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Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
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rsjsouza:

--- Quote from: Ranayna on January 13, 2021, 07:32:20 am ---I don't know what news andy is referring to, but here in germany, any news regarding telegram is essentially bad news.
Noone talks about it's features or security, but every news piece talks about telegram being used by right wings, neonazis or conspiracy nutters.
--- End quote ---
Sure, if news organizations in Germany are anything like in the US, it only takes a single Twitter post decrying one or two posts on the platform for a few shady "journalists" to quickly generalize to everybody and use the maximum hyperboles possible. It gets tiring, really.


--- Quote from: Ranayna on January 13, 2021, 07:32:20 am ---I don't even want to suggest using Telegram anymore, since associations like this tend to stick and generally do not end well.

--- End quote ---
And that is how they achieve their goal to shutdown anyone, really. Just start spreading the same types of news about any other platform discussed here and the damage is done. That just happened with the Twitter competitor Parler and the racket of the Alphabet/Apple/Amazon triunvirat.
voltsandjolts:

--- Quote from: Ranayna on January 13, 2021, 07:32:20 am ---...telegram being used by right wings, neonazis or conspiracy nutters.
I don't even want to suggest using Telegram anymore, since associations like this tend to stick and generally do not end well.

--- End quote ---

Encyption is just a tool that can be used for good or evil, at the users choice.
It's not just Telegram, where did all the bad guys go after EncroPhone got broke? Signal, maybe?
If you don't want to be associated, better not use encyption.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/07/dutch-police-arrest-six-men-after-discovery-of-torture-chamber
SVFeingold:

--- Quote from: voltsandjolts on January 13, 2021, 11:20:35 am ---Just to get the facts clear; here you are talking about desktop computing. Everywhere else (mobile, datacentre, supercomputing, web servers, nas boxes, routers, embedded os) linux rules the roost.

--- End quote ---

True. My comment was specifically about the persistent maligning of the common laptop user for not switching to Linux.


--- Quote ---Blind faith is belief in the abscence of any evidence. If you choose to live that way you can, but in general life can be better if you make smarter, more informed choices. Of course, I don't mean analyse your water and all source code you use. But you can take advice from others (this forum included), evidence from several independent sources and make a more informed choice. The probablility of maker better choices is much higher that way. Of course it takes a little effort, so blind faith suits some people better.

--- End quote ---

I don't disagree. But in that case, someone using VSee because it's been deemed secure by several government organizations is hardly "blind." My point is that "I trust that this government agency made an informed decision about which encryption to use" is every bit as valid as "I trust that the city keeps the water clean." Except perhaps to those who make it a hobby to follow crypto developments, or those who test public utilities. Taking advice also requires mostly-blind faith. Unless you are a domain expert/enthusiast, you aren't really qualified to choose who to take advice from. And in that case you fall back on your other human intuitions based on your life experience. To wit: that a government agency uses X service means a lot more to the average person than some random dude on a small electronics forum saying "No X is bad use Y."

The solution - as always and ever - is to make the tools you want people to use enticing, so that people want to use them. Not to malign the ignorance of those who "take it on faith" that a popular end-to-end encrypted app is actually secure. This is what the aforementioned Linux fanboys fail to grasp. I hope the same doesn't happen with secure communication since it's far more important than which OS people use.

I don't really care that much about this...I'm happy using iMessage. Just wanted to make the point that getting preachy and elitist about encryption is not the way to get the public to start caring about it. And to be clear I'm not talking about you, I don't think you come off that way. But so many in this field do and it's to their detriment.
voltsandjolts:

--- Quote from: SVFeingold on January 13, 2021, 11:59:34 am ---... using VSee because it's been deemed secure by several government organizations is hardly "blind."

--- End quote ---

Yes, but those 'several' organisations likely went to one organisation to get one opinion, i.e. NSA, perhaps in 2009 (lets ignore conspiracy theories about encryption and NSA).

Signal source code is in the open to be analysed by anyone at anytime. There are more eyes on it.
Like these folks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55412230
Which all helps to feedback into making it better software.
Every secure app has issues to deal with. I feel more comfortable with it when its done in the open.
Enforced honesty, if you like.
RenThraysk:

--- Quote from: SVFeingold on January 13, 2021, 01:05:16 am ---These are all nice thoughts. In reality the overwhelmingly vast majority of people don't care to this extent, and certainly aren't going to spend time debating the finer points of precisely which encrypted messenger service is technically superior based on the peer-review of their open-source code on Github, or which government agencies say what about them.

This is vaguely reminiscent of the Linux fanboys being certain it's the "year of Linux" and they're finally gonna take down MS and Apple. Then as soon as they say "BUT IT'S SO EASY, all you need to do is open a command-line and apt-get..." they lose 99.9% of the public. As they've done the last 20+ years. And will continue to do for the next 20.

The truth is people care to the extent it's easy to obtain and use them. The less investment required the better. Signal does well in this regard (especially with the recent endorsement from Elon). Facebook messenger is probably fine for most people. If you are transmitting truly sensitive data, as in actual state secrets, actually classified documents, etc. then you've probably already been briefed on exactly which services are acceptable and how much jailtime you'll get if you use any others.

No state actor cares about your cat pics. Or your nudes. Or how wasted Michelle got last weekend. It's like that XKCD. Nobody is gonna build a supercomputer to crack the 4096-bit encryption to your bank account. They're just going to hit you with a wrench until you tell them the password.

Which isn't to say nobody should care. They should. But all you folks sending a deluge of requests to your friends to "use this totally secure, totally obscure open source messenger, and it's so easy! Here's a step-by-step on how to sideload the APK onto your phone" are probably just going to end up with fewer friends. If there's an existing, widely used, widely supported messenger that it perfectly fine for everything but transmitting classified info or nuclear launch codes, it's probably good enough. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. It may be a fun hobby for you, it's not for the majority of people who actually need to use it in order to start making a majority of our comms secure.

--- End quote ---

This argument is based on your privilege of living in a relatively free country.

In a country where say being gay, or atheist, or an activist will get the attention of the government and get yourself jailed or worse executed, choosing the right messenger is critical.

So no need of nonsense about state secrets or nuclear launch codes.




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