Author Topic: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead  (Read 17226 times)

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Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2021, 08:23:42 am »
 
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Offline ebastler

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2021, 10:31:56 pm »
Decided to do the right thing today: Install Signal, give it a try, start to convince others to switch. My wife and I both installed it from Apple's app store -- and we both can't even get through the registration:

Code: [Select]
SignalServiceKit.NetworkManagerError-Fehler 0.

Two separate devices; two separate networks (DSL & GSM); same result over the last 4 hours.
Sorry, Signal. That's a Fail.
 

Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2021, 10:58:48 pm »
Very unusual. I'd just try again. Perhaps network issues are preventing you from registering?
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2021, 11:17:00 pm »
The point is, every other communication channel I use, without exception, works on my phone, iPad, and computers. Meaning that I can have any single device nearby for all those services. But no, not WhatsApp, they leave out the iPad.

Well, damn, I never knew that, you're right, it's not even available on iPads with 4G and a SIM, I wonder what the reasoning behind that is
Similar “reasoning” to Netflix and others not releasing certain videos in certain locations while the rest of the world has it. They just like to get up your nose, I think.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2021, 11:27:50 pm »
In case anyone is unaware, Signal experienced a vast increase in the number of users the past few days (tens of millions) and their servers collapsed under the strain. They are  trying to restore service, but they have to greatly increase capacity to cope with the influx.

Probably there will be updates here: https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1350118809860886528
 

Offline RenThraysk

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2021, 11:32:04 pm »
Signal is having a massive influx in new users, and have been having to add more servers daily. And today even that broke.
 
Think the rate is (or was) 4,900 new registrations per minute.



Edit: Ah too slow getting the image... crossposted.

PS: Got to be a lot of people leaving WhatsApp, as they have delayed their planned policy changes.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 11:37:14 pm by RenThraysk »
 

Offline SVFeingold

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2021, 11:52:56 pm »
PS: Got to be a lot of people leaving WhatsApp, as they have delayed their planned policy changes.

I really don't get these policy changes. What are these execs thinking?

How about this: "We've updated our policy to clearly signal that we're going to fuck off and leave our users to communicate in peace, and we'll figure out another way to market our app besides requesting access to and ownership of everything on your phone."

How's that for a policy change? Maybe try it out. I feel no sympathy for these companies if/when they go under.
 

Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2021, 01:25:07 am »
PS: Got to be a lot of people leaving WhatsApp, as they have delayed their planned policy changes.

Millions upon millions. Too little, too late. This move, whether they choose to back-peddle now or not has generated serious distrust in Facebook (a company that already had dubious privacy policies).

I will never go back. I never really liked it in the first place. I only installed it because many of my contacts used it and it was more secure than plain SMS. This is no longer the case.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2021, 01:29:17 am »
it was more secure than plain SMS. This is no longer the case.

[citation needed]
 

Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2021, 01:31:09 am »
it was more secure than plain SMS. This is no longer the case.

[citation needed]

Sorry, I'll clarify, it's the case that most of my contacts now use Signal, so I have no need for Whatsapp.

I wasn't suggesting that SMS is secure.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2021, 01:40:06 am »
Too little, too late. This move, whether they choose to back-peddle now or not has generated serious distrust in Facebook (a company that already had dubious privacy policies).

I will never go back. I never really liked it in the first place. I only installed it because many of my contacts used it and it was more secure than plain SMS. This is no longer the case.
Facebook put a lot of money into WhatsApp, but aren't able to make money from it. What they have done so far clearly hasn't created the revenue streams they'd hoped for. They are probably at the make or break point now. Either they come though this with quite a lot of subscribers intact, and sufficient revenue, or they give up.

The problem is Signal is being run as a charity. That's not sustainable. Its very unclear where things go moving forwards.
 

Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2021, 01:54:20 am »
Too little, too late. This move, whether they choose to back-peddle now or not has generated serious distrust in Facebook (a company that already had dubious privacy policies).

I will never go back. I never really liked it in the first place. I only installed it because many of my contacts used it and it was more secure than plain SMS. This is no longer the case.
Facebook put a lot of money into WhatsApp, but aren't able to make money from it. What they have done so far clearly hasn't created the revenue streams they'd hoped for. They are probably at the make or break point now. Either they come though this with quite a lot of subscribers intact, and sufficient revenue, or they give up.

The problem is Signal is being run as a charity. That's not sustainable. Its very unclear where things go moving forwards.

Yes you're right, things could change, but for the time being, for me, it's the best available platform and it has been that way for several years now.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2021, 03:22:14 am »
Facebook put a lot of money into WhatsApp, but aren't able to make money from it. What they have done so far clearly hasn't created the revenue streams they'd hoped for. They are probably at the make or break point now. Either they come though this with quite a lot of subscribers intact, and sufficient revenue, or they give up.
I do not believe so. They are bringing businesses and payments to Whatsapp, this alone can generate a lot of revenue. Let businesses pay for doing business. But no, the greedy owners also want to collect and share the businesses' customers (you) data including plain text messages and then push ad garbage on you, charging advertisers as well. Tripple profit.
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Offline nuclearcat

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2021, 08:51:38 am »
The problem of Whatsapp - they did their best to kill any attempts of automation. I remember how people reverse engineered their API, wrote python library, and many used it for monitoring bots for telecom, automation control, shops, and then BOOM, whatsapp started to permanently ban phone numbers as punishment, for using these "illegal" libraries.
Then after Telegram started to make dedicated business API, Facebook woke up and created contraption called Whatsapp business, but the API for it was clearly written by a chicken, with a left paw. Its mostly unusable beyond "hello world" examples. Now they want monetize, haha. Good luck. Whoever wanted automation, integration with business processes - moved elsewhere. And with current lunatic Facebook policy, censorship - it is just suicide to depend on their products.

Telegram from day one created lot of API libraries, tools, bots there is tons of alternative clients as wells. They can monetize in click of fingers by adding some useful API for shops, automation, etc.

Signal, as said before, marketed as nonprofit, tool for dissidents, now have to scale to much larger userbase. No idea how they will keep going money wise.
And btw about privacy. Signal was positioned before as dissident tool, and same as Tor, as soon as you start using it, you are on watchlist in many countries. Same time signal restriction bypass techniques are quite primitive. Signal tried to develop federation and failed. Signal "supposed to be dissident friendly" service is easily detectable. And all their efforts more looks like government employees who work from 9pm till 5pm and wont move finger beyond their responsibility.

Telegram on same side successfully won epic battle with Russian censorship. Russian government wrecked half of their internet trying to block telegram, Telegram kept service alive, fighting 24/7, and after Durov team developed easy to install proxy software that is not detectable by DPI, all blocking efforts because useless. This was quite creative.
 

Offline SVFeingold

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2021, 09:28:03 am »
Signal was positioned before as dissident tool, and same as Tor, as soon as you start using it, you are on watchlist in many countries.

This point is often missed when discussing different encrypted communication methods. In places like that no government is going to debate with you about the purported contents of your messages. Using an encrypted chat program? You must be a spy. Have fun arguing from prison.
 
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Offline Zucca

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2021, 12:34:26 pm »
Telegram:

- pinned Messasge
- sharing live position
- create pool questions
- EDIT sent messages to correct typo mistake (why not all of them has this basic and simple feature?  :palm:)
- create channel group

Signal is more secure hands down and no further questions ask, but I prefer to have more features on toys.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 12:40:17 pm by Zucca »
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Offline RenThraysk

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2021, 01:56:43 pm »
PS: Got to be a lot of people leaving WhatsApp, as they have delayed their planned policy changes.

Millions upon millions. Too little, too late. This move, whether they choose to back-peddle now or not has generated serious distrust in Facebook (a company that already had dubious privacy policies).

I will never go back. I never really liked it in the first place. I only installed it because many of my contacts used it and it was more secure than plain SMS. This is no longer the case.

Facebook having spent $19 billion on purchasing WhatsApp, only to realise they can't monetise it somehow... does make me smile. :)
The reason WhatsApp got big (must have peeked around 2 billion users) was that it was free (or cheaper) alternative to SMS, back when telcos charged for them.
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #92 on: January 16, 2021, 02:03:17 pm »
I've now had Signal installed and in use for several days and here's a (hopefully unbiased), mostly issues based, comparison against VSee after usage between three family members, phones and desktop ...

Signal:

Security - Apparently the best, but have you actually studied the source code or encryption? If not, then blind faith.
Identity - Phone number based.

Android App UI...
 - Mostly ok and similar to Whatsapp.
- Notification ticks seem intermittent, sometimes delivered but only shows one tick.
- One case of application hanging (Pixel 4A). Messages shown as delivered (2 ticks) but never arrived or notified, Required Force Stop and run again.
- Messaging sluggish compared to VSee.
- Video quality poorer than VSee.

Windows App...

- Verging on unusable.
- Startup is slow.
- If messaging has been happening between phones since it was last run, it can take several minutes downloading messages before you can do anything.
- When using a webcam (the reason for using the desktop version in the first place), it only sends a narrow vertical central strip of the camera image to the phone, not the full 4:3 image. There does not seem to be any setting to correct this.
- The video that is transmitted and received was poorer quality (detail and smoothness) than VSee.
- Running on two laptops last night, it persistently reported 'Disconnected' for several hours. Pushing the connect button said unable to connect - check for network problems. All other web connected apps (email, browser) continued to work fine.


VSee:

Security - Blind faith, based on company's core business and corporate users.
Identity - Email address based.

Android App UI...

- More minimalist compared to Signal and Whatsapp, but clean. For instance, no camera Icon, so if you want to send a photo then you have to take it separately and 'Share' it into VSee therefore less spontaneous.
- Displays a 'Logging in' screen for a couple of seconds when you first open it.
- Fast messaging response compared to Signal, similar to WhatsApp.
- On one phone (Pixel 4A again) it often does not wake the phone with a notification leading to missed messages (messages are delivered). Suspect this is due to Google applying more 'power saving' functions to improve the Pixel's less than stellar battery life. No problems with notifications on other phones (Nokia and Samsung).
- Decent video.

Windows App...

- Plays happily between phone and desktop using the same email ID. No delays on startup or message loading issues.
- Video quality superior to Signal (presumably due to better compression). Can't compare with WhatsApp because desktop app doesn't work on Windows 7.
- Occasional 'Mickey Mouse' audio (Desktop to phone) when starting a call, requiring hang up and re-call. Always seems to work the second attempt. When calling desktop to desktop, the Mickey Mouse issue can happen in either direction, but again is successful on retry. Does not occur mid-call
- Fast delivery of messages, with simultaneous notification on phone and desktop.
- No issues with displaying full webcam resolution.
- Can drag and drop large files for quick transfer (haven't tried this on Signal desktop).

Anyway, these are my findings. I've tried to stay purely factual rather than opinion in the comparison. Maybe I'm missing some things, but this comparison is based on our actual needs - Messaging and video between phones, and importantly, video conversation with distant family member using a laptop and webcam for the comfort of a big screen, being able to sit comfortably side by side on the sofa.

I hope this helps somebody. At this point I am reluctant to uninstall either app (or WhatApp) until I know if Signal is likely to improve in the short term. I haven't tried Telegram, but from what I've read here and in the media, I don't think I will, I don't need any further bells and whistles.
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #93 on: January 16, 2021, 03:44:45 pm »
You hit Signal at its peak of new users massive subscription surge, which may explain the slowness. Try in a couple weeks or in a month.
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Offline coppice

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #94 on: January 16, 2021, 03:59:23 pm »
You hit Signal at its peak of new users massive subscription surge, which may explain the slowness. Try in a couple weeks or in a month.
In the last few days Signal on my android phone has given "network unavailable" a few times. I assume its just overload as they adapt to new demand.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #95 on: January 16, 2021, 05:41:15 pm »
Yes, it does seem to be something of a surge:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55684595.

... an example of how poor messaging (pun intended) can really screw your product!

I guess I'll wait a while and see how things settle out with the increased loading.  Meanwhile I still have the option of bravely following the path less travelled.  :)


P.S. Meanwhile, from another BBC news story (which I won't link for obvious reasons), it a appears that certain US 'radical elements' have flocked to Telegram.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 05:51:44 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #96 on: January 16, 2021, 05:50:34 pm »
Another Telegram user here.  I've never used Signal or WhatsApp so I can't comment on what's better.  However I can say that Telegrams API is very powerful and integrates with Home Assistant, various online communities like PinePhone, FOSSA Satellite automated data and other projects.

Key for me was native Linux support which it of-course has.
 
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Offline IanJ

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2021, 06:25:22 pm »
Got rid of whattsapp last year after finding out 3rd parties can spy on your online status, even detecting if you are chatting to another person.

Dunno if Signal and Telegram have the same problem.

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Offline Bud

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2021, 07:35:47 pm »
P.S. Meanwhile, from another BBC news story (which I won't link for obvious reasons), it a appears that certain US 'radical elements' have flocked to Telegram.

That is their (BBC's) worst nightmare, isn't it  :-DD , people who they can't reach to brainwash.
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Online HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Delete WhatsApp, use Signal Private Messenger instead
« Reply #99 on: January 17, 2021, 01:10:51 am »
You hit Signal at its peak of new users massive subscription surge, which may explain the slowness. Try in a couple weeks or in a month.
In the last few days Signal on my android phone has given "network unavailable" a few times. I assume its just overload as they adapt to new demand.

Yep, the uptake of new users on Signal blew even their most optimistic projections out of the water. The service has been struggling over the last few days, but they guys have been busy staging more infrastructure to support the massive increase in users. I'm having intermittent issues with delivery of messages however for the most part, they are working. I expect things to go back to normal within a week or so. This kind of thing is expected on any service.
 


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