Author Topic: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead  (Read 17244 times)

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Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« on: January 09, 2021, 10:42:53 pm »
The recent news about WhatsApp's privacy policy is concerning, particularly for me working in the cyber security field. I have been using Signal (and before that, TextSecure) for many years and have been looking for a reason to get rid of WhatsApp ever since Facebook bought it. I don't trust the company at all and there are good reasons why WhatsApp is not approved as a secure way to communicate with Australian Government agencies. Historically the only reason I kept it was because it was more popular among users when compared to Signal, but that has been changing (particularly in the last 6 months or so).

For those who don't know, beginning next month (February 2021), WhatsApp's privacy policy changes and will be forced on all users. There is no way to opt out (at the time of writing this). I'm not going to dissect every bit of their policy (you can read the entire thing at https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/privacy-policy/?lang=en but here are the key points):

From next month, WhatsApp will "share your information to help (them) operate, improve, understand, customise, support and market services". This includes: Information associated with your account, such as phone number, profile name, photo, about information, last seen information, message receipts, information about your contacts (such as phone numbers), transaction and payment data. This information is used by Facebook themselves, "other Facebook companies' and third-parties they do business with.

This might not concern you, but it concerns me.

Signal Private Messenger which is available for both iOS, Android and desktop operating systems (including Linux). It has all the features of WhatsApp (and then some), has been independently security audited (and vetted by some agencies I work with) and best of all, it even replaces your default SMS application entirely as it handles both encrypted messaging and insecure SMS messages (if you choose to or if the user does not use Signal). I personally use the one application for everything including secure voice and video calls (since 99% of my contacts also use it).

https://signal.org/en/

Highly recommended.
 
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Offline S. Petrukhin

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2021, 10:57:53 pm »
And then there's Telegram.  :) It doesn't require a stupid phone connection to the internet when using desktop.

By the way, ICQ is still working, the old QIP is connected - they do not collect any information at all and do not know the phone number.  :)
And sorry for my English.
 
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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2021, 11:40:15 pm »
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#top:

Quote
The Android app also includes third-party components which are closed-source.

Which, if you follow the trail, leads you to learn that these are Google Play Services components (https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/6568)

Is this still the case? Buggered if I'd install it if so.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 11:44:51 pm by JohnnyMalaria »
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2021, 11:41:58 pm »
Thank you for the heads up; I will investigate.

Obviously that, several years after installing such great product, the switch becomes extremely hard especially living abroad and keeping in touch with family and friends. Oh well...
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline S. Petrukhin

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2021, 12:14:06 am »
Thank you for the heads up; I will investigate.

Obviously that, several years after installing such great product, the switch becomes extremely hard especially living abroad and keeping in touch with family and friends. Oh well...

Don't be dramatic. :)
Whatsapp is not so good and it is not better than other messengers - it is not difficult to make the transition to any other. Well, a couple of minutes of excitement and discomfort from the new environment, which you may like more.

American social networks are already becoming very nasty. Their owners are taking care of their money and their well-being under serious pressure, I think.  :-//  Think of that short guy who couldn't think of a lot of money not so long ago, but he had to explain himself to toothy sharks...  :)
And sorry for my English.
 

Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2021, 01:54:55 am »
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#top:

Quote
The Android app also includes third-party components which are closed-source.

Which, if you follow the trail, leads you to learn that these are Google Play Services components (https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/6568)

Is this still the case? Buggered if I'd install it if so.

It's not as sinister as you think. Those services are required for the location sharing option (where you can send your location to other users) if you choose to use it. Signal does exactly what it says on the box. The only permissions Signal asks for are camera, contact, microphone, phone, SMS, storage, calendar and location. You can disable the ones you don't need and Signal still operates just fine (albeit without the use of those features). I've disabled calendar and location because I don't use those particular features of Signal.

Some people might not like that you need to provide your phone number and that's fine. For me, my phone number isn't a secret and it eliminates the need for yet another account/login. Essentially if you have my phone number, you can reach me (you can even deposit money into my bank account in Australia using it).

Unlike WhatsApp, Signal is not a social media platform. It's a secure communications application. So far it's the only one I'm aware of that is routinely used by three and four letter government agencies in Australia. WhatApp has been on the "must not use" list for official communications for quite some time, at least a few years already.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 02:07:03 am by Halcyon »
 
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Offline andy3055

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2021, 02:21:26 am »
Amazing! But, may be not. I was always suspicious of WhatsApp. A lot of my friends and my family (daughter and her cousins) use it. They have been pressuring me to install it at least on my wife's cell phone. Lucky my wife is not a tech savvy person! I have been resisting it as I never trusted Face Book and anything to do with it. I do have a FB account with all bogus info relating to DOB, location etc. There are pictures but then I use it only to keep in touch with my old friends who has it. I don't post anything on FB other than send the occasional message and I am seriously considering leaving FB anyway.

This is good news. I must try to steer my friends and family towards Signal although it might be a hard battle to win. May be I will wait till one of the WA users in the circle gets to learn the bitter lesson someday.  :palm:

 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2021, 02:50:19 am »
Thank you for the heads up; I will investigate.

Obviously that, several years after installing such great product, the switch becomes extremely hard especially living abroad and keeping in touch with family and friends. Oh well...

Don't be dramatic. :)
Whatsapp is not so good and it is not better than other messengers - it is not difficult to make the transition to any other. Well, a couple of minutes of excitement and discomfort from the new environment, which you may like more.
My wife and I can adapt easily to any interface thrown at us; try that with my elderly inlaws and family that live overseas and do not have me around to teach them the ropes. THAT'S what is hard to switch. 
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2021, 05:53:21 am »
Amazing! But, may be not. I was always suspicious of WhatsApp. A lot of my friends and my family (daughter and her cousins) use it.

That's the only reason I used it, was that it was popular. I never really liked it much. It's certainly better than plain old SMS, but I still never used it for anything sensitive. Mostly small-talk with friends and family.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2021, 12:47:27 pm »
Not a pleasant change but I've seen it suggested it may violate the EU's GDPR laws.

While that may not seem to affect you directly if you have contacts within the EU then it could be a problem for Facebook.

I've already installed Signal, just need to try and persuade friends, relatives etc. to install it as well.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2021, 02:32:28 pm »
Honestly, I hate WhatsApp (primarily because of its lack of an iPad version, unlike every single other communications channel I have, meaning that I can't just leave the phone in the other room, as I can when using my computer, for example).

But unfortunately, I cannot avoid it, as it's used for the class chat in school, so I would miss out on critical communications. Additionally, I use it with various family abroad who use WhatsApp exclusively because in that country, WhatsApp doesn't count towards their mobile data usage. :/
 

Offline RenThraysk

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2021, 03:00:45 pm »
Yeah, the problem was the secure messengers were developed by for profit companies leaving them vulnerable to be bought, and having their original goals subverted for the sake of profit.

WhatsApp was bought by Facebook.
Whisper Systems was bought by Twitter.

It's why Open Whisper Systems (now know as Signal Technology Foundation) was created as a non profit for TextSecure/Signal.
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2021, 04:09:50 pm »
While i have been a long time Signal user , and have spend a lot of time convincing others to use it too.
I am dissapointed that they don't seem interested in making a version for "pure linux" ... I mean a version that's not linked to your Signal on your phone.

I have a PinePhone , and had hoped that they would have ported Signal to that & Librem ... But there's just deep silence.
They seem to think That Apple IoS & Android are enough.
That's the primary reason the PP isn't my daily phone.

The Telegram messenger has been ported to PinePhone , and is working fine.
But then i have to .. Once again "beg" people to switch/install a new comms app , and i'm not sure i can convince them all.

So if you ever think about abandoning the Apple or Android universe. Don't promote Signal , but consider Telegram.

 

Offline nuclearcat

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2021, 04:32:09 pm »
While i have been a long time Signal user , and have spend a lot of time convincing others to use it too.
I am dissapointed that they don't seem interested in making a version for "pure linux" ... I mean a version that's not linked to your Signal on your phone.

I have a PinePhone , and had hoped that they would have ported Signal to that & Librem ... But there's just deep silence.
They seem to think That Apple IoS & Android are enough.
That's the primary reason the PP isn't my daily phone.

The Telegram messenger has been ported to PinePhone , and is working fine.
But then i have to .. Once again "beg" people to switch/install a new comms app , and i'm not sure i can convince them all.

So if you ever think about abandoning the Apple or Android universe. Don't promote Signal , but consider Telegram.
They keep silence on more serious issues: https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1197695344575799296
(data leak over keyboard, as i understand, warning - swearing present)
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2021, 04:32:37 pm »
So if you ever think about abandoning the Apple or Android universe. Don't promote Signal , but consider Telegram.

Believe it or not, but where I work, Telegram is the default messenger. Technicians, salesmen and the administration department.
 
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Offline nali

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2021, 04:33:00 pm »
Honestly, I hate WhatsApp (primarily because of its lack of an iPad version, unlike every single other communications channel I have, meaning that I can't just leave the phone in the other room, as I can when using my computer, for example).

Have you tried WhatsApp Web? When I have to use WA I tend to leave it open in a browser tab and just leave the phone wherever. It's quite handy as you cab cut & paste or drag n drop and plus it means I can type as fast as the young 'uns  ;D

 

Offline tooki

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2021, 04:39:03 pm »
Honestly, I hate WhatsApp (primarily because of its lack of an iPad version, unlike every single other communications channel I have, meaning that I can't just leave the phone in the other room, as I can when using my computer, for example).

Have you tried WhatsApp Web? When I have to use WA I tend to leave it open in a browser tab and just leave the phone wherever. It's quite handy as you cab cut & paste or drag n drop and plus it means I can type as fast as the young 'uns  ;D
On mobile devices, background browser tabs are completely suspended (nor would you want it any other way, as having them run in the background would decimate battery life). As such, they cannot receive messages, not that a web chat is in any way even distantly an acceptable user experience on mobile.

Additionally, could you imagine if websites were allowed to feed into your mobile device's notification stream? The potential for abuse would be staggering.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 04:40:55 pm by tooki »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2021, 04:39:19 pm »
While i have been a long time Signal user , and have spend a lot of time convincing others to use it too.
I am dissapointed that they don't seem interested in making a version for "pure linux" ... I mean a version that's not linked to your Signal on your phone.

I have a PinePhone , and had hoped that they would have ported Signal to that & Librem ... But there's just deep silence.
They seem to think That Apple IoS & Android are enough.
That's the primary reason the PP isn't my daily phone.

The Telegram messenger has been ported to PinePhone , and is working fine.
But then i have to .. Once again "beg" people to switch/install a new comms app , and i'm not sure i can convince them all.

So if you ever think about abandoning the Apple or Android universe. Don't promote Signal , but consider Telegram.
They keep silence on more serious issues: https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1197695344575799296
(data leak over keyboard, as i understand, warning - swearing present)

I don't see that it's their problem that the culture in $INSERT_COUNTRY_HERE backdoors itself. Just another Naomi rant on how everyone else is to blame for her problems, far as I can see.

I suppose they could offer a warning that they don't control the input method. But anyone who genuinely cares about their privacy should know this.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 04:40:59 pm by Monkeh »
 

Offline nali

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2021, 04:56:29 pm »
On mobile devices, background browser tabs are completely suspended (nor would you want it any other way, as having them run in the background would decimate battery life). As such, they cannot receive messages, not that a web chat is in any way even distantly an acceptable user experience on mobile.

Additionally, could you imagine if websites were allowed to feed into your mobile device's notification stream? The potential for abuse would be staggering.

I wasn't suggesting a browser on another mobile device (that would be a bit silly), I was referring to
Quote
meaning that I can't just leave the phone in the other room, as I can when using my computer, for example).
accessing it from a desktop environment.





 


Offline S. Petrukhin

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2021, 06:09:41 pm »
Honestly, I hate WhatsApp (primarily because of its lack of an iPad version, unlike every single other communications channel I have, meaning that I can't just leave the phone in the other room, as I can when using my computer, for example).

Have you tried WhatsApp Web? When I have to use WA I tend to leave it open in a browser tab and just leave the phone wherever. It's quite handy as you cab cut & paste or drag n drop and plus it means I can type as fast as the young 'uns  ;D

Any messenger has a Web interface or a Desktop application. But Whatsup, now and Viber can't work without a phone. In Telegram, you can turn off your phone and use Desktop.  :)
And sorry for my English.
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2021, 07:16:27 pm »
VSee Messenger is another viable option. It's HIPAA Compliant and used by a lot of medical providers, aid agencies, and even by NASA for ISS Astronauts' confidential calls with their families. I've been using on Windows for years and it's also available on the Google play store for android (I've never looked for Apple).

It is very good at optimising video over low bandwidth links (one reason the aid agencies use it).  All it requires is an email address, and the free version does everything you would want, including multi person video calls, and one app screen share a day (unlimited duration). You can use the same ID for both windows desktop and phone.

https://www.vsee.com/

Edit:  https://vsee.com/messenger/


(No affiliation other than satisfied user)


P.S. Its revenue stream is transparent too. It makes its money from it's corporate customers.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 07:30:35 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline vad

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2021, 07:25:15 pm »
I work at information security firm, although my position is not related to security itself.. The only messenger service that is allowed by corporate policy is Mattermost. All public messengers, including WhatsApp, Skype, Telegram are not permitted due to security concerns. When not at work, I use whatever my friends and family members are using.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2021, 08:19:15 pm »
On mobile devices, background browser tabs are completely suspended (nor would you want it any other way, as having them run in the background would decimate battery life). As such, they cannot receive messages, not that a web chat is in any way even distantly an acceptable user experience on mobile.

Additionally, could you imagine if websites were allowed to feed into your mobile device's notification stream? The potential for abuse would be staggering.

I wasn't suggesting a browser on another mobile device (that would be a bit silly), I was referring to
Quote
meaning that I can't just leave the phone in the other room, as I can when using my computer, for example).
accessing it from a desktop environment.
Please re-read my original comment. I said the problem is that WhatsApp isn't available on iPad.

I never said I couldn't access it on the computer. I can, and do, using their desktop app.

The point is, every other communication channel I use, without exception, works on my phone, iPad, and computers. Meaning that I can have any single device nearby for all those services. But no, not WhatsApp, they leave out the iPad.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2021, 10:14:13 pm »
The point is, every other communication channel I use, without exception, works on my phone, iPad, and computers. Meaning that I can have any single device nearby for all those services. But no, not WhatsApp, they leave out the iPad.

Well, damn, I never knew that, you're right, it's not even available on iPads with 4G and a SIM, I wonder what the reasoning behind that is
 
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