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General => General Chat => Topic started by: ehughes on March 02, 2020, 01:46:15 pm

Title: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: ehughes on March 02, 2020, 01:46:15 pm
Who would have thought this would have shown up 10 minutes from where I live.  Practically brand new!


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2180147438757879/?ref=product_details (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2180147438757879/?ref=product_details)

Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Johnny10 on March 02, 2020, 02:07:24 pm
So Cool!
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Gyro on March 02, 2020, 02:07:51 pm
Wasn't there someone on ebay selling Flux Capacitors and time circuits?  ;D

At 1200 miles it ought to still be capable of reaching 88MPH.  >:D
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Stray Electron on March 02, 2020, 04:18:13 pm
Who would have thought this would have shown up 10 minutes from where I live.  Practically brand new!


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2180147438757879/?ref=product_details (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2180147438757879/?ref=product_details)

  1218 miles and they're only asking $58,000 for it? It sounds like one of those "Too Good to be True" deals.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: andy2000 on March 02, 2020, 04:28:40 pm
Small world, I used to live a 10 minute walk from there. 
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: maginnovision on March 02, 2020, 04:52:26 pm
I won't buy a car that hasn't been driven, especially if it's 30+ years old. Low mileage chassis is nice but low mileage drivetrain way less so.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Johnny10 on March 02, 2020, 04:57:08 pm
If this was after Doc made it a hover car it wouldn't show that many miles.

I mean they mostly just drove it to the mall.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Benta on March 02, 2020, 05:48:20 pm
The cool thing about the DMC-12 is that it's built from stainless. But the engine is atrocious, the worst V6 ever made.

Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: edy on March 02, 2020, 06:44:28 pm
There is a documentary about the DeLorean... something about it having the crappiest brakes and unsafe car, etc. I mean they look awesome and have a huge nostalgia going for them... much like the Lamborghini Countach. Who wouldn't drool over either of those cars????  :-DD  But yeah they may not be the best quality engineering for the buck. There is a place that builds *new* DeLoreans now, and there may be some coming:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a30641441/new-delorean-dmc-12-confirmed/ (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a30641441/new-delorean-dmc-12-confirmed/)

As for the price, $58,000 US is a lot of money. Take a look at some the listings on DeLorean's site:

https://www.delorean.com/inventory-used.htm (https://www.delorean.com/inventory-used.htm)

You can find a bunch with low mileage for under $50,000.

Other than the look/style, mechanically those cars were atrocious. If they do decide to bring them back, it would make sense to upgrade it and make it all electric like these guys did with this conversion.... now that is something that would be worthwhile. Upgrade the brakes and give it an acceleration that actually matched the futuristic look of the car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6Lz-s9SE8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6Lz-s9SE8)

Now the Vector W-8.... that was a car... just look at the computer/electronics in that thing, would make you salivate:

https://www.supercars.net/blog/vector-w8/ (https://www.supercars.net/blog/vector-w8/)

(https://nthimage.com/Detroit/photoshoots/Vector_W8_15_S2/Vector_W8_int_2.jpg)

(https://nthimage.com/Detroit/photoshoots/Vector_W8_15_S2/Vector_W8_int_1.jpg)
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Gyro on March 02, 2020, 06:46:25 pm
The cool thing about the DMC-12 is that it's built from stainless. But the engine is atrocious, the worst V6 ever made.

Well, stainless steel sheet on top of fibreglass, on an ordinary steel chassis.  ;)
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Fraser on March 02, 2020, 08:02:26 pm
A classic case of a Sheep in Wolfs clothing  :-DD

My neighbour owned one. He sold it as dreaming of owning a film icon vs real life ownership were very different experiences, and not in a good way :(

Fraser
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: edy on March 02, 2020, 08:30:18 pm
From an economic standpoint, the best time to have owned a DeLorean is.... NEVER.  :-DD  The price in 1981 was $25,000, which sounds like a great deal... until you realize that is equivalent to about $70,000 2019 dollars. Given you can buy a practically mint low-mileage DeLorean today for about $50,000, I wouldn't say that was an incredibly good investment for a "classic car" (considering your other options). Then again, most cars do depreciate... and people don't own DeLorean's for economically-sound reasons alone.

There are however a number of other cars out there that are worth quite a bit more today. A quick search at movie cars shows the 1977 Pontiac Trans Am Firebird (used in "Smokey and the Bandit" movie) was about $5,500 in 1977 dollars, which makes it around $23,000 in 2020 dollars. Good luck finding any that cheap today... they are well above that value and for an actual muscle-car that could do the business.

(https://photos.classiccars.com/cc-temp/listing/130/1646/18778078-1977-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-srcset-xl.jpg)

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/1301646/1977-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-for-sale-in-cadillac-michigan-49601 (https://classiccars.com/listings/view/1301646/1977-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-for-sale-in-cadillac-michigan-49601)

This is practically a steal, look at the interior, likely owned by a lady driver:

https://www.gentrylane.com/s/domestic-inventory/1978-pontiac-firebird-trans-am (https://www.gentrylane.com/s/domestic-inventory/1978-pontiac-firebird-trans-am)

(https://www.gentrylane.com/s/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/78_AM-01-900x675.jpg)

(https://www.gentrylane.com/s/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/78_AM-06.jpg)
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 02, 2020, 10:27:58 pm
Think that's the best pics I've ever seen of one, can really see the shine of the stainless.  That is one skookum looking car.   If I had the money, the room (big heated garage), and time, it would be awesome to get one and convert it into an EV.     From my understanding there is a company that still makes them. Not cheap though.

My dad used to be a salesman and they had one in the show room, there was a sign that said not to touch because finger prints would show up easily on it.  One guy was asking what it's made of and my dad said something to the effect "stainless steel, just like your kitchen sink at home" and the guy was "what were you doing in my house?".  :-DD 
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 02, 2020, 10:37:52 pm
A friend of mine had a DeLorean for a while, he's always buying and selling weird random cars, fixes them up, drives them around for a while, some he keeps, others he sells or trades later. Anyway he said the DeLorean was somewhat disappointing, it was underpowered and not very exciting to drive, not very practical either however it sure does look cool. Those PRV V6 engines were dogs, Volvo used them for a while and their reputation was marred for many years after that. They built some really excellent engines of their own but chose some of the worst 3rd party engines they could find for some models. The V6 was thirstier, less powerful, less reliable and harder to work on than their turbo 4 cylinder. The first time I saw one I thought some incompetent gearhead had done a ridiculous engine swap, the thing sat far forward with a huge gap between the engine and firewall.

I don't think anybody buys a vintage 1200 mile car to drive it, that DeLorean will be a garage or trailer queen.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: TheSteve on March 02, 2020, 11:59:37 pm
I loved my DeLorean. Eventually I'd like to have one again. I like the 81 more then the 82 or 83 though. You do certainly want a manual if you get one.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/delorean-dmc-12-w-1200-miles/?action=dlattach;attach=942728;image)
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Excavatoree on March 03, 2020, 12:25:07 am
[
  1218 miles and they're only asking $58,000 for it? It sounds like one of those "Too Good to be True" deals.

It was only driven from time to time.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: sassywren on March 03, 2020, 01:58:27 pm
I believe it was Top Gear who did an episode on the DeLorean, and after watching it, I had no more interest in ever owning one  :-DD

My recollection is that the drivetrain was criticized from many different angles - underpowered, not forward looking in any way (like the rest of the car was supposed to be), etc...

I believe they even did a 0-88mph test?  Now I have to look for this episode :D
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Mr. Scram on March 03, 2020, 03:00:46 pm
It seems horrible to own such a low mileage car. You can't quite drive it around as you'll ruin the one thing that makes it unique and valuable. The prudent thing is to keep it pristine and that's not that thrilling.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: sassywren on March 03, 2020, 03:13:16 pm
It seems horrible to own such a low mileage car. You can't quite drive it around as you'll ruin the one thing that makes it unique and valuable. The prudent thing is to keep it pristine and that's not that thrilling.

It only has value to collectors. 

Age is just as hard on many of the vehicle's systems as miles.  All of the rubber/plastic/etc in the vehicle is still outgassing and will start to fail soon if they haven't started to already - Maybe one of the reasons it isn't driven much!  The engine/transmission seals have a very finite lifespan, measured in time, same goes for the rubber suspension bushings, seals in the shocks/struts, etc.  This is a difficult concept to explain to sellers when you find these guys who have this 20 year old car that has "only 60,000 miles on it!" and they are treating it like a new car.  Explaining to them why they won't be able to sell it for the ridiculous prices that some of them ask is nearly impossible, they just won't hear it  :-DD

I have never seen the point in preserving a vehicle like this unless it's for a museum :)
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: I wanted a rude username on March 03, 2020, 11:12:54 pm
sassywren (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=649628)? Is this history's most obvious sockpuppet account (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=648050) or what?  ;D
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: edy on March 04, 2020, 12:00:10 am
If I had the money, I'd invest it in a "DeLorean'd up" Tesla CyberTruck.  :-DD

I think the next Back To The Future reboots (you know they are coming) will probably feature CyberTrucks:


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/R-63xaZ9sd_PYm760ND4ENmPI-gNLRsTIYBzqIswoX78LykhpOTo4cm2shHXHd7Ziv6aOTkGJu_krS4wOp31H68QvyuP7mHKzMMIhymMa-YjBcW56ucjqUZbsQa8M_UP)


Apparently Elon Musk tweeted that the CyberTruck was in fact partly influenced by the look of his Lotus S1 Espirit (the one featured in the James Bond film) although you'd think the choice of sheet metal finish was a DeLorean inspiration. Who knows... maybe a combination of both:

(https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2017/4/27/1/9/a/19aa9e8a-2b3b-11e7-8e8a-474e4a441955.jpg)

Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: TheSteve on March 04, 2020, 12:17:43 am
Giorgetto Giugiaro did design the body style of the Esprit and the DeLorean. The DeLorean also had a Lotus designed double Y frame, so it is all pretty similar.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 04, 2020, 12:20:27 am
Dave is probably going to kick my ass but I still think the time machine DeLoreans are as cliche as General Lee chargers. Love the movie, loved the show when I was a kid, but the cars have been done, and done some more, it's nice to see a nice stock restoration once in a while or some other customized project.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: I wanted a rude username on March 04, 2020, 12:35:37 am
Can't kick your arse for stating an objective truth.  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/2S3tO.jpg?fb)
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 04, 2020, 02:01:49 am
I did hear they were actually crappy in terms of performance, but if I bought one, it would probably be a project car to eventually do an EV conversion. You don't need a big battery pack since you can just keep it charged with the flux capacitor. :D

I kind of need a nice big heated garage, the money, and skills first though. :P
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: maginnovision on March 04, 2020, 02:06:09 am
I had an 84 Toyota Celica supra that would crush deloreans. When I got rid of it I thought to get one but went with a 95 M3 for an upgrade instead.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 04, 2020, 03:42:57 am
The bar is low for performance. The engine was something like 150HP and stainless is heavy. In a race between a DeLorean and a Prius I'm honestly not sure what I'd put my money on. The DeLorean looks amazing though so it definitely has that going for it.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: TheSteve on March 04, 2020, 04:36:20 am
Two twin turbo DMC12's(VIN 502 and 530) were made before the companies demise - they solved the power issue and most likely would have gone into production had the company survived.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 04, 2020, 06:25:52 am
That sounds like exactly what the car needed, would have been fun to take one of those for a spin.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: frogg on March 04, 2020, 04:59:06 pm
IMHO a car best enjoyed by letting someone else own it. A Faberge egg with 4 wheels, to be owned by people who collect other Faberge eggs with 4 wheels.

The coffee table book, "DeLorean - Celebrating the Impossible" is significantly cheaper and captures in photos the best part of the uniqueness of the DeLorean - its story.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: SiliconWizard on March 04, 2020, 06:53:26 pm
The bar is low for performance. The engine was something like 150HP and stainless is heavy. In a race between a DeLorean and a Prius I'm honestly not sure what I'd put my money on. The DeLorean looks amazing though so it definitely has that going for it.

It was certainly on the low side for a car branded as a "sports car", but not that awful either. Weight was ~1200 kg, which was a bit heavy at the time, but by today's standard, it's almost "light". A typical Prius IV is actually heavier than this, with lower max. power. Of course, mileage has just nothing to do between the two, with the Prius being at least 5 times less hungry or even less.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: boffin on March 04, 2020, 07:08:54 pm

There are however a number of other cars out there that are worth quite a bit more today. A quick search at movie cars shows the 1977 Pontiac Trans Am Firebird (used in "Smokey and the Bandit" movie) was about $5,500 in 1977 dollars, which makes it around $23,000 in 2020 dollars. Good luck finding any that cheap today... they are well above that value and for an actual muscle-car that could do the business.


LOL !

...
early W72 cars came with the standard 180 hp air cleaner. Pontiac offered the T/A 400 cu in (6.6 L) with a single 4-barrel Rochester Quadrajet carburetor RPO W72 rated at 200 bhp (203 PS; 149 kW) at 3600 rpm and a maximum torque of 325 lb⋅ft (441 N⋅m) at 2400 rpm, as opposed to the regular 6.6 Litre 400 (RPO L78) rated at 180 hp (134 kW).
...


200hp in a car that weighed two tons.  That's not a sports car; the power to weight ratio is similar to that of a '71 Datsun 510  (just over 1 ton, 96hp).  Of course in a race the Transam would be hampered by the poor handling, and the Datsun with a fully independent suspension would run rings around it.


Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: TheSteve on March 04, 2020, 07:11:13 pm
It was also sad that back in 81 they couldn't have the speedo go past 85 MPH - how Marty got it up to 88 we'll never know...
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: SiliconWizard on March 04, 2020, 07:26:36 pm
It was also sad that back in 81 they couldn't have the speedo go past 85 MPH - how Marty got it up to 88 we'll never know...

I didnt know that about the speedo, but the car itself had an effective max speed of ~200 km/h (about 125 mph), so reaching 88 was definitely no big deal. And for the fun story, IIRC the DMC that was used in Back to the future had custom instruments anyway.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 04, 2020, 07:28:03 pm
That brief law always makes me laugh. I remember reading a few years ago that the woman who created the law still believes it saved lives. I have a hard time believing that anyone is going to believe that their car won't go faster than the speedometer. When we were young and invincible my friend had a car with a 85 mph speedo and we would bury the needle and see how long it took to come down off the peg. If anything it encouraged speeding.

Regarding performance, I looked and in the US the DeLorean was only 130HP. 0-60 tested at around 10.5 seconds with a manual so it was slower than a non-intercooled Volvo turbo wagon of the same era.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: TheSteve on March 04, 2020, 07:36:54 pm
Yep, it wasn't quite the vision that John DeLorean had. Had the company survived though I have no doubt the next car would have improved quite a bit. I enjoyed driving mine on sunny days and didn't really feel I needed more power. Of course I was always pretty paranoid someone would ding a body panel.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 04, 2020, 07:43:27 pm
I'm sure it would have evolved into something pretty awesome.

It's a shame that suffocating over-regulation has beaten all the uniqueness and innovation out of the car industry. I doubt we will ever again see the small car companies producing unique innovative vehicles like we had up into the 80s. I've long thought we should have an exempt class of cars not required to comply to the bucket list of mandatory safety features without having to exploit loopholes like having only three wheels to legally be classified as a motorcycle.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: SiliconWizard on March 04, 2020, 07:49:13 pm
I think it was more of a concept car than anything else anyway. Raw power was not the main point at all (but yes they were working on a much more powerful version...)
IMO the vision was definitely futuristic - departing from anything that had been done before, even using big and hungry engines in sports cars, which were still the norm at the time. In that period (late 70s, early 80s), DeLorean was not the only one designing a "sportish" car with a comparatively smaller engine than usual and breakthroughs in design. My opinion is that the relative low power was even more of a feature than a problem, at least initially. The fact it didn't quite meet its market is not just because of that anyway, and that can happen to any company.

I have never had a chance to drive one, but that would certainly be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: boffin on March 04, 2020, 08:12:16 pm
It was also sad that back in 81 they couldn't have the speedo go past 85 MPH - how Marty got it up to 88 we'll never know...

The US models (like all US cars of the day) were sold with spedos that only went to 85MPH.  Even Ferrari <LOL>

For the BttF they repainted the dial to go from 15 to 95, instead of 5 to 85.

Compare Doc's with the stock DMC12
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: TheSteve on March 04, 2020, 09:02:31 pm
Yep, there were several different mods and new gauge faces to update the speedo. There was also a true Canadian version of the car made that had metric as the primary measurement and they went to a higher gauge top speed.
Another regulation that hurt the look from factory was the minimum front bumper height. The original design had a lower nose. Most of the cars today have had shorter front springs installed.
Here is a short video of my car that was made by the new owner right after I sold it to him(he is named Steve as well).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udapWdLf784 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udapWdLf784)
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Mr. Scram on March 05, 2020, 06:22:33 am
I'm sure it would have evolved into something pretty awesome.

It's a shame that suffocating over-regulation has beaten all the uniqueness and innovation out of the car industry. I doubt we will ever again see the small car companies producing unique innovative vehicles like we had up into the 80s. I've long thought we should have an exempt class of cars not required to comply to the bucket list of mandatory safety features without having to exploit loopholes like having only three wheels to legally be classified as a motorcycle.
While there are definitely various examples of less successful regulation, that "over-regulation" has gradually and consistently lead to dwindling roads deaths over the years. This has been discussed a few times before but you seem to insist on sticking to the same narrative because you like old cars better.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 05, 2020, 07:08:00 am
While there are definitely various examples of less successful regulation, that "over-regulation" has gradually and consistently lead to dwindling roads deaths over the years. This has been discussed a few times before but you seem to insist on sticking to the same narrative because you like old cars better.

Well I'm sorry that you are unable to choose one of these safer cars for yourself without someone forcing that choice for you but I wonder why it bothers you so much that others may be able to make that choice  themselves? Are you ok with the fact that I can buy a motorcycle or a 3 wheeled "car" that bypasses those regulations or do you think those should be abolished as well in the name of safety? Frankly I don't care about overall death rates on the highways, I've chosen to drive a safe car because safety is something I value, others may have different priorities and if I lived somewhere without such horrid traffic I'd be a lot more comfortable driving a smaller, lighter less safe car. I don't need a mandatory list of safety features, unlike you, I don't need someone to make that choice for me. I'm fully capable of deciding for myself. 
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Refrigerator on March 05, 2020, 02:24:49 pm
I had an 84 Toyota Celica supra that would crush deloreans. When I got rid of it I thought to get one but went with a 95 M3 for an upgrade instead.
Walking at a moderate pace would also crush a DeLorean  ^-^
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: boffin on March 05, 2020, 05:37:13 pm
I'm sure it would have evolved into something pretty awesome.

It's a shame that suffocating over-regulation has beaten all the uniqueness and innovation out of the car industry. I doubt we will ever again see the small car companies producing unique innovative vehicles like we had up into the 80s. I've long thought we should have an exempt class of cars not required to comply to the bucket list of mandatory safety features without having to exploit loopholes like having only three wheels to legally be classified as a motorcycle.
While there are definitely various examples of less successful regulation, that "over-regulation" has gradually and consistently lead to dwindling roads deaths over the years. This has been discussed a few times before but you seem to insist on sticking to the same narrative because you like old cars better.

And let's not forget the 'over-regulation' that made Los Angeles' air actually breathable.  As a small child I lived in LA, and they would broadcast "smog alert status" on the radio.

Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 05, 2020, 06:08:53 pm
I'm not talking about emissions regulations. I'm quite ok with requiring fuel injection and catalytic converters. The former is an improvement over carburetors in every way, the latter is a passive device that has no real negative aspects aside from cost. It's the safety mandates that bug me, it's an enormous list of features that cars are required to have with no room to question whether the feature is really necessary for a particular car. Then we add layer upon layer of band aids to patch the deficiencies created by earlier band aids. The result is that cars have become extremely bloated and incredibly expensive to repair. It's no longer possible to build an elegantly simple car, but there are loopholes like giving it only 3 wheels. Having one less wheel certainly doesn't make the car any safer, but it does allow it to be registered as a motorcycle which is exempt from most of the safety mandates. So why not have an exempt class of four wheeled cars? Like buying a motorcycle, those of us who get them know what we're getting.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 05, 2020, 07:55:14 pm
Overregulation seems to be a rampant problem in general really.  It makes everything more complicated and more expensive than it has to be.     Some regulations are good, but too many are not.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: edy on March 05, 2020, 08:11:40 pm
That's why the Tesla Cybertruck broke the internet. It goes so bat-sh&t crazy out of the typical truck and car design that it makes people either love it or hate it. But there is a method to the madness...

Apparently the body panels are made of 30-times cold-rolled stainless steel that is hard to form with any stamp machine so they instead use the BRUTALISM-design style of flat angular panels to minimize the number of pieces needed to assemble. Also, the rigidity makes the car exoskeleton structurally integral to the strength of the car, not your typical chassis.

If I had the money I'd be all over buying Tesla, but can't yet afford it unfortunately. The DeLorean should be rebooted by Tesla as an all-electric more car-like form of the Cybertruck... called the Cybercar.

Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: Gyro on March 05, 2020, 08:13:11 pm
Overregulation seems to be a rampant problem in general really.  It makes everything more complicated and more expensive than it has to be.     Some regulations are good, but too many are not.

I'm sure Boeing would happily agree.  >:D
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: angrybird on March 05, 2020, 09:29:16 pm
That's why the Tesla Cybertruck broke the internet. It goes so bat-sh&t crazy out of the typical truck and car design that it makes people either love it or hate it. But there is a method to the madness...

Apparently the body panels are made of 30-times cold-rolled stainless steel that is hard to form with any stamp machine so they instead use the BRUTALISM-design style of flat angular panels to minimize the number of pieces needed to assemble. Also, the rigidity makes the car exoskeleton structurally integral to the strength of the car, not your typical chassis.

If I had the money I'd be all over buying Tesla, but can't yet afford it unfortunately. The DeLorean should be rebooted by Tesla as an all-electric more car-like form of the Cybertruck... called the Cybercar.

I would love a tesla too, but there's that whole "1/10th the usefulness of a normal car, at best" thing that keeps me from doing it :-\

Test drove a model S, they are fast, but you can't take his car camping... You can't drive to the grandparents on the other side of the state...  You can't do most of the things that I do with my cars...  Until this changes, these battery powered cars are good for the metro areas only!
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: edy on March 05, 2020, 09:50:57 pm
You can't drive to the grandparents on the other side of the state...  You can't do most of the things that I do with my cars...  Until this changes, these battery powered cars are good for the metro areas only!

Surely there must be a way to throw a diesel-powered generator on the bed of that Cybertruck and use it to range-extend the vehicle. I have no idea what the efficiency of that would be but perhaps someone with gas-generator experience knows how much charging can be done per volume of fuel, and what size generator you would need to keep up with the current drawn from the battery. In a pinch, you would never be out of juice... no more range anxiety. And when you can charge up from the grid you do that.

I'm guessing running the Tesla (or DeLorean) on the fuel-powered electric generator wouldn't be as efficient as directly driving a car on fuel. Then again, you would be charging up batteries with it so whether you are moving or standing still, that generator will always be going towards charging you up which can allow you to use that energy later (again assuming you pick a generator with an output greater than you are consuming as you drive the vehicle).

Any back-of-the-envelope calculations by someone who knows the output of a generator and the fuel used per kWh of electricity produced? Apparently Tesla batteries have somewhere between 60-100 kWh capacity. I'm looking at a 2200 Watt generator on Amazon and it says something like this:

Truepower technology provides clean, stable power ideal for sensitive electronics, tools and appliances while the 1.2 gallon fuel tank allows 10.75 hours of run time at 25-Percent load.

So does that mean 25% load on a 2200 W generator is 550 W? So it could deliver 550W for 10.75 h on a 1.2 gallon fuel tank? How does this translate to trying to charge a Tesla? Apparently it can take up to 4 full days to charge up a Tesla fully on 120V outlet.

Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: angrybird on March 06, 2020, 12:37:01 am
You can't drive to the grandparents on the other side of the state...  You can't do most of the things that I do with my cars...  Until this changes, these battery powered cars are good for the metro areas only!

Surely there must be a way to throw a diesel-powered generator on the bed of that Cybertruck and use it to range-extend the vehicle. I have no idea what the efficiency of that would be but perhaps someone with gas-generator experience knows how much charging can be done per volume of fuel, and what size generator you would need to keep up with the current drawn from the battery. In a pinch, you would never be out of juice... no more range anxiety. And when you can charge up from the grid you do that.

I'm guessing running the Tesla (or DeLorean) on the fuel-powered electric generator wouldn't be as efficient as directly driving a car on fuel. Then again, you would be charging up batteries with it so whether you are moving or standing still, that generator will always be going towards charging you up which can allow you to use that energy later (again assuming you pick a generator with an output greater than you are consuming as you drive the vehicle).

Any back-of-the-envelope calculations by someone who knows the output of a generator and the fuel used per kWh of electricity produced? Apparently Tesla batteries have somewhere between 60-100 kWh capacity. I'm looking at a 2200 Watt generator on Amazon and it says something like this:

Truepower technology provides clean, stable power ideal for sensitive electronics, tools and appliances while the 1.2 gallon fuel tank allows 10.75 hours of run time at 25-Percent load.

So does that mean 25% load on a 2200 W generator is 550 W? So it could deliver 550W for 10.75 h on a 1.2 gallon fuel tank? How does this translate to trying to charge a Tesla? Apparently it can take up to 4 full days to charge up a Tesla fully on 120V outlet.

The Tesla 120V outlet assumes a 20A outlet, so you can get up to 2400W RMS out of the circuit.  Running a generator that long would take the equivalent of a couple tanks of fuel for a normal car.... It's just never going to be a workable solution.  This is why EV's will never be a viable option for a majority of the USA due to how rural it is, but it is a great solution for the cities.  I had been hoping that we would see a truly rugged offroad vehicle with a hybrid drivetrain, but unfortunately the EPA regulations have driven the automotive industry down the drain and all incentive for true innovation is gone - It's all regulatory compliance nowadays.  This is why they are now considering pushing everything to a subscription based model (i.e. you no longer own your car) in order to preserve profitability and reduce liability because they can control the lifespan of each vehicle and force it to be returned immediately when a regulatory violation is discovered.  It's a shame.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 06, 2020, 12:44:33 am
This has been hashed out lendlessly already. Electric cars are commuter vehicles primarily, there are vast numbers of people who use a car to commute to and from the office and drive around town. For longer trips they either use a second car which most families in the USA have already, or they rent something just like I rent a truck once or twice a year when I need to move something big. If you don't commute or don't have a place to park and plug in at night then an EV is not for you. Likewise if you are a tradesman with a pile of tools and materials you need to haul to jobsites a compact sedan or hatchback s not suitable, that doesn't mean they are not suitable for many other people or that it wouldn't make sense to own one in addition to your work truck.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: angrybird on March 06, 2020, 12:51:01 am
Also not good if you need a vehicle to drive more than X miles in Y time (due to the charge time) whether Y be 1 day or 3 days; A no0go if you have any concern about being able to drive anywhere or getting stranded anywhere if the power goes out due to storms, etc;  The list goes on.  EV's use case is in large metropolitan areas, where their use is restricted within those areas, and those areas have power generation abilities to charge them no matter what.  Hybrids are the way to go for the USA but unfortunately the EV dementia continues!
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 06, 2020, 02:25:44 am
Hybrids and EVs are not mutually exclusive.

Fun fact, I once got stranded at home with my conventional gasoline powered car because a freak storm knocked down multiple high tension transmission lines into the region. None of the gas stations in town had power to operate the gas pumps so there were no stations within range of the fuel I had in the tank who could sell me fuel. Thankfully I had nowhere to go.

Millions upon millions of people commute to a job less than 30 miles a day and live in multiple car households, these are the people at whom electric cars are targeted and there is still a HUGE untapped market. Nobody with any sense is saying that EVs will replace all cars. Like pickup trucks they are vehicles built for a specific purpose, they're not a one size fits all replacement. If an EV won't meet your own needs you simply don't buy one, easy as that. If it meets the needs of someone else then what's the problem?

Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: NiHaoMike on March 06, 2020, 02:31:05 am
Fun fact, I once got stranded at home with my conventional gasoline powered car because a freak storm knocked down multiple high tension transmission lines into the region. None of the gas stations in town had power to operate the gas pumps so there were no stations within range of the fuel I had in the tank who could sell me fuel. Thankfully I had nowhere to go.
And that's why a plug in hybrid is the best for those who want to be prepared.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 06, 2020, 02:51:58 am
A plug in hybrid wouldn't have been any better, my power was out for almost two weeks, I had nowhere to plug it in.

In the 40 years I've lived in this region I can remember twice I had no power for over a week so I never had a need for a backup generator.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: angrybird on March 06, 2020, 03:41:17 am
Every place I have ever lived has suffered power outages several times a season.  This is due to the majority of the power lines being above ground.  Burying them for most of the USA is not feasible for various reasons.  Every time there is a major storm, there are significant outages, these usually make the news nowadays as the media loves anything that sounds negative or bad.

I don't know how many of these new "plug in" hybrids have gotten rid of the separate battery used for starting the engine, but as long as this battery is charged, you don't need to worry about plugging it in as you will be charging the HV battery whenever the engine is running, whenever you are using regenerative braking, etc.  You can jump start them from another car just like a gasoline vehicle.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: NiHaoMike on March 06, 2020, 04:28:45 am
A plug in hybrid wouldn't have been any better, my power was out for almost two weeks, I had nowhere to plug it in.
All you need are some solar panels at home and a smart inverter that can do backup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9KCl8SAh5Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9KCl8SAh5Y)
I predict at least a few solar inverter manufacturers will team up with EV manufacturers to allow the use of EVs as energy storage for a solar backup system.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: angrybird on March 06, 2020, 04:38:05 am
A plug in hybrid wouldn't have been any better, my power was out for almost two weeks, I had nowhere to plug it in.
All you need are some solar panels at home and a smart inverter that can do backup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9KCl8SAh5Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9KCl8SAh5Y)
I predict at least a few solar inverter manufacturers will team up with EV manufacturers to allow the use of EVs as energy storage for a solar backup system.

No. This is the most ridiculous statement! Do the math!

"Oh, well, my battery died, and I'm at the campground, and it's cloudy, so I'm going to have to wait a few weeks, maybe a month or two before I have enough juice to get home"......

Sorry, not trying to be mean, just do the math  ;D


Edit: Here's some math

Assume a good solar panel... 15 watts per square foot?  In bright sunlight.
Assume the car needs 85kWh for a charge, and let's assume... 80% conversion efficiency from the panels to the car?  That's probably high but oh well.
So you need about 106kWh.

Let's say you have a thousand square feet of solar panel.  A huge panel array!  In bright sunlight you should get 15kWh from these panels and you *should* be able to charge in 7 hours?  Well, you probably won't get 7 hours of bright direct sunlight unless you're in specific geopraphical areas, but it's a day more or less, if it's not raining. Or snowing.  Or cloudy.  Etc.

Ok, so nobody has that much panel.  Let's say it's your typical 100W outdoor panel, you could afford half a dozen of them.  So you have 600W.  Well, it's going to take almost 180 hours... Of direct sunlight.  So let's say you get 8 hours of that per day, you're looking at... 22 days?  Now if it is cloudy, it's, what, twice that? Or more? If it's raining or snowing, even worse?

It's not feasible, not practical, and not going to be any time in the relatively near future.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: amyk on March 06, 2020, 04:45:00 am
A friend of mine had a DeLorean for a while, he's always buying and selling weird random cars, fixes them up, drives them around for a while, some he keeps, others he sells or trades later. Anyway he said the DeLorean was somewhat disappointing, it was underpowered and not very exciting to drive, not very practical either however it sure does look cool. Those PRV V6 engines were dogs, Volvo used them for a while and their reputation was marred for many years after that. They built some really excellent engines of their own but chose some of the worst 3rd party engines they could find for some models. The V6 was thirstier, less powerful, less reliable and harder to work on than their turbo 4 cylinder. The first time I saw one I thought some incompetent gearhead had done a ridiculous engine swap, the thing sat far forward with a huge gap between the engine and firewall.

I don't think anybody buys a vintage 1200 mile car to drive it, that DeLorean will be a garage or trailer queen.
That's why engine swaps exist...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY9bqgO_py0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY9bqgO_py0)
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: SiliconWizard on March 06, 2020, 02:48:01 pm
Thanks for putting the thread back on track, I don't think hijacking it to discuss EVs was a good idea (looks like any discussion about cars these days would invariably end up in a purely EV vs non-EV discussion... sad days. ::) )
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 06, 2020, 06:18:45 pm
A plug in hybrid wouldn't have been any better, my power was out for almost two weeks, I had nowhere to plug it in.
All you need are some solar panels at home and a smart inverter that can do backup.


Oh is that all.

Or the gas stations could have had backup generators and then I'd be just fine with my conventional car, but it's not worth it for most people to buy a cheap backup generator given the rarity of long outages so how is it worth it to buy a solar installation that can function as backup power? Most grid tie solar installations shut down if power is lost.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: edy on March 06, 2020, 09:05:48 pm
So back to DeLorean. Does anyone know if the choice of design (like the CyberTruck) has anything to do with the difficulty in working with stainless steel? Is stamping out curved body-panels difficult with stainless? Is most of the outer skin folded to shape, or are panels welded to each other? How is a stainless steel weld with respect to corrosion resistance and would it add a lot of work to polish and make appear seamless? Sorry I have no idea about stainless metallurgy and the nuances involved in working with it. I see curves on the DeLorean and the car is built on a traditional chassis I presume (unlike the CyberTruck) and so I am wondering if the material they used is thinner and easier to work with than what Tesla is trying to work with. Here is a picture from a factory assembly line:

(https://www.cartalk.com/sites/default/files/blogs/jim-motavalli/electric%20delorean%20on%20the%20line.jpeg)

Without trying to derail the thread again, this is a "cyber"-like sportscar that did not quite make it, the Japanese Dome Zero (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_Zero) which looks a bit like a DeLorean (although the front end is way too pointy compared to the DeLorean's flat square face). I also don't think it is truly made from stainless although the grey model with the flat panel look does have some design features that feel like a DeLorean. Here are a couple of views:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/1978_Dome_Zero_at_Japanese_Automotive_Invitational_2018.jpg/1280px-1978_Dome_Zero_at_Japanese_Automotive_Invitational_2018.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/40/c9/ac/40c9ac47c2272ade637c11ef7eccfc04.jpg)


Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: TheSteve on March 06, 2020, 09:13:49 pm
The body panels on the DeLorean were all stamped. And it was a huge challenge for them. The early 1981's had a fuel flap in the hood and two stamped lines. Then they removed the fuel flap for the rest of 1981. For 1982 and 83 they removed the hood lines as well. It was all due to cracking during the stamping process. I don't believe there was any welding of multiple panels.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 06, 2020, 10:03:33 pm
I suspect the style was mostly just that, style. The flat panels and angular lines looked very futuristic at the time, if you look at other form over function supercars of the era like the Countach, some Lotuses, etc there were a lot that looked a bit like that. I think the Cybertruck is fugly as heck but the DeLorean is quite striking and much preferable to the angry blobs we have today.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: I wanted a rude username on March 06, 2020, 11:34:32 pm
angry blobs

So accurate!  :-DD

https://jalopnik.com/photoshop-reveals-how-all-modern-cars-look-the-same-5938235
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: james_s on March 06, 2020, 11:48:52 pm
angry blobs

So accurate!  :-DD

https://jalopnik.com/photoshop-reveals-how-all-modern-cars-look-the-same-5938235

I don't understand why they all look angry, even the advertising touts this, they'll gush about the "aggressive styling", ok great, I don't want a car that looks angry and aggressive, I want classy and refined. Anyway, whatever.

That V8 swapped DeLorean looks like an absolute blast, it really shows what the car could have been, it should have had either a turbocharged V6 or a smallblock V8 right from the start. Sounds like the gearbox is not really up to the task though as he said not to floor it in 5th. I really cannot grasp why they chose the specific engine that they did, I'm a huge Volvo fan but I've never been able to spot any Volvo influence in the PRV. I can't think of a lot of really good V6 engines but they chose one of the worst I've ever dealt with.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: NiHaoMike on March 07, 2020, 12:20:27 am
Or the gas stations could have had backup generators and then I'd be just fine with my conventional car, but it's not worth it for most people to buy a cheap backup generator given the rarity of long outages so how is it worth it to buy a solar installation that can function as backup power? Most grid tie solar installations shut down if power is lost.
I'm going to guess that because it's used so infrequently, a generator might not work when needed unless regularly tested and serviced, a bit much to ask for the staff of a gas station. An inverter powered off one of the cars would be a more reliable bet, in fact, I have even seen such inverters being sold (way overpriced) at gas stations along highways. (Wouldn't it be ironic if the device that would let the station pull in lots of profit was sitting on one of the shelves in its store?)

The extra cost (mostly a relay and some programming, maybe larger capacitors) to make a solar inverter capable of backup without batteries during the day is quite small and really should be a standard feature. The California energy crisis would probably push things that way - a lot of customers are willing to spend a lot on batteries, but even more would rather start out with a much cheaper solution that at least gets them backup power during the day.
That V8 swapped DeLorean looks like an absolute blast, it really shows what the car could have been, it should have had either a turbocharged V6 or a smallblock V8 right from the start. Sounds like the gearbox is not really up to the task though as he said not to floor it in 5th. I really cannot grasp why they chose the specific engine that they did, I'm a huge Volvo fan but I've never been able to spot any Volvo influence in the PRV. I can't think of a lot of really good V6 engines but they chose one of the worst I've ever dealt with.
Just add a Tesla drive unit and some batteries to the front, now you have a (very fast) plug in hybrid.
Title: Re: DeLorean DMC-12 w/ 1200 miles
Post by: VK3DRB on March 07, 2020, 03:06:49 am
I believe the DeLorean was poorly designed and built with poor workmanship. It was a bit of a joke why they used a DeLorean in Back To The Future. But the nostalgia value surpasses those issues. Being collectable has more value than quality. We had our equivalent lemon here called the Leyland P76, built by Leyland who did not know much about manufacturing. They had no quality control and no testing -  just assemble and ship including defects. But it is quite collectable now.

My dad bought one of the world's first GM Holden Monaro GTS cars in 1968 for around $2,100. It was a V8 with bucket seats and the GT stripe down the middle. The 40th produced apparently. He died in 1969. Because dad worked near home, my guess it would have had only about 5000 miles on it. Mum sold it in early 1970 for what Dad paid for it new. Now worth > $1 million as one-of-a-kind rarity (if it had been put up on blocks for the last 50 years). One with about 20,000 miles on it sold 15 years ago for $650,000. |O

As for me, I bought a Ford Cortina MK1 440 GT for $400 in 1983. Drove it for 40,000 miles. Sold it for $400 in 1995. I loved that car and I regret selling it. The 440 was rare in Australia and MK1's are now almost never to be seen on the roads. It is now worth $35,000 in the condition it was in, and to possibly $50,000 restored.  |O