Author Topic: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?  (Read 8192 times)

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Offline PwrElectronics

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2023, 06:08:16 pm »
Just a few days ago I had some thought pop into my semi-awake status just before getting up in the morning.  Yes, it was to do with my current design project and fortunately I remembered it and was able to act on it later that morning.

I've been at this now for a little over 30yrs and although not a real common thing, I have had work related ideas or reminders to do X pop into my brain after work hours many times.  Does not bother me.

Long ago, there was a older mechanical engineer I worked with who once told of when he was a fairly new engineer and working on some sort of gear or transmission project.  He had a dream/nightmare about being chased by gears and woke up in a sweat but was able to solve his problems from some insight gained.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2023, 11:09:47 pm »
Short answer to the OP, yes.

A couple of old man observations, if I may..

The premise of work/non-work hours is confusing since this is a salary-man construct. Believe it or not, engineering is an art and most folks take too long to realize that regular hours and productive hours are not the same thing.

When you realize that you're doing someone else's work on your time is when you've finally evolved enough to begin branching out and walking your own path in regards to time management. For some, that means the daunting transition over to self-employment.

Apply regular critical analysis to your mindset as you would some project.
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Offline John B

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2023, 11:21:22 pm »
Thinking about designing and problem solving during all waking hours, and possibly sub-consciously during non-waking hours, is a feature not a bug.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2023, 12:43:15 am »
Thinking about designing and problem solving during all waking hours, and possibly sub-consciously during non-waking hours, is a feature not a bug.

  No, to some of us it's a curse. My doctor finally prescribed Zolpidem for me so that I could get to sleep otherwise I was like the walking dead the next day due to a lack of sleep. Since starting Zolpidem I'm 100% functional the next day and I'm often up by 6AM and I often work past 11 at night.  After years of never getting a full night's sleep I've found that I can function perfectly well on about 5 to 6 hours of good sleep per night.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2023, 01:35:35 am »
I hear you. I have a friend who got into sleep problems , his drivers license was suspended (I guess by recommendation from his physician) and his wife drove him to work for a few months before he got re-evaluated and his drivers license was reinstated. No joke, that may happen, so folks think about it, no work worth it.
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2023, 01:55:18 am »
To many of us, this is just how our brain works.

My advice is to not be afraid of getting professional help, if some aspect of it starts negatively affecting your life.  It is no different to e.g. an athlete getting medical help with stress fractures in their bones.

I did not, and instead did the typical Finnish male thing – "through the gray stone", as the saying goes – and silently just grit my teeth and redoubled my efforts, and it slowly but utterly broke me.  There isn't much I regret in life, but the one thing is not acknowledging my unhealthy work environment and habits, and seeking professional help and change a decade earlier.
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2023, 02:00:51 am »
Some people may be optimistic and say I'm loyal and have a huge feeling of responsibility.
Remember and write this on the wall:

There is no such thing as loyalty to your company. Your company will get rid of you as soon as they see it fit.
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Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2023, 03:29:33 am »
Some people may be optimistic and say I'm loyal and have a huge feeling of responsibility.
Remember and write this on the wall:

There is no such thing as loyalty to your company. Your company will get rid of you as soon as they see it fit.

  Truth!

     But that's not what drove me and kept me awake at night.  I just couldn't quit thinking about a problem. Even after it had already been solved or had been irrelevant by changing something else.

   I found that one thing helped was to stop working on something when I had some kind of success.  I used to just press on to the next part of the problem but I found that if I quit and walked away after having some success, that I could sleep better that night.  The last big headache (problem) that I had took me about six days to fully resolve but I only worked on it for anywhere from a few minutes to a couple of hours per day. But it didn't tie me up in knots thinking about it. 
 

Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2023, 04:11:14 am »
There is very little or no "company" loyalty.  But individual managers/owners may show loyalty.

What does exist is evaluation of value.  Often done poorly, but companies want to have high production per pay employees.  If it takes off hour work to be recognized as high value you have to do your own evaluation of whether the job is worth it to you.  You have to consider pay, security, enjoyment of the work and a variety of other things.  There is no one size fits all rule for this.  Someone in a job rich area, with no family obligations and a broad range of skills and interests will have greatly different answers than someone who has niche skills developed because that is his life's fascination combined with other obligations that tie them to an area or employer.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2023, 04:59:41 am »
To many of us, this is just how our brain works.

Well, you wouldn't want to shut your brain off. It doesn't end well. ;D

My advice is to not be afraid of getting professional help, if some aspect of it starts negatively affecting your life.  It is no different to e.g. an athlete getting medical help with stress fractures in their bones.

I did not, and instead did the typical Finnish male thing – "through the gray stone", as the saying goes – and silently just grit my teeth and redoubled my efforts, and it slowly but utterly broke me.  There isn't much I regret in life, but the one thing is not acknowledging my unhealthy work environment and habits, and seeking professional help and change a decade earlier.

Yeah, cheesy I know, but you should always try having a balanced life. You can't shut your brain off, but you can try getting it busy with varied things that will help it not obsessing.

 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2023, 05:45:33 am »
Yeah, cheesy I know, but you should always try having a balanced life. You can't shut your brain off, but you can try getting it busy with varied things that will help it not obsessing.
For me, woodworking and other tactile and olfactory creative stuff (like cooking) does "relax" the analytical part of my mind.

I know a few others who do meditation, sports (running and biking), and such; but it indeed is about "shifting balance" or "shifting gears", not so much "shut brain off" type of thing.  Concentrating on the moment in particular seems to work for many.
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2023, 06:56:54 am »
Yeah, cheesy I know, but you should always try having a balanced life. You can't shut your brain off, but you can try getting it busy with varied things that will help it not obsessing.
For me, woodworking and other tactile and olfactory creative stuff (like cooking) does "relax" the analytical part of my mind.

I know a few others who do meditation, sports (running and biking), and such; but it indeed is about "shifting balance" or "shifting gears", not so much "shut brain off" type of thing.  Concentrating on the moment in particular seems to work for many.

To me it's alpinism. Tthere is nothing else from the moment you touch the rock, snow or ice, to the moment you and your partner (if applicable) have arrived to the top (and sometimes after you have descended, because you also have to climb down most of the times). Your awereness must be 100% on what's in front of you and the immediate surrounding. Work issues, relationship issues, money problems, all has to disappear, and nothing else leaves me at peace like in those hours.
That said, I always wanted to get into woodworking because you still create something, but with your hands more than with your mind, and i love working with hands, but i don't have the space yet to get started.
 
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Offline EPAIII

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2023, 08:51:32 am »
I have found that I can get some of my best ideas when I take my mind off a problem that I had been working on for hours or days. I remember once where the answer to a problem that I and others had been working on for weeks came to me while standing in line to get a sandwich for lunch. I was mentally debating chicken or roast beef.

YMMV.
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2023, 01:04:11 pm »
To me it's alpinism. Tthere is nothing else from the moment you touch the rock, snow or ice, to the moment you and your partner (if applicable) have arrived to the top (and sometimes after you have descended, because you also have to climb down most of the times). Your awereness must be 100% on what's in front of you and the immediate surrounding. Work issues, relationship issues, money problems, all has to disappear, and nothing else leaves me at peace like in those hours.
That said, I always wanted to get into woodworking because you still create something, but with your hands more than with your mind, and i love working with hands, but i don't have the space yet to get started.

I have that kind of relationship with several video games I play.  It varies, of course; you can have anything from a quick intellectual puzzle like Sudoku, to difficult but self-paced games, to low/no pause games that strongly encourage a flow state (i.e., maybe you can pause, but it's not especially advantageous to do so).

Of the middle, FTL: Faster Than Light is my example; you are not only able, but strongly encouraged, to pause often: take time targeting your weapons, assigning crew stations, ship's systems, etc.  I've played through it enough times not to read and cogitate on most of the messages/events, though it's not so engaging that nothing ever crosses my mind; or I may just get up and take a break, and then other thoughts drift back in.

The latter case, in the past I've played quite a lot of several FPSs.  Like, I grew up on Quake 2 online multiplayer, and still play a fair bit of Classic Doom (the mods coming out these days are exquisite!).  But most recently, I've been playing a lot of Rain World, a fascinating 2D survival platformer / simulated ecosystem / body horror / post-apocalyptic sci-fi game, which has more-or-less one-shot death, so, fail a jump and it's back to the start; or, just stand around too long and a giant lizard is likely to munch you (let alone if you're moving through an area strewn with them, among other hazards).  It's not just that it's a challenging game, but indeed it demands attention, and won't let you progress until you've shown your competency, at each leg of your journey.  It seems like, of the range of people I've seen playing it online, a sizable number of them are very [self admitted] ADHD brains; I'm not sure if the game specifically helps with that condition, but if nothing else, the demand for engagement seems a surprisingly effective way to engage the hyperfocus flow state characteristic of ADHD.  For my part, I find I'm rarely thinking about anything else while playing, unless some bit of lore happens to twinge me just right and I have to pause and give it a think.

There's probably a fair amount of merit to discussing games in this context, relating to lifestyle and relaxation, to mental health and so on.  It's interesting that such things have generally been frowned upon to discuss in the past, perhaps seen as trivialities, or too off-topic; well, between societal expectations, and a growing sensitivity to our own mental health, perhaps there is room for them after all? :)

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Offline hans

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2023, 01:42:50 pm »
I find games always a funny one.

"You still play video games? You're 30, it has been 15 years since I last was into video games!"
is very common thing to hear. But meanwhile many people set this societal expectation that board games must be fun. Ugh. Most board games would be described as Dice Simulator with lots of DLC reskins in various game formats. They are also a great way to pretend you hang out with people and then not have conversations with them.
What if, when you're in the mood of "playing" something, you could learn to play something together or against each other, where your choices and outcomes are not predominantly RNG based?

"But that's why I play a sport"
Oh yes thats good for physical health, which games do not pose an alternative for. But I don't think many can play sports for 20hrs+ a week, unless they make it their career. Sporting excessively late at night is also a great way to wreck your sleep schedule, at least it is for me.. So I think its a supplement and not an entire substitute.

Then the other day people will say: "Hey, have you seen that series/movie?"
Sure, I may or may not have seen it. But personally I'm far more interested in open-world RPGs than to watch a 100% linear story. Now again, these 2 hobbies can also be supplemental as playing games can be done at a level thats more recreational than relaxational. But it depends on what type of game you pickup. I think you get the point, though.

Personally I love to play simulator based games, RPGs, team-PvP or PvE, or creative-style games (Tycoons, builders, etc.). The latter can be dangerous though, as there are many games that speak for the engineering analytical mind. Its easy to get carried away and break out the calculator again to find optimal builds for XYZ  ::) But I find simulators as a great way to unwind. There is something majestic in picking up a task with no list of requirements, and just do it at whatever immersion depth you wish. I find flight simulators to be excellent for that. In no way do I have the options to be a (professional) pilot, but it fun to try and master these big machines that are out there, and try or learn something every time :)
 
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2023, 01:47:39 pm »
While thinking about work, I often get inspiration during non-work hours for solving a problem.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2023, 02:19:52 pm »
Personally I love to play simulator based games, RPGs, team-PvP or PvE, or creative-style games (Tycoons, builders, etc.). The latter can be dangerous though, as there are many games that speak for the engineering analytical mind.

Oh yes, I've so far avoided the likes of Minecraft, Terraria, Factorio, etc.  I have too strong a suspicion I would spend altogether far too much time in them! :-DD

Also for those highly technical / code golfing / nerd sniping types, there's the genre of "Zach-likes" which involve programming [virtual] computers directly, or creating clever mechanisms or such.  Also kinda along that line but also related to older puzzle-sim games like The Incredible Machine (ah, I remember playing that on a friend's Macintosh..!), Opus Magnum comes to mind.

Or if you want a just damned clever reimagining of ye olde Sokoban block pushing game: try Baba Is You.  Not so much a game to unwind, it's very clever at times; this is no accident as the credits is a whos-who of top puzzle crafters today, pretty much all of them had a hand in one level or another.

But yeah, indeed not so much for physical health, but the mental health value of gaming is not at all to be neglected!

Tim
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Offline AndyBeez

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2023, 02:35:19 pm »
How about, design engineers, can you turn on your brain during work hours ??? I'm sure the dudes here can think of a few co-workers of whom, progressed quickly into management.

Seriously though, such is the choice between having a job and having a vocation. If you never think about your tasks outside of working hours then you've got yourself a job. And in ten year's time you'll still be there, happily doing exactly the same job. A vocation is not something you do just for the money, you do it because you have a passion for it. Nursing, teaching, sports, writing and performing arts, are all examples where people are doing it for the passion and not necessarily the pay (especially musicians). Ergo, a job is what you do but a vocation is what you are.

Ask, would you be a creative EE if you were not paid? Of course you would. Be happy, you're an engineer, and you're thinking like an engineer. Even if the engineering volume is a bit too loud in your head right now. I have no idea what your thing is, but whatever it is you find, watch out for interests that might become your next vocation. Or even vacation, if you love doing them too much.
 
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Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2023, 02:19:44 am »
How about, design engineers, can you turn on your brain during work hours ??? I'm sure the dudes here can think of a few co-workers of whom, progressed quickly into management.

Seriously though, such is the choice between having a job and having a vocation. If you never think about your tasks outside of working hours then you've got yourself a job. And in ten year's time you'll still be there, happily doing exactly the same job. A vocation is not something you do just for the money, you do it because you have a passion for it. Nursing, teaching, sports, writing and performing arts, are all examples where people are doing it for the passion and not necessarily the pay (especially musicians). Ergo, a job is what you do but a vocation is what you are.

Ask, would you be a creative EE if you were not paid? Of course you would. Be happy, you're an engineer, and you're thinking like an engineer. Even if the engineering volume is a bit too loud in your head right now. I have no idea what your thing is, but whatever it is you find, watch out for interests that might become your next vocation. Or even vacation, if you love doing them too much.

For some in each of those professions it is a job.  Though that is certainly rare in music.
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2023, 04:31:25 am »
I basically just switch from doing stuff for work to doing stuff for personal projects.
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Offline m k

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2023, 05:52:49 am »
I must check my notes where were I and how was it.

I can also drive a car and suddenly notice that oh dear, I'm already here.
Seems that I can at least switch off of something.
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Online tautech

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2023, 08:29:29 am »
It's only natural something we are passionate about consumes us and like the skills we have learnt we also need learn how to manage it.
It's right and proper to be the best we can but at what personal cost ?

We all have our ways to manage the work and we each are very different with vastly different techniques which comes full circle to learning how to manage your time best.

I decided the most valuable part of my day was rest, proper rest and with a less strenuous day than the physical work I once did sleep didn't always come easy.
A dear uncle would say, if you can't sleep you haven't earned it !

Nowdays a double or triple nightcap is my right medicine and just before bed while watching whatever crap is on TV or a session watching some YouTube unrelated to your daily chores.

It's just another skill we need learn, good luck finding your remedy.
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Offline DiTBho

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2023, 12:29:49 pm »
Nope. I always see the engineerng angle in everything I see and do.

yesterday I was offered a NOS Campy BioTherm water bottle for cheap, and ... instead of looking at its cool 90s design which perfectly fits my titanium 90s road bicycle frame, I immediately took my smartphone to find a "datasheet" ...

The man looked at me, without saying a word but he had the face of wondering "hey buddy, do you seriously need to look at the datasheet to buy my water bottle?" - while, in my corner, I just didn't even think that it could make him embarrassed.

Instead, in my head, I was just wondering why it was so light with the suspect that didn't use steel and glass, and when I found out it was completely plastic, I started thinking that thermal insulation with polyurethane foam is less efficient than a glass vessel with double walls where the space between the walls is a vacuum which reduces the heat loss due to conduction and convection.

As a result, the guy changed his mind about the possible discount and even asked me for more money.

Moral of the story is, reasoning like an engineer with a trader can be counterproductive  :-//
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2023, 06:57:56 pm »
As a result, the guy changed his mind about the possible discount and even asked me for more money.

Moral of the story is, reasoning like an engineer with a trader can be counterproductive  :-//
I disagree.  To me, the moral is that one should consider interacting with traders (and other "normies") as an engineering problem (for oneself to solve); and investigate which kind of interaction patterns yield the best mutually beneficial results.  Pulling up your cellphone instantly doomed you to failure, I'm afraid. :(
 
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Offline tszaboo

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Re: Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours?
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2023, 08:53:56 pm »
I used to, especially when I was facing interesting challenges. You get the "flow", psychology term, look it up.
It's easier if you work for a bad employer, you can just say that you don't care, and the brain switches off. Most days I can turn it off 5 minutes after leaving work. Physically separating the space where you work also helps. Have a separate desk for work at home situations, don't do anything else there. It's the desk where you are at work, and nowhere else at home. If you have a laptop, keep it there, and have personal computers and laptops, not just the company one.
I only suggest doing this if you are satisfied with your job position. If you want to go ahead, spending the extra time might be very well worth it to get better results at work and to get ahead, or to get a raise. Nobody got to the top of their field by spending 8 hours a day doing something, the competition is just too much. You need to be exceptionably smart, driven and conscientiousness to do that. At 9 years you might be already there at your current employer, so it could be time to sit back, especially if the pay is good. If the pay isn't good, then ask for raise or gtfo from there asap.
And channel that energy of unpaid work into something else. Side job, hobby, family, working out.
 


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