Poll

What do you think about having designated "Expert" forum users?

I don't like it
126 (71.6%)
Maybe
26 (14.8%)
I like it
24 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 174

Author Topic: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?  (Read 51863 times)

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Online nctnico

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #125 on: February 16, 2022, 02:02:41 pm »
- The most important counter argument is that science does not work by voting.  Science is not a democracy, and it is not about what people like or what people think.  Science and its derivatives, like engineering, are independent of crowd's belief.
(..)

That would be funny if science would resolve itself by voting....  ::)
Actually it kind of is. Science is truth by consensus.
No it's not. A consensus on a theory doesn't always mean it's right. The astronomer Galileo was proof of that. In the last two years, there are plenty of things which were believed to be correct, by a large number of scientists, yet are now widely contested.
-off topic-
And how it that not truth by consensus?  ;)

Truth by consensus means that a previously proven theory is regarded as being true until someone comes along and proves (by using new/better methods and insights) it is not. That is how science works and always has worked for centuries. In hindsight it is easy to say 'look, those idiots where wrong all that time' but that is just hindsight. And then there are cases where it is better to be cautious and accept a safe theory that is not fully proven / disproven yet.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 02:05:22 pm by nctnico »
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Online tautech

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #126 on: February 16, 2022, 02:05:12 pm »
How about showing number of unique users who "thanked", in particular topic.

Speaking as the 4th ranked "most thanked" user on the forum I have to tell you that would be misleading.  :) All it tells me is that I'm not too out of step with the milieu here, and I make people laugh occasionally.

If we were to use any kind of "thanked" rating it'd need a different button "Mark as useful technical answer" or somesuch as the current "thank" button serves as many things: "nod of head in agreement", "this made me laugh", "that post agrees with my political views", "that fella isn't as much of an arse as the man he's arguing with" etc. etc.
Unfortunately the thanks button gets abused. I wonder how many people in the top 10 thanked users list, only got there because they made loads of replies to treez's/Faringdon's threads? |O
How is it he's even still here ?  :-//
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Online xrunner

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #127 on: February 16, 2022, 02:10:08 pm »
Those thanks mean nothing. I just thanked Tautech's post. But why?

Was is because I liked the information in the post?
Was it because I like him?
Was it because I clicked the "thanks' by accident?
Was it to prove that "thanks" mean nothing?
Was it because of some other reason?

I'm not going to say, and you cannot derive the reason either.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #128 on: February 16, 2022, 02:10:19 pm »
Until both of you can agree on such lofty philosophy, you can at least agree that you know how a transistor works or even a 555. I'm saying put your energy into helping people understand that. Fill the gaps.

 :)

Not everyone, has the patience, inclination and other factors. To help beginners. For example, some people are happy to supply quick 1 or 2 line answers, to help them continue their experiments/learning/projects. But don't necessarily have enough patience, to put the time in, to help them further.

E.g. Your electrolytic capacitor, probably exploded because you put it in the wrong way round. Please carefully check the polarity next time. Which way round they are inserted, does matter.

Rather than a detailed technical explanation as to why electrolytic capacitors have polarities, are often used despite their many weaknesses, and tips on how to reduce the likelihood of such mistakes in future.

Yep. I agree. So maybe we do need to elect an individual who is prepared to work the beat, so to speak.

Just going by the dick waving in the thread (not you), I'm starting to think that Dave is right. The forum could use a person assigned to the task. But how do we keep the dicks out of a walled garden?
Don't build it in the first instance.  :P

No place like this is perfect but EEVblog is generally head and shoulders above the rest of the bunch.

A few years back I thought I'd better go and see what help I could be at AAC and posted some scope screenshots in a reply to help a member only to have the post vanish as mods thought it was advertising as the scopes brand was plainly visible in the screenshot.  ::) I mean how outta touch are these plonkers so I engaged with them and all of a sudden all mods were copied in and we had quite a civil conversation and of course I was open about our allegiance and the wish to primarily provide support.
But even funnier was to come as they offered me a mods position which I immediately declined and explained their membership would see that as putting the fox in charge of the hen house.

A bigger question I have for you is why aren't you in bed?  ;)

No sane person accepts a mod position. I understand that.

What I am proposing is perhaps an enthusiastic intermediate instead of a jaded 'expert'.

I posted the 'expert' video on an earlier page for shits and giggles. I have in my professional capacity assumed nearly all of those roles and quietly chuckled to myself the whole time. I'm suggesting, as an expert ;) , that the forum is ready to take this next step.

The problem is that the chosen person needs protection from 'experts' with a bad attitude. It needs to be understood that an intermediary is there to encourage beginners and reinforce their own understanding without the fear of being publicly humiliated.
iratus parum formica
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #129 on: February 16, 2022, 02:16:52 pm »
Each user can see who thanked him (it is nice to know who are one's friends, isn't it?  :) ), but statistics about thanked/found-useful posts for each user are not public.

Yes they are, but as usual the SMF user interface is less than helpful in guiding you to find them. Summary statistics are hidden at the bottom of the forum index page, and you can see any users 'thanked' count by looking them up in the members list.

You have been thanked on average 0.27 times per post whereas I have been thanked on average 0.77 times per post. That to my mind conclusively proves that any metric based around thanks is worthless because while I like to hope I'm a useful contributor from time to time I most certainly don't think I'm the über contributor that statistic would seem to imply.

There's also the issue you allude to but don't express directly: "Any metric once created will be gamed". Someone will play in such a way as to inflate the metric rather than to behave in the way the metric was supposed to measure positively for, wasting time trying to bolster the metric rather than doing something useful to produce the outcome the metric was intended to measure. I don't think anybody is currently gaming the thanks statistics, but if they were given prominence they would almost certainly become "gamed".

If anyone needs any more convincing that "Thanks" as is currently implemented is a useless metric, here it is. This is the top 10 most thanked people, as spat out by SMFs stats. I've added number of posts and calculated a "Thanks per post" ratio as a percentage.
User       ThankedPostsThanks to post ratio
med6753    1063410178104.48%
bd139      1040420506 50.74%
EEVblog    860033942 25.34%
Cerebus    7288 9403 77.51%
mnementh    604515133 39.95%
tautech    492623059 21.36%
james_s    440416959 25.97%
BU508A      4012 3803105.50%
T3sl4co1l  368018610 19.77%
tggzzz      353114611 24.17%

Note how that puts Tim (T3sl4co1l) at the bottom of the ranking by "Thanks per post", one of the most useful contributors (arguably the most useful) on the forum and Mounty (BU508A) at the top, who while being a sterling chap, and very generous to boot, isn't in Tim's league (Sorry Mounty). (Note, these are only the top 10 thanked, so the ranking on the ratio of thanks per post is only out of these 10 posters, not the whole forum.)
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #130 on: February 16, 2022, 02:17:11 pm »
(didn't read all interactions here)

IME badges are a terrible idea. Among other factors, the excellent linked post by Fraser reflects my experience as well:

here's a sense in which knowing there's an expert in something sort of subtly reduces the value of everyone else's contributions because people wait for the expert to show up.

Also, the other topics such as what constitutes an expert, how broad on the subject one could be still considered one, etc. are very valid.

People give their time for free and having an added pressure of a badge can be detrimental to the contributions of someone that is unable to dedicate the proper time for full fledged answers at all times. This can be overcome in part by pre-canned answers to questions or something that AAC currently has, which are several concise articles that can easily be leveraged on their platform (I have used them myself many times to give posters some technical context and background).

Also, some of the experts may simply give short replies with further questions to narrow the problem at hand - after all, it is not infrequent the number of people that ask something and simply vanish (retiredcaps and I had an exchange about that many years ago).
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #131 on: February 16, 2022, 02:21:50 pm »


If anyone needs any more convincing that "Thanks" as is currently implemented is a useless metric, here it is.

Not wishing to cherry-pick your post but we might like to see the breakdown of thanks in the beginners threads rather than entire forum.
iratus parum formica
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #132 on: February 16, 2022, 02:24:35 pm »
Put a "Thanked" counter next to the "Posts" counter.
If you absolutely must do something.
I don't think that is a good idea; it has no statistical relevance. Either as an absolute or relative number. The more people post, the more they get thanked. On top of that there is the echo-chamber effect. Some thank when people agree even though what is written is questionable.

Just see a thanks as nodding your head you agree. IIRC thanking was originally added to get rid of 'I agree posts' that added nothing to the discussion.

To quote Mandy Rice-Davis: "Well he [nctnico, thanked ratio 12%] would say that, wouldn't he."


Cerebus [Thanked ratio 77%]  :-DD

(Yes I am kidding, I think the thanked ratio is wildly misleading)
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Online tautech

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #133 on: February 16, 2022, 02:26:53 pm »
A bigger question I have for you is why aren't you in bed?  ;)
And you have the perfect bladder ?

Quote
What I am proposing is perhaps an enthusiastic intermediate instead of a jaded 'expert'.

I posted the 'expert' video on an earlier page for shits and giggles. I have in my professional capacity assumed nearly all of those roles and quietly chuckled to myself the whole time. I'm suggesting, as an expert ;) , that the forum is ready to take this next step.

The problem is that the chosen person needs protection from 'experts' with a bad attitude. It needs to be understood that an intermediary is there to encourage beginners and reinforce their own understanding without the fear of being publicly humiliated.

Instead I believe the senior and capable members could use their forum profiles to better effect. It takes just a minute to change them and display your wished online status as I do when I go on annual fishing trips with the cuz.

There's no reason not to display your chosen skillset without a forum based one being foisted on you which as I have mentioned before might invite a plague of PM's seeking advice. Yes I get a few and if it gets outta hand one can easily modify your profile or signature unlike any title that you might be given.
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Offline Carel

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #134 on: February 16, 2022, 02:28:12 pm »
Just to put things in a perspective:

I looked it up in my statistics: 48 posts, 96 thanks, which makes me with a 200% score a very succesfull expert.

With my cat photo's.
 
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Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #135 on: February 16, 2022, 02:29:30 pm »
Cerebus [Thanked ratio 77%]  :-DD

As I explained in an earlier post. It seems to be because you post a picture of e.g. a broom, in the tea thread. Then get 5 thanks for it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3999280/#msg3999280

So, the tea thread seems to have put various users into the top of the most thanked lists. Rather than the merit of being most helpful members on this forum.

But of course you still could be the most helpful member here, as well.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #136 on: February 16, 2022, 02:30:58 pm »
Put a "Thanked" counter next to the "Posts" counter.
If you absolutely must do something.

Agreed on the "If you absolutely must do something".

I disagree, I think that the thanked figure is misleading and deserves to get no more prominence than it already has.

And I must be right, and you wrong, because your thanked ratio is only 28% but mine is 77%.  :-DD

OK, I can probably stop now. I hope that I've provided enough evidence that the thanked figures are not necessarily a helpful guide.
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Online magic

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #137 on: February 16, 2022, 02:34:24 pm »
Just to put things in a perspective:

I looked it up in my statistics: 48 posts, 96 thanks, which makes me with a 200% score a very succesfull expert.

With my cat photo's.
You win :-DD
I was about to ask if anyone can beat Noopy's 116%.

I see a trend here.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #138 on: February 16, 2022, 02:36:15 pm »
Put a "Thanked" counter next to the "Posts" counter.
If you absolutely must do something.

Agreed on the "If you absolutely must do something".

I disagree, I think that the thanked figure is misleading and deserves to get no more prominence than it already has.

And I must be right, and you wrong, because your thanked ratio is only 28% but mine is 77%.  :-DD

OK, I can probably stop now. I hope that I've provided enough evidence that the thanked figures are not necessarily a helpful guide.
Yes although they're easily found by clicking on a members profile which provides access to their thanked posts where you can further research why they were thanked. SMF makes doing your homework on a member dead easy and in my view is more useful that bestowing titles on members.
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #139 on: February 16, 2022, 02:36:24 pm »
A bigger question I have for you is why aren't you in bed?  ;)
And you have the perfect bladder ?

I piss in your general direction.  ;D
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Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #140 on: February 16, 2022, 02:40:40 pm »
IMHO a system where you self declare yourself an expert would be ideal with a Badge against their name to identify them... and then I could safely ignore their comments.

Actually... self declaration of expert status... sounds very 2022... the world really has gone mad.
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #141 on: February 16, 2022, 02:42:10 pm »
Cerebus [Thanked ratio 77%]  :-DD

As I explained in an earlier post. It seems to be because you post a picture of e.g. a broom, in the tea thread. Then get 5 thanks for it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3999280/#msg3999280

So, the tea thread seems to have put various users into the top of the most thanked lists. Rather than the merit of being most helpful members on this forum.

But of course you still could be the most helpful member here, as well.

Hey, give a chance, I'm trying to catch up here. I wasn't going to go off on a meta analysis of why the thanked ratio is what it is, just trying to point up that it's a useless metric as it stands, which I'd kind of hoped was obvious by using myself as a contra-example of its usefulness rather than picking on some other hapless soul and going "Look he has a high thanked ratio but he's a complete dick!".
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #142 on: February 16, 2022, 02:44:17 pm »
Put a "Thanked" counter next to the "Posts" counter.
If you absolutely must do something.

Agreed on the "If you absolutely must do something".

I disagree, I think that the thanked figure is misleading and deserves to get no more prominence than it already has.

And I must be right, and you wrong, because your thanked ratio is only 28% but mine is 77%.  :-DD

OK, I can probably stop now. I hope that I've provided enough evidence that the thanked figures are not necessarily a helpful guide.
Yes although they're easily found by clicking on a members profile which provides access to their thanked posts where you can further research why they were thanked. SMF makes doing your homework on a member dead easy and in my view is more useful that bestowing titles on members.

And today's "creepy stalker" prize goes to ...   :)
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #143 on: February 16, 2022, 02:47:36 pm »
Hey, give a chance, I'm trying to catch up here. I wasn't going to go off on a meta analysis of why the thanked ratio is what it is, just trying to point up that it's a useless metric as it stands, which I'd kind of hoped was obvious by using myself as a contra-example of its usefulness rather than picking on some other hapless soul and going "Look he has a high thanked ratio but he's a complete dick!".

Sorry, if I poked you.

I think the 'thanking' system, has its uses, for thanking posts, without needing to pollute a thread, with constant "I agree, Thanks!!", type of posts.
But on the other hand (as you have nicely shown in this thread), calculations based on its application and total received. Are not necessarily a reliable measure of a posters merits or other aspects of a poster.
 

Offline eugene

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #144 on: February 16, 2022, 03:01:57 pm »
All of the discussion about the Thanks button highlights the idea that individual answers should be ranked instead of individual posters. Perhaps there's a better way to implement this than Thanks button? Stack Exchange allows each of us to up/down vote an answer as being useful. I don't want the karma seeking to take over this forum, but a more specific rating system of posts (vs posters) would accomplish the goal described in the OP.

Moreover, this forum is not here to cater to drive-by newbies who come here with a question and then never return. An important part of learning is distinguishing between knowledge and nonsense. The best way for us to help is by ranking individual answers. A simple up vote would be useful. Also allowing down votes invites punishment of people that we just don't like for personal reasons, so while potentially being useful might lead to more problems than it's worth.

I guess what I'm advocating is something similar to the thanks button, but more specifically says "this is a good answer." My preference would be to leave the names of the voters confidential, but even the names might have value. How about simply changing the "Thanks" button to "This answer is useful"? Wouldn't even need to redo the statistics, just change the text on the button.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #145 on: February 16, 2022, 03:20:24 pm »
I guess what I'm advocating is something similar to the thanks button, but more specifically says "this is a good answer." My preference would be to leave the names of the voters confidential, but even the names might have value. How about simply changing the "Thanks" button to "This answer is useful"? Wouldn't even need to redo the statistics, just change the text on the button.
How is that different from the current way the thanks function works? IMHO the thanks system is OK as it is.

From my experience with Stackexchange and other fora the up/downvoting system doesn't work very well. In a significant number of cases the most upvoted solution is not the best one. I usually end up going through all the solutions anyway.
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Offline rstofer

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #146 on: February 16, 2022, 03:38:06 pm »
Wouldn't it be nice to get more feedback from topicstarters? And look how to encourage this? Without results an experts opinion is just an opinion, which it is for starters. considering the handicap of written words in other languages and the physical separation problem.

It is disappointing when an OP doesn't post back with the results of any offered solutions.  It's actually quite rare to find out if things worked out ok.  You're never sure if you helped or the OP went somewhere else for info.  A simple "Hey, it worked!" would be nice.
 
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Offline eugene

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #147 on: February 16, 2022, 03:51:32 pm »
I guess what I'm advocating is something similar to the thanks button, but more specifically says "this is a good answer." My preference would be to leave the names of the voters confidential, but even the names might have value. How about simply changing the "Thanks" button to "This answer is useful"? Wouldn't even need to redo the statistics, just change the text on the button.
How is that different from the current way the thanks function works? IMHO the thanks system is OK as it is.

It's different only in that "thanks" isn't really what we want to convey with the up vote. "I agree" is closer.

Quote
From my experience with Stackexchange and other fora the up/downvoting system doesn't work very well. In a significant number of cases the most upvoted solution is not the best one. I usually end up going through all the solutions anyway.

I agree with you that not everyone that votes agrees with each other. And, we should all read through all of the answers. The votes simply convey the degree to which the community thinks an answer is valuable. Isn't that what this thread is all about?
90% of quoted statistics are fictional
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #148 on: February 16, 2022, 04:26:40 pm »
OMG, just checked and I've been thanked 1000 times!   ;D
(not kidding, that's the precise number, 1000 thanks)

Now, how many medals do I get for such a round number?

 
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Offline eugene

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #149 on: February 16, 2022, 04:35:59 pm »
It'll be more impressive when you get to 1024 thanks.
90% of quoted statistics are fictional
 
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