Poll

What do you think about having designated "Expert" forum users?

I don't like it
126 (71.6%)
Maybe
26 (14.8%)
I like it
24 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 174

Author Topic: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?  (Read 51875 times)

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Online Gyro

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #100 on: February 16, 2022, 11:38:34 am »
This has got me curious about who suggested the idea to Dave - to the extent that he felt it worth taking a sounding.  :-\

Unless I've missed one, I don't think anyone in the 'I like it' vote category has posted anything yet.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #101 on: February 16, 2022, 11:38:37 am »
Interesting discussion of the “Expert” on a forum topic…..

https://metatalk.metafilter.com/18297/From-the-Latin-ex-a-hasbeen-and-spurt-a-drip-under-pressure

Fraser
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Online Gyro

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #102 on: February 16, 2022, 11:46:41 am »
Interesting discussion of the “Expert” on a forum topic…..

https://metatalk.metafilter.com/18297/From-the-Latin-ex-a-hasbeen-and-spurt-a-drip-under-pressure

Fraser

A good point about 'Experts' feeling under pressure to answer questions [Edit: and the associated follow-ups], whatever the time of day.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #103 on: February 16, 2022, 11:51:30 am »
I think the beginners are just fine.  We are designing a solution waiting for a problem.  But if it were to have ranks, I'd like to be something epic, like this:



My favorite is Gimli!   :)
 
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Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #104 on: February 16, 2022, 11:53:42 am »
Any beginner or student looking for The Truth on internet forums must be redirected to reliable sources.

I thought that, but forgot to include it in my earlier posts. That is a good argument (in my mind), as to why this 'experts' idea, may not be suitable for this forum. Because it is NOT an official source of correct/good, highly accurate information. Unlike a Book, decent journal, datasheet, University etc.

The problem/thing is. If a small percentage of us (users), are given the title OFFICIAL EXPERT. Perhaps only in some sub-forums or topics. Such as Audi Expert, etc.
Then (perhaps just speaking for myself), it would be extremely off putting, to ever reply to any thread. Because we wouldn't have (for most of us), that EXPERT label, and could easily have our answers, contradicted, when/if the actual expert label holder(s), posting in the thread.

I.e. It could seriously damage the functioning of the forum. Because if lots of posters are completely put off from ever posting (answers). The forum might (at least in some respects) go downhill, fast.

It is a bit like the job adverts, which put so much detailed requirements, that it is unlikely that any real person exists, who could fulfill all of them.

E.g.
>Have at least 30 years Electronics Expert Knowledge, working in our specialist field
>Be less than 25 years old
>Have at least 30 years computer/Programming experience, full time
>Graduated from University, within last 5 years, so academic knowledge is still modern/useful
>Never worked for any competitor, ever
>Happy to work for legal minimum wage
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #105 on: February 16, 2022, 12:05:26 pm »
Put a "Thanked" counter next to the "Posts" counter.
If you absolutely must do something.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #106 on: February 16, 2022, 12:12:48 pm »
Put a "Thanked" counter next to the "Posts" counter.
If you absolutely must do something.
I don't think that is a good idea; it has no statistical relevance. Either as an absolute or relative number. The more people post, the more they get thanked. On top of that there is the echo-chamber effect. Some thank when people agree even though what is written is questionable.

Just see a thanks as nodding your head you agree. IIRC thanking was originally added to get rid of 'I agree posts' that added nothing to the discussion.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 12:15:47 pm by nctnico »
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Offline m k

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #107 on: February 16, 2022, 12:19:00 pm »
The basic problem is always those who are expressing themselves for what ever other reason than massages in hand.
Unfortunately they also have many times the possibility and stamina to be a volume.
Eventually they will also flood the place, SNR is very important but so is the mood of it.

You're also always limited with only few options.

Howabout a dotted line where one dot is one area and its level is being dynamic.
A dot, small and big letter, underline, overstrike and bold, quite many levels.
What letters, Analog, Digital, Metrology, Power, Other, AP, DM.
Maybe large enough group of elders enabling/disabling those.
So all it needs is a user statistics for elders view.

BTW,
I'm usually browsing offline and didn't mind losing one yellow square.
Advance-Aneng-Appa-AVO-Beckman-Danbridge-Data Tech-Fluke-General Radio-H. W. Sullivan-Heathkit-HP-Kaise-Kyoritsu-Leeds & Northrup-Mastech-OR-X-REO-Simpson-Sinclair-Tektronix-Tokyo Rikosha-Topward-Triplett-Tritron-YFE
(plus lesser brands from the work shop of the world)
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #108 on: February 16, 2022, 12:20:21 pm »
I thought I would add my own personal view of contributors to forum posts.

There are specialists (I prefer that term to “Experts”) in a particular topic who may have very insightful comment on their specialist topic and this is to be welcomed on any forum that is fortunate enough to have such membership. That said, some specialists know their topic but are not always great at instructing or helping others in a way that may be easily understood by ‘mere mortals’. I have also met some very clever scientists who are specialists in their chosen field, BUT they lack real world experience and sometimes, even common sense ! This forum has an excellent compliment of members with specialist knowledge who are willing to help others by sharing their knowledge. We are indeed fortunate :)

There are forum members, such as myself, who do not consider themselves “Experts” in any particular field, even if we possess specialist knowledge of very narrow topics. I was repairing electronics at age 7 and went on to be trained as a Merchant Marine Radio Officer before joining an employer who needed my particular set of skills for land based activities. That employer provided me with a broad range of specialist skills that have enabled me to help others over a broad spectrum of topics….I do not consider myself an Expert in those topics however and do not like the term anyway ! I am a technical officer with a broad range of formally trained knowledge who  is a specialist in a few, well defined, topics. So how would I be categorised under the “Expert” system ?

There are forum members who are still learning and absorbing knowledge as they study in educational establishments or in work place apprenticeships. They may have questions on all manner of topics but they may equally have good, modern, knowledge of certain fields within this forums coverage. They may not be an “Expert” but they have much to contribute and should not feel that they should not because an “Expert” will answer a question. Answering questions can carry risk…. a person may be wary of providing input to a topic if they are concerned about being challenged by an “Expert”. On other forums there are some pretty obnoxious “Experts” who sometimes believe that they are Gods in their realm and cannot tolerate any alternative viewpoints. Thankfully I see no such behaviour on this forum, at least in the areas of it that I frequent. Basically, just because a person is not an expert, it does not mean that the Experts view is the only one that matters. For a newbie, it is sometimes important that a fellow newbie shares their personal experience or knowledge as that may be at a level that can be easily understood. ‘Team working’ amongst techs to solve a problem, even via a forum, can generate good questions and equally good answers along the way. If an “Expert” just gives the answer on ‘day 1’, a learning opportunity may be lost. As has been said before….it is not always the result that matters, it can be how you got there that matters most.

Public forums contain a vast array of knowledge repositories in the form of its memberships brains. It is good to receive a broad spectrum of responses to a question, even if incorrect !, as discussion follows and many people learn from the original question. A good discussion will result in the best possible full answer to the question that has effectively been peer reviewed by the forum membership. Even “Experts” can be wrong sometimes ! Giving them an “Expert” badge can provide undeserved ‘never wrong’ status to some knowledgeable forum members.

Then we get to the forum members who may be somewhat less helpful to those asking questions. At the least harmful level there are those who are self declared “experts” who just possess decent Google-Fu but do not possess the essential knowledge to spot when Google searches result in incorrect, or darn right misleading, information. They then present that erroneous data to a person on the forum. That recipient might take that information as from an “Expert”, so uses it without question. Not a great idea and people need to do their own checks and balances on answers provided via forums, Google searches and Wiki pages. As we know…. Just because it’s on the internet does not mean that it is true or accurate. There are also those who frequent forums who have a little knowledge and are dangerous ! They may claim “Expert” knowledge of a topic yet be misguided or malicious ….. Flat Earthers ?  ;D Thankfully such persons are normally spotted pretty quickly and may be ignored or banned, if malicious.

In life there are many people with greatly varying levels of knowledge and expertise who come into our Orbits. They have much to offer and often enjoy the interaction on forums such as this great platform. It would be a pity to do anything that potentially made these forum members contributions appear less valuable than the opinion of an “Expert”.

As I have alluded to earlier…. I have worked with some really clever “experts” in their particular specialist field who I would not trust to tie their own shoe laces, let alone give me any advice on a topic that did not sit dead centre of their specialist field of knowledge  ;D

This forum is filled with members who possess “Specialist” knowledge, even if they do not have a particular Degree or Certificate to say so.

I do not feel the need for an “Expert” badge system on this forum. To me it has the looks of creating an ‘Elite’ membership and is a real can of worms. Where you have an “Expert” status, there will always be the challenge of determining who gets that status and whether the Status may be challenged or revoked. A bit like being a GP or Lawyer ….. you are answerable for your mistakes and can be ‘removed’ for negligence  ;D

Me? … I know a little about a lot, and and a lot about a little  :-+

Fraser


« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 03:12:45 pm by Fraser »
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Online Gyro

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #109 on: February 16, 2022, 12:21:01 pm »
Put a "Thanked" counter next to the "Posts" counter.
If you absolutely must do something.

Agreed on the "If you absolutely must do something".
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline daqq

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #110 on: February 16, 2022, 12:30:48 pm »
I can see a lot of fighting on what constitutes "an expert".
If we had an expert on what an expert is we wouldn't be having this problem.
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #111 on: February 16, 2022, 12:45:40 pm »
If we are a free and open public electronics forum. Then everyone must be free to post, in all areas (with obvious exceptions, such as banned or spam posters).

You can't have it both ways. Either it is casual/free/open, for anyone to post, or it isn't.

Once we start having designated experts, or highlighted special/best posters and so on. We begin to lose our "Free and open" status.

There are half-way house solutions. But they still move away from being a free and open environment.
 
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #112 on: February 16, 2022, 12:46:12 pm »
I can see a lot of fighting on what constitutes "an expert".
If we had an expert on what an expert is we wouldn't be having this problem.

Seriously though, I suspect we have very few social engineers here -- who would be best suited to anticipate the concerns and issues aired above.  Social and psychological behaviors are surprisingly unintuitive and difficult to predict; even if we had come up with seemingly workable ideas, it's really hard to say how well they would work out in practice.

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Online Zero999

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #113 on: February 16, 2022, 12:46:40 pm »
- The most important counter argument is that science does not work by voting.  Science is not a democracy, and it is not about what people like or what people think.  Science and its derivatives, like engineering, are independent of crowd's belief.
(..)

That would be funny if science would resolve itself by voting....  ::)
Actually it kind of is. Science is truth by consensus.
No it's not. A consensus on a theory doesn't always mean it's right. The astronomer Galileo was proof of that. In the last two years, there are plenty of things which were believed to be correct, by a large number of scientists, yet are now widely contested.

Quote
Which circles back to my view that a system where people are labelled as expert on a forum leads to opinions getting more weight added to them. But who is going to guarantee that these opinions are 'right'? Also, some people are better (like politicians) at phrasing their opinions than others.

The way I see it, a forum is a place where you go looking for informed opinions on a subject and share information to have debates. If you look for information, find literature (Wikipedia is often a good place to start) and read that.
The only way to establish the truth is to look at the evidence available, but that's often subject to manipulation.
 

Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #114 on: February 16, 2022, 12:56:54 pm »
- The most important counter argument is that science does not work by voting.  Science is not a democracy, and it is not about what people like or what people think.  Science and its derivatives, like engineering, are independent of crowd's belief.
(..)

That would be funny if science would resolve itself by voting....  ::)
Actually it kind of is. Science is truth by consensus.
No it's not. A consensus on a theory doesn't always mean it's right. The astronomer Galileo was proof of that. In the last two years, there are plenty of things which were believed to be correct, by a large number of scientists, yet are now widely contested.

Quote
Which circles back to my view that a system where people are labelled as expert on a forum leads to opinions getting more weight added to them. But who is going to guarantee that these opinions are 'right'? Also, some people are better (like politicians) at phrasing their opinions than others.

The way I see it, a forum is a place where you go looking for informed opinions on a subject and share information to have debates. If you look for information, find literature (Wikipedia is often a good place to start) and read that.
The only way to establish the truth is to look at the evidence available, but that's often subject to manipulation.

I don't think expert is suppose to mean that every single statement they issue is going to be 100% right, all of the time. It is just that an expert is more likely to give the correct answer, and less likely to give the wrong answer, NOT that an expert is going to give the correct answer all the time.

If a company boss/owner, has made a successful company, that has grown and grown. It doesn't mean that every decision they have made was/is 100% perfect. Just that enough of them on average, were good enough to eventually make a good and successful company, and none of the mistakes were bad enough to prematurely end the company, so far.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 01:00:29 pm by MK14 »
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #115 on: February 16, 2022, 12:58:36 pm »
I wonder how many of you have the stones to actually mentor someone?

I have a number in my mind. I'll bet you can't change my mind.

Go into the beginners section, find somebody with only a few posts and recognize that they are now where you once were and help them find the next step.
iratus parum formica
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #116 on: February 16, 2022, 01:08:52 pm »
I now know, looking back into my early days of electronics. That some/many of the projects in electronics magazines (from a long time ago), were in a number of cases. Not especially hicle well designed. In some cases they wouldn't even work. In others, some parts of the design were, let's say questionable.
But that hasn't stopped many people from progressing through their electronics hobby and/or University/similar and/or electronics career paths, with, in some cases great success.

When I was first learning electronics I was a kid, and I had several friends who were also kids with a similar interest. I can remember some of the misconceptions that we passed from one to another for lack of any useful mentors or instruction to set us right again. You see the same phenomenon with young 'gentlemen' and motor vehicles, the folk knowledge that gets passed around on vehicle performance and physics is excruciatingly wrong, and I suspect our electronics faux pas were just as painful to observe if you knew what you were talking about.
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #117 on: February 16, 2022, 01:16:41 pm »
Until both of you can agree on such lofty philosophy, you can at least agree that you know how a transistor works or even a 555. I'm saying put your energy into helping people understand that. Fill the gaps.

 :)
iratus parum formica
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #118 on: February 16, 2022, 01:27:17 pm »
How about showing number of unique users who "thanked", in particular topic.

Speaking as the 4th ranked "most thanked" user on the forum I have to tell you that would be misleading.  :) All it tells me is that I'm not too out of step with the milieu here, and I make people laugh occasionally.

If we were to use any kind of "thanked" rating it'd need a different button "Mark as useful technical answer" or somesuch as the current "thank" button serves as many things: "nod of head in agreement", "this made me laugh", "that post agrees with my political views", "that fella isn't as much of an arse as the man he's arguing with" etc. etc.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2022, 01:29:53 pm »
Until both of you can agree on such lofty philosophy, you can at least agree that you know how a transistor works or even a 555. I'm saying put your energy into helping people understand that. Fill the gaps.

 :)

Not everyone, has the patience, inclination and other factors. To help beginners. For example, some people are happy to supply quick 1 or 2 line answers, to help them continue their experiments/learning/projects. But don't necessarily have enough patience, to put the time in, to help them further.

E.g. Your electrolytic capacitor, probably exploded because you put it in the wrong way round. Please carefully check the polarity next time. Which way round they are inserted, does matter.

Rather than a detailed technical explanation as to why electrolytic capacitors have polarities, are often used despite their many weaknesses, and tips on how to reduce the likelihood of such mistakes in future.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 01:31:49 pm by MK14 »
 
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Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #120 on: February 16, 2022, 01:34:16 pm »
How about showing number of unique users who "thanked", in particular topic.
Speaking as the 4th ranked "most thanked" user on the forum

Which is totally, 100% your extreme dedication to helping people on the beginners forum. And absolutely nothing to do with your participation on any other threads, whatsoever, such as the Tea thread.

For those that don't know. They seem to throw huge numbers of 'thanks' in that thread.
Example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4005397/#msg4005397

Quote
2nd display back among the living.
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So, one thank per word.    :-DD
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 01:40:32 pm by MK14 »
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #121 on: February 16, 2022, 01:38:36 pm »
Until both of you can agree on such lofty philosophy, you can at least agree that you know how a transistor works or even a 555. I'm saying put your energy into helping people understand that. Fill the gaps.

 :)

Not everyone, has the patience, inclination and other factors. To help beginners. For example, some people are happy to supply quick 1 or 2 line answers, to help them continue their experiments/learning/projects. But don't necessarily have enough patience, to put the time in, to help them further.

E.g. Your electrolytic capacitor, probably exploded because you put it in the wrong way round. Please carefully check the polarity next time. Which way round they are inserted, does matter.

Rather than a detailed technical explanation as to why electrolytic capacitors have polarities, are often used despite their many weaknesses, and tips on how to reduce the likelihood of such mistakes in future.

Yep. I agree. So maybe we do need to elect an individual who is prepared to work the beat, so to speak.

Just going by the dick waving in the thread (not you), I'm starting to think that Dave is right. The forum could use a person assigned to the task. But how do we keep the dicks out of a walled garden?
iratus parum formica
 
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Offline Carel

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #122 on: February 16, 2022, 01:48:27 pm »
Wouldn't it be nice to get more feedback from topicstarters? And look how to encourage this? Without results an experts opinion is just an opinion, which it is for starters. considering the handicap of written words in other languages and the physical separation problem.

A problem can have many layers and the solutions can vary from hammers to Nobel prize nomination mathematics,

Personally I can't solve a problem without having a reasonable deep understanding of it, so I rarely pose a question. The moment I think: let's start a topic, I am near to a solution.

I think I am afraid of the rumbling rantings of experts, who give lengthy answers, with only a narrow connection to the question.

To put it sarcastically: It always amazes me how much Jumbo-jet pilots are active on the internet. They must have an incredible amount of free time.



 

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #123 on: February 16, 2022, 01:49:15 pm »
Until both of you can agree on such lofty philosophy, you can at least agree that you know how a transistor works or even a 555. I'm saying put your energy into helping people understand that. Fill the gaps.

 :)

Not everyone, has the patience, inclination and other factors. To help beginners. For example, some people are happy to supply quick 1 or 2 line answers, to help them continue their experiments/learning/projects. But don't necessarily have enough patience, to put the time in, to help them further.

E.g. Your electrolytic capacitor, probably exploded because you put it in the wrong way round. Please carefully check the polarity next time. Which way round they are inserted, does matter.

Rather than a detailed technical explanation as to why electrolytic capacitors have polarities, are often used despite their many weaknesses, and tips on how to reduce the likelihood of such mistakes in future.

Yep. I agree. So maybe we do need to elect an individual who is prepared to work the beat, so to speak.

Just going by the dick waving in the thread (not you), I'm starting to think that Dave is right. The forum could use a person assigned to the task. But how do we keep the dicks out of a walled garden?
Don't build it in the first instance.  :P

No place like this is perfect but EEVblog is generally head and shoulders above the rest of the bunch.

A few years back I thought I'd better go and see what help I could be at AAC and posted some scope screenshots in a reply to help a member only to have the post vanish as mods thought it was advertising as the scopes brand was plainly visible in the screenshot.  ::) I mean how outta touch are these plonkers so I engaged with them and all of a sudden all mods were copied in and we had quite a civil conversation and of course I was open about our allegiance and the wish to primarily provide support.
But even funnier was to come as they offered me a mods position which I immediately declined and explained their membership would see that as putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 
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Online Zero999

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #124 on: February 16, 2022, 01:50:03 pm »
How about showing number of unique users who "thanked", in particular topic.

Speaking as the 4th ranked "most thanked" user on the forum I have to tell you that would be misleading.  :) All it tells me is that I'm not too out of step with the milieu here, and I make people laugh occasionally.

If we were to use any kind of "thanked" rating it'd need a different button "Mark as useful technical answer" or somesuch as the current "thank" button serves as many things: "nod of head in agreement", "this made me laugh", "that post agrees with my political views", "that fella isn't as much of an arse as the man he's arguing with" etc. etc.
Unfortunately the thanks button gets abused. I wonder how many people in the top 10 thanked users list, only got there because they made loads of replies to treez's/Faringdon's threads? |O
 
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