Author Topic: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?  (Read 8194 times)

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Offline TimNJTopic starter

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Greetings,

For lack of a better name, I’ve been in a “EE design lead” role for the last four years.

While I love the nitty gritty, I find it extremely difficult to shut my brain off during non-working hours. I’m still early in my career, turning 29 this year, so maybe it is something I need to learn and to actively work on.

Up to a certain complexity, many engineering projects are lead by one main designer who guides/steers the development based on his/her analysis/projections/imagination/feelings(!). This often puts a lot of burden on one person to figure out how to best do something.

Often this obsession over some project detail spills over into non-working hours. For example,  as I take a bite of my lasagna at dinner, I’ll think “Where the hell am I going to squeeze that heatsink?” or “Hmm would a simple little PMOS circuit do the trick there” or insert a million other things.

I’ve noticed other lead engineers, including my ex-boss, seem to have this tendency too. (Sending emails at 3am with answers presented to him in a dream.) No shade there at all; he was an extremely effective engineer and did not seem to bother him.

I just wonder: Are there those of you out there in “intense” design lead positions who can turn your brains off when you’re not on the clock? Is that something you learned or is that just who you are?

Thanks,
Tim

 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2023, 03:53:02 am »
Not an engineer here but I also have these issues.

"Hmm how could put that motor in that small space"
"What could I do to keep x thing going while stopping the MCU core"
"Tomorrow I'll check the voltages at x y z points, the issue must be there"

I find it more like a curse than a good thing, sometimes I can't sleep well because my damm head keeps rolling.

The problem is too much anything causes obsession.
A weekend, few beers, fixing car stuff and some barbecue, I don't even think in that.
But when it becomes your daily activity for too long amd you don't compensate with other things, it happens.
Heavy exercising helps a lot!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 03:57:07 am by DavidAlfa »
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Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2023, 04:01:51 am »
I've been retired for more than a decade and still haven't gotten rid of the habit.  When working I could shut off during regular non-working, non sleeping hours as long as I was fully occupied with sports, family or volunteer activities, but would always wake up in the middle of the night and work through whatever the issues of the day were.  Didn't get of bed, just lay there with my eyes closed and thinking for one to three hours.  That habit persists, itt is just different topics.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2023, 04:25:32 am »
Never take work home. Learn to draw the line. At my current workplace we have official "Right to disconnect" policy. It explicitly  disallows work related calls and emails after hours unless you are in an overtime paid support role.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
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Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2023, 04:29:05 am »
This is not "right to disconnect", have you read anything?  :-//
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Offline fourfathom

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2023, 05:15:14 am »
I've been retired for over 20 years (I retired fairly young) and I still can't let go of a good problem.  When trying to figure out something interesting (and that's all I work on now, the interesting stuff), I will lay awake thinking about it, and often wake up with an answer.  During the day I will often find myself staring off into space, trying to find a new way of analyzing the solution-space.  And I was this way during my engineering career. 

Yes, I can disconnect and enjoy other things, but usually during a lull between projects.  I did eventually learn to recognize the early-warning signs of burn-out, and will force myself to ease off before I really hit the wall.

That's not just what I did, it's who I am.  And I couldn't imagine being as happy any other way.
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2023, 05:34:44 am »
I'm 31 and in that role. I also had that problem, but now yes, i can. I've been close to burnout many time in the past couple of years and i made it through because i managed to learn how to distance myself from work.
Sometimes i can't, as it could be a problem that's really been bugging me, or an important deadline (a red flag is not having, nor taking "peace periods" between one deadline and the other, or between one pain in the ass and another)
What i can suggest is to find another hobby, or discipline, that you throw yourself at completely so your brain becomes 100% focused on that, in a few years it becomes easier to disconnect from work at will, at which point you may start receiving "the answer in a dream" (or more commonly, under the shower. Active brain is disconnected, subconcious found the solution)
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2023, 05:52:15 am »
Helps to have a hobby or something/someone else to look forward to after work.

I also took teams off my phone so I didn't have to deal with the client outside of being in their office. If an idea pops up into my head during the weekend or whatever, will just email it to myself and get on with life until Monday.

Funnily enough I come up with some of my best ideas when travelling. When people are glued to the screens mid-air, I'm scribbling down all sorts of things in an exercise book.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2023, 05:56:08 am »
I just wonder: Are there those of you out there in “intense” design lead positions who can turn your brains off when you’re not on the clock? Is that something you learned or is that just who you are?

Nope. I always see the engineerng angle in everything I see and do.
Same with video production, Mrs EEVblog hates it when I constantly yap on during reality TV shows about the production quality and issues, the maniputation through editing and the mood music etc.
 
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Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2023, 07:22:47 am »
I'm my own boss and work from home, so there's essentially no distinction between 'home life' vs 'work life' - there's just 'my life'.

I'm completely OK with that, it seems like a natural and obvious way to exist. Maybe that wouldn't be the case for everyone.

It does help that I have outside interests that are nothing to do with engineering, and which take up a fair amount of time. For example, I help run a local archery club, which means I get to meet people, organise courses, teach new members, and occasionally even get to shoot my own bow. These activities do represent a commitment of time and effort, but that's fine - it gives them priority over collapsing on the sofa which is probably what I'd end up doing otherwise.

If you do find your mind dwells on work, try doing more physical exercise. I've had some great technical ideas while out riding my bike.

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2023, 07:37:53 am »
No.
 
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Offline m k

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2023, 08:14:38 am »
Putting your thoughts on paper is a good one.
Then you sort of have already organized them once and your head can give up a bit.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline Miyuki

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2023, 08:14:48 am »
I have completely free and random work time so I just track the time I think about the problem and report it at the end of the month  :-//
When Im in the mood to work on Sunday at midnight it's ok.
It works great if you have mood swings, so I can work every other week or so.

It is not applicable to all roles, but I think it can be fairly manageable in most positions.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2023, 08:17:49 am »
No, why?

I come on here to find other electronics ideas/questions/info to displace work stuff from my brain. ;D


Never take work home. Learn to draw the line. At my current workplace we have official "Right to disconnect" policy. It explicitly  disallows work related calls and emails after hours unless you are in an overtime paid support role.

It's interesting to distinguish between, just what simmers in your mind because it does, versus what work wants/needs you to do (and, what work should be expecting you to do).  If it's just, going to happen, or helps overall, don't worry about it; if you're expected to be on call, or staying late, or people putting big expectations on you, demanding boss(es) or clients, that sort of thing -- that's paid time, heck with that.

Also maybe matters whether it's hourly or salaried.  If hourly, it's kinda up to you how you want to count that; salaried, it's usually assumed or included, but you might argue that's the case whether, for example, your contract has a one of those "all your creative output is our property" clauses.

If it's becoming a source of stress, absolutely; disconnect, turn off your phone, disable email alerts, go do something fun, whether that's as similar as working on another (but unrelated) project, or completely unrelated like exercise, socializing, playing games, etc.  Your health comes first!

And if their expectations are out of sync with yours, or your pay, or contract, well, that's a political problem, not an engineering one; make your grievances known, and don't be afraid to shop for a new job; you have no duty to them beyond what they pay you!

For my part, I've probably confused people every so often, as I have a penchant of staying up at all hours (as is no mystery if you've been watching time/date of my posts here), so occasionally send a message during off hours.  I should probably keep in mind more often that people may have email alerts on their phone or whatever...

Tim
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Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 
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Offline dietert1

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2023, 09:52:30 am »
I'd recommend Sudokus. For years i have been doing one each day. Just ten minutes to calm down. Or physical activity like tennis or soccer.
In my case a certain patience came with age. I learned that the first idea isn't always important and one better sleeps a night or two to find a good solution. Help is required if one can't sleep any more.

Regards, Dieter
 

Offline TimFox

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Offline PlainName

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2023, 03:22:43 pm »
Don't see the problem. Either you like what you do and enjoy your mind churning things, or you clock watch and stop at the end of the day.

FWIW, I sometimes think up great solutions to work problems when I am drifting off to sleep. The only problem with that is remembering WTF the solution was when I wake up  |O As it happens, I realised one of my best solutions when I was mildly, er, intoxicated but managed to retain the idea the next morning and the implementation made a big contribution to my company's products of that time.
 

Offline fourfathom

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2023, 03:50:20 pm »
I often lived some distance from my job, and had a one-hour each way commute over winding country roads.  That was some of my most productive time, as some days once I got to work I spent most of my time putting out other people's fires.  That was also critical to the company's success, and it's always interesting to help someone figure out a difficult situation, but for my own designs I needed the uninterrupted "flow" time.  For me that was often during my commute.  Or, between the hours of 11PM and 3AM, and I gave myself permission to come in to work late.  My boss backed me up on this.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 04:54:24 pm by fourfathom »
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Offline langwadt

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2023, 04:00:36 pm »
No, why?

I come on here to find other electronics ideas/questions/info to displace work stuff from my brain. ;D


Never take work home. Learn to draw the line. At my current workplace we have official "Right to disconnect" policy. It explicitly  disallows work related calls and emails after hours unless you are in an overtime paid support role.

It's interesting to distinguish between, just what simmers in your mind because it does, versus what work wants/needs you to do (and, what work should be expecting you to do).  If it's just, going to happen, or helps overall, don't worry about it; if you're expected to be on call, or staying late, or people putting big expectations on you, demanding boss(es) or clients, that sort of thing -- that's paid time, heck with that.

Also maybe matters whether it's hourly or salaried.  If hourly, it's kinda up to you how you want to count that; salaried, it's usually assumed or included, but you might argue that's the case whether, for example, your contract has a one of those "all your creative output is our property" clauses.

If it's becoming a source of stress, absolutely; disconnect, turn off your phone, disable email alerts, go do something fun, whether that's as similar as working on another (but unrelated) project, or completely unrelated like exercise, socializing, playing games, etc.  Your health comes first!

And if their expectations are out of sync with yours, or your pay, or contract, well, that's a political problem, not an engineering one; make your grievances known, and don't be afraid to shop for a new job; you have no duty to them beyond what they pay you!

For my part, I've probably confused people every so often, as I have a penchant of staying up at all hours (as is no mystery if you've been watching time/date of my posts here), so occasionally send a message during off hours.  I should probably keep in mind more often that people may have email alerts on their phone or whatever...

Tim

I seem to remember Germany making it a law (or at least talking about it) banning emails after normal work hours

I think some Germany companies started it after they were forced to pay overtime to people reading and responding
to emails outside work hours, so they made it a policy to queue up emails delivery until normal work hours


 

Online mawyatt

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2023, 04:11:33 pm »
Nope. I always see the engineerng angle in everything I see and do.

Think this is the gift/curse of all good scientist/engineers!!

Best
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Offline TimFox

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2023, 04:27:33 pm »
About 30 years ago, the best technical idea I had for my job came to my head as I woke up at home on Christmas morning.
I had to wait a few days before I could reduce it to practice.
 

Offline TimNJTopic starter

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2023, 04:55:37 pm »

It's interesting to distinguish between, just what simmers in your mind because it does, versus what work wants/needs you to do (and, what work should be expecting you to do).  If it's just, going to happen, or helps overall, don't worry about it; if you're expected to be on call, or staying late, or people putting big expectations on you, demanding boss(es) or clients, that sort of thing -- that's paid time, heck with that.


Yes, this is interesting, and certainly something I've thought about. In my case, work never explicitly expects me to do work after normal working hours, or anything like that. The outward attitude of our management is, more or less: "it gets done when it gets done".  Digging a little deeper, even if company has that outward attitude, it can certainly still have structural/systemic issues which implicitly enforce a certain employee lifestyle.

Like many of you, my brain has worked like this for as long as I can remember. I've practically been doing engineering projects for most of my life (well before anyone was paying me for it.) My brain certainly enjoys thinking about problems and imagining solutions. And I find the conscious/subconscious interaction pretty fascinating. As many of you note, it is often the case that the best ideas come from a subconscious voice. I think you still need to stimulate your subconscious with conscious thought. (e.g. you have to consciously think of that bad first idea , before your subconscious can come in and steer you in a better direction.) But the fact that subconscious is so important to solving problems sort of implies that it has to be done in off hours...so, it's like you can't really turn off your brain or else you'll never solve anything.

Certainly I get a lot of energy from problem solving, as do most of you. I'm just trying to understand how crazy you all are, and if you try to "manage the crazy" or if you just fully embrace it? (Or, pessimistically, do you let it take over you?  >:D). If you suppress it, you may kill a part of yourself in the process..yes, but on the other hand, there's a lot more to life than just solving engineering problems.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 07:27:45 pm by TimNJ »
 

Offline nigelwright7557

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2023, 05:15:29 pm »
I work for myself so generally I can work or not work as I please.
I tend to do something different outside work hours to give the brain a change.
 

Offline TimNJTopic starter

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2023, 05:20:12 pm »
I just wonder: Are there those of you out there in “intense” design lead positions who can turn your brains off when you’re not on the clock? Is that something you learned or is that just who you are?

Nope. I always see the engineerng angle in everything I see and do.
Same with video production, Mrs EEVblog hates it when I constantly yap on during reality TV shows about the production quality and issues, the maniputation through editing and the mood music etc.

Ah, I have no problem looking at the world as an engineer. That's just natural.

I am really talking about being "present" in other aspects of life. You know, I shouldn't be doing a tolerance stack-up in my head at my nephew's 2nd birthday party. That's just crazy. But sometimes that's what the brain wants to do!
 

Offline mendip_discovery

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2023, 05:21:30 pm »
I think you are preaching to the choir with this problem.

What I do is ride motorcycles, this takes up a fair amount of conscious brain that allows me to just enjoy myself for a while. Then I am often physically tired when I got home (rides are normally more than 8 hrs on constant riding) then I sleep.

During the week I listen to an audio book as I fall asleep and set it on a time so it doesn't play all night. I find it provides enough distraction to fall off to sleep.

I still have weekends and nights where I cant rest until I finish what I was working on.
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