as important as freedom of speech.


 
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Offline tszaboo

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2021, 10:01:18 pm »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.
Sure, can you please post here:
- last weeks browsing history
- and your entire contact list
- your GPS location at all times
- and your call history
- ant text message you sent

Please, just post it here below this message. Since you have nothing to hide.
 
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2021, 10:57:48 pm »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.

A worthwhile read
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565
 

Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2021, 10:59:08 pm »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.

That's a bit of a generalisation isn't it? I have a reasonable right to privacy as an individual, regardless of the content.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #108 on: January 17, 2021, 11:00:21 pm »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.

A worthwhile read
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565
You can find some very interesting and scary talks by the author of that paper, Daniel J. Solove, on Youtube.
 
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Offline rfclown

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #109 on: January 17, 2021, 11:37:19 pm »
Fortunately for me, it was easy to switch since I only use WhatsApp for family communication. My family used to use Viber, then someone had a issue when they went overseas... so we switched to WhatsApp. My son posted his issues with WhatsApp's new policy about a week ago, so we jumped to Signal. They are all free services, so I figure I can't complain. It's the internet, and there's always going to be options. And I don't mind paying a small fee.

My beef is with paid programs that go south. Different topic, but the biggest one for me that I haven't figured out what to do with is Windows 10. It's now the maleware. Not so easy to switch when I'm invested in some programs that only run on Windows (and test equipment whose software runs on Windows).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 11:40:51 pm by rfclown »
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2021, 11:58:08 pm »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.

A worthwhile read
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565
You can find some very interesting and scary talks by the author of that paper, Daniel J. Solove, on Youtube.
Thanks, I'll have a look.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2021, 12:48:25 am »
The deeper you go the higher you fly.

iratus parum formica
 

Offline duckduck

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2021, 03:05:07 am »
No state actor cares about your cat pics. Or your nudes. Or how wasted Michelle got last weekend. It's like that XKCD. Nobody is gonna build a supercomputer to crack the 4096-bit encryption to your bank account. They're just going to hit you with a wrench until you tell them the password.

Which isn't to say nobody should care. They should. But all you folks sending a deluge of requests to your friends to "use this totally secure, totally obscure open source messenger, and it's so easy! Here's a step-by-step on how to sideload the APK onto your phone" are probably just going to end up with fewer friends. If there's an existing, widely used, widely supported messenger that it perfectly fine for everything but transmitting classified info or nuclear launch codes, it's probably good enough. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. It may be a fun hobby for you, it's not for the majority of people who actually need to use it in order to start making a majority of our comms secure.

Signal is in the Apple app store and the Google app place-thing, too. Its combination of good security, low price (free!), and ease of installation are why it is used by millions of people around the world. Best of luck to the folks with the "sideload this APK" app.

I also agree with the wrench thing. If a state actor wants you, you have bigger problems than choosing the right instant messenger app. The point of encryption is to make the state have to put in that same work for each person they want to surveille. All the "modern" states bulk-scan and catalog SMS messages. They can't do that with Signal.

How wasted did Michelle get last weekend?
 

Offline vad

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #113 on: January 18, 2021, 03:31:54 am »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.
Sure, can you please post here:
- last weeks browsing history
- and your entire contact list
- your GPS location at all times
- and your call history
- ant text message you sent

Please, just post it here below this message. Since you have nothing to hide.
For those who have something to hide there are things like rubber hose crypto analysis, or 7 years self imprisonment in Ecuadorian Embassy. Other are just dreaming of being James Bonds or Marvins from Red (2010):

“- Frank, how many times have I told you? You cannot trust the system! I told you when you're in the system, they switch the flip and you're done. Man, satellites, cell phones, chips, net, the web, the dentist.”



 

Online voltsandjolts

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #114 on: January 24, 2021, 09:43:23 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jan/24/is-it-time-to-leave-whatsapp-and-is-signal-the-answer

Interesting, I didn't know the WhatsApp founder had concerns with Facebook's intent and then helped fund Signal with $50M.

Quote
Signal is supported by the non-profit Signal Foundation, set up in 2018 by WhatsApp founder Brian Acton and security researcher (and Signal Messenger CEO) Moxie Marlinspike, who created an encryption protocol that is used by several messaging services, including WhatsApp and Skype as well as Signal itself. Acton, who left Facebook in 2017 after expressing concerns over how the company operated, donated an initial $50m to Signal, and the open-source app is now funded by the community. Essentially that means developers across the world will continually work on it and fix security issues as part of a collaborative effort, making the app arguably more secure.

But there are concerns over whether Signal can maintain this free model as its user base increases to the tens, or potentially in the future, hundreds of millions. Signal is adamant it can continue to offer its service for free. “As a non-profit, we simply need to break even,” says Aruna Harder, the app’s COO.

Signal is exclusively supported by grants and donations, says Acton. “We believe that millions of people value privacy enough to sustain it, and we’re here to demonstrate that there is an alternative to the ad-based business models that exploit user privacy.”
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 09:49:26 am by voltsandjolts »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #115 on: January 31, 2021, 11:06:28 pm »
Encrypted messaging or telephony is for those who have something to hide.
Which is literally everybody, without exception. We all have things we hide.

Let's pretend everything happened in cleartext. Would you want for a house guest to be able to snoop in on your messaging with your spouse? Would you be OK with a thief knowing when you were going to be out of town, because they listened in on your messaging while you made plans with a friend? What if you were a woman with a stalker ex? Does that suddenly make privacy more important?

Consider that seemingly most Internet use these days is on Wi-Fi, whose security is good, but not perfect. And if you're on the same Wi-Fi network (like public Wi-Fi hotspots), you may be able to snoop tons of traffic.

Upshot is, crime is but a tiny, tiny, tiny share of the reasons for wanting secure communication. And it's certainly not reason enough to deny all the legitimate uses.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2021, 11:54:13 am »
Just a follow up on my WhatsApp / Signal / VSee comparison in reply #92....

I've given Signal some time now and it seems to have mostly recovered from the surge of new users. I wonder if there will be another surge in mid-Feb when Facebook 'clarify' their WhatApp privacy policy!

So what am I left with - I've excluded the Whatsapp and VSee items because nothing has changed (functionally):

Android App UI...
- Notification ticks seem intermittent, sometimes delivered but only shows one tick.

Yep, that was a new user surge issue, now fine.

- One case of application hanging (Pixel 4A). Messages shown as delivered (2 ticks) but never arrived or notified, Required Force Stop and run again.

No reoccurrence, fine.

- Messaging sluggish compared to VSee.

Yes, another new user surge issue. Usually fine, occasionally phone notification takes rather longer than desktop app.

- Video quality poorer than VSee.

Still true (though better), I think VSee just has more efficient video compression.


Windows App...

- Startup is slow.
- If messaging has been happening between phones since it was last run, it can take several minutes downloading messages before you can do anything.

The desktop app (itself) is still very slow to startup, compared to other programs. Downloading messages is quicker though (another new user surge issue)

- When using a webcam (the reason for using the desktop version in the first place), it only sends a narrow vertical central strip of the camera image to the phone, not the full 4:3 image. There does not seem to be any setting to correct this.

Still a ridiculous problem, that makes the desktop app almost pointless. I did a lot of searching and finally found a reference in the Signal forum, to which the answer was pretty much 'Yeah, it does that, we might fix it some day'.

- The video that is transmitted and received was poorer quality (detail and smoothness) than VSee.

Still the case. As mentioned above, it's just down to video compression - not that it matters when you are fighting each other to get into the central letterbox of the webcam!


So where does that leave things. I now (thanks OP) need three apps installed on the phone and two on the laptop. Signal so that I can feel all warm an secure, WhatsApp for the people who are never going to bother switching, and VSee so that we can have sensible webcam video chats with our Son! Hopefully that number won't need to increase any further - unless there's somebody who still insists on using Skype.  :palm:

^ Ok, a little 'tongue in cheek', but it's still a fair representation of a typical usage case.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline lisarose9

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #117 on: February 01, 2021, 01:00:48 pm »
It is actually very difficult to complete stop using whatsapp, since all my professional groups are there. But i have actually, revoked all the access permissions to the app. hope that makes a difference.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #118 on: February 01, 2021, 04:44:47 pm »
I have WhatsCrap insalled on my phone but hardly ever use it. I have the notifications switched off, because most of the time it's people posting random crap  I don't care about, such as what they've eaten for dinner. The main reason why I don't use it much is because every photo I view gets uploaded to my phone's photos folder, which is backed up to the iCloud which gets full, if I don't go through and delete the pictures I don't want to keep, which is labourious.
 

Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #119 on: February 01, 2021, 06:45:47 pm »
WhatsApp for the people who are never going to bother switching

You're an enabler. People won't switch because you continue to use it. Once you stop using it and transition away to something else, people will follow. I limit the number of ways people can contact me. Either call or text me (via Signal or traditional cellular network) or email. That's it. No social media, no app bloat, no constant notifications of cat photos from people, just the people who actually want to talk to me. I do use Discord occasionally but that lives on my PC, I don't have it one my phone any more.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #120 on: February 01, 2021, 07:37:46 pm »
WhatsApp for the people who are never going to bother switching
You're an enabler.
Nah, he's just afraid people don't like him enough. :) Most users of Whatsapp were probably using one of the numerous alternatives before Whatsapp started to achieve dominance. As long as the apps are free and in the app stores, people are only a couple of minutes away from having the next one up and running. As soon as they find key people have moved to a new app, they install the new app. That is how Whatsapp became so big. The only reason they wouldn't install another app is that nobody of any importance to them requires that app.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #121 on: February 01, 2021, 07:59:07 pm »
You two clearly haven't met my sister! :P

She's an avid Facebooker anyway, so won't see what the fuss is about.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 08:01:43 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #122 on: February 01, 2021, 09:04:17 pm »

WhatsApp for the people who are never going to bother switching
You're an enabler.
Make the switch and become an *influencer*.  ::)
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 09:05:50 pm by Circlotron »
 


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