Poll

What do you think about having designated "Expert" forum users?

I don't like it
126 (71.6%)
Maybe
26 (14.8%)
I like it
24 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 174

Author Topic: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?  (Read 51857 times)

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Offline Carel

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #150 on: February 16, 2022, 04:41:45 pm »
OMG, just checked and I've been thanked 1000 times!   ;D
(not kidding, that's the precise number, 1000 thanks)

Now, how many medals do I get for such a round number?


Dear exalted member, the photo illustrated exactly the problems our dearly beloved expert leaders face: like when to order a wider uniform, a wider and higher chair, or when finally let their inseparable underlings carry and display all their garbage.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #151 on: February 16, 2022, 05:39:39 pm »
- The most important counter argument is that science does not work by voting.  Science is not a democracy, and it is not about what people like or what people think.  Science and its derivatives, like engineering, are independent of crowd's belief.
(..)

That would be funny if science would resolve itself by voting....  ::)
Actually it kind of is. Science is truth by consensus.
No it's not. A consensus on a theory doesn't always mean it's right. The astronomer Galileo was proof of that. In the last two years, there are plenty of things which were believed to be correct, by a large number of scientists, yet are now widely contested.
-off topic-
And how it that not truth by consensus?  ;)

Truth by consensus means that a previously proven theory is regarded as being true until someone comes along and proves (by using new/better methods and insights) it is not. That is how science works and always has worked for centuries. In hindsight it is easy to say 'look, those idiots where wrong all that time' but that is just hindsight. And then there are cases where it is better to be cautious and accept a safe theory that is not fully proven / disproven yet.
There's the actual, real, objective truth and there's the consensus, which is just what the majority of people believe to be true at the time.


Each user can see who thanked him (it is nice to know who are one's friends, isn't it?  :) ), but statistics about thanked/found-useful posts for each user are not public.

Yes they are, but as usual the SMF user interface is less than helpful in guiding you to find them. Summary statistics are hidden at the bottom of the forum index page, and you can see any users 'thanked' count by looking them up in the members list.

You have been thanked on average 0.27 times per post whereas I have been thanked on average 0.77 times per post. That to my mind conclusively proves that any metric based around thanks is worthless because while I like to hope I'm a useful contributor from time to time I most certainly don't think I'm the über contributor that statistic would seem to imply.

There's also the issue you allude to but don't express directly: "Any metric once created will be gamed". Someone will play in such a way as to inflate the metric rather than to behave in the way the metric was supposed to measure positively for, wasting time trying to bolster the metric rather than doing something useful to produce the outcome the metric was intended to measure. I don't think anybody is currently gaming the thanks statistics, but if they were given prominence they would almost certainly become "gamed".

If anyone needs any more convincing that "Thanks" as is currently implemented is a useless metric, here it is. This is the top 10 most thanked people, as spat out by SMFs stats. I've added number of posts and calculated a "Thanks per post" ratio as a percentage.
User       ThankedPostsThanks to post ratio
med6753    1063410178104.48%
bd139      1040420506 50.74%
EEVblog    860033942 25.34%
Cerebus    7288 9403 77.51%
mnementh    604515133 39.95%
tautech    492623059 21.36%
james_s    440416959 25.97%
BU508A      4012 3803105.50%
T3sl4co1l  368018610 19.77%
tggzzz      353114611 24.17%
You forgot Noopy, with a thanks to post ratio of 116%, probably because nearly everyone of his posts is an interesting dieshot, which more than one person likes.

Another thing to note is the thank you button only came in around 2015, so older users who made many posts before then, will have a lower ratio, than newer ones. You'd have to factor this in to get a more accurate picture.


Quote
Note how that puts Tim (T3sl4co1l) at the bottom of the ranking by "Thanks per post", one of the most useful contributors (arguably the most useful) on the forum and Mounty (BU508A) at the top, who while being a sterling chap, and very generous to boot, isn't in Tim's league (Sorry Mounty). (Note, these are only the top 10 thanked, so the ranking on the ratio of thanks per post is only out of these 10 posters, not the whole forum.)
I agree.
 
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Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #152 on: February 16, 2022, 06:35:24 pm »
It'll be more impressive when you get to 1024 thanks.

1024?  Why?  (100 0000 0000)2 maybe, but I'm no camel with 2 toes, I have 10 fingers!

But then I realized, our base 10 system is wrong!   :o
Let me demonstrate why:

- We use Base 10 because with 10 fingers one can represent any number from 0 to 10, right?
- Let's write that down: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, correct?

- But that would need a total of 11 distinct symbols.
- Therefore our Base 10 system is wrong.

Should have been Base 11, or else said Base A!   ^-^

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #153 on: February 16, 2022, 06:41:35 pm »
Now, how many medals do I get for such a round number?

Your eyes deceive you.  Those ain't medals.  They are targets for the anti-aircraft gunners.
 

Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #154 on: February 16, 2022, 06:43:51 pm »
It'll be more impressive when you get to 1024 thanks.

1024?  Why?  (100 0000 0000)2 maybe, but I'm no camel with 2 toes, I have 10 fingers!

But then I realized, our base 10 system is wrong!   :o
Let me demonstrate why:

- We use Base 10 because with 10 fingers one can represent any number from 0 to 10, right?
- Let's write that down: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, correct?

- But that would need a total of 11 distinct symbols.
- Therefore our Base 10 system is wrong.

Should have been Base 11, or else said Base A!   ^-^

NO!

10 Fingers = 2^10 = 1024 Thanks needed.
Or 1023, if you want to be pedantic and start from 0 Thanks.
N.B. I wouldn't jest over such a serious matter.   ;)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 06:47:51 pm by MK14 »
 
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #155 on: February 16, 2022, 06:51:59 pm »
I often argue with the experts, either because I want to know exactly why we disagree, or because they consider their expert status more important than providing correct information.  So no, I don't like the idea for such badges.  Besides, I'm too easy to socially manipulate – that kind of sparkly things easily lead me astray –, but cannot in good conscience really claim to be an expert on anything; definitely don't have any accredited paperwork saying so.  I really dislike the Stack Exchange voting mechanism, because it pushes most popular answers at the top, with the assumption that they are the most correct or most useful.  Yet, popularity is no indication of correctness or usefulness; only popularity.  I don't like popularity games.

What I would love to see, instead, is an Agree button.  While functionality would be the same as with the Thanks button (which I admit I often use to indicate the combination of agreement and gratitude), its use and usefulness really would be orthogonal.

In many ways, such an "X, Y, and Z agree" list at the end of the post might actually serve the need Dave is wondering about this.  Having the list of users who do actually agree would be essential for example new users to evaluate the value of such agreement, by simply clicking on the names and looking at those members most recent posts.  No better way to evaluate someones output, than actually looking at said output in its proper context (reading entire threads discussing problems).
It would be an easy, quick way for other members to show their agreement, without filling the thread with "Agreed." type of posts (which we seem to avoid).

I often find myself wanting to just show that I agree with a post, because I myself have an earlier post on some aspect of the topic at hand, and simply just agree with a later post.  Right now, I'm limited to "Thanking", or posting a silly "I agree." post, so I usually don't, unless I have additional related examples/suggestions/etc.
I'm hoping it would not be seen as a "DO THIS!" endorsement, but more like nods and agreement when discussing a problem over a coffee or other beverage among colleagues, in a poster session in an academic environment, or when helping a coworker with an annoying or problematic detail.

Of course, this has its own risks, and might not work too well either; I'm no expert.
 
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Offline alexnoot

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #156 on: February 16, 2022, 06:54:04 pm »
May I please be titled 'Expert lurker'? Or maybe 'Expert procrastinator'? Can't really decide, but it must be shiny either way...

But seriously though. I mostly lurk here, I enjoy reading all the insightful posts from other members. Having been here a while, I feel there are some users that you just recognize as 'trusted' based on what you've read from them in other posts. I don't feel like labels would help in any way in this matter. And, as mentioned by several others, who's to decide what 'expert' means, and who's worthy of such titles? Seems like a lot of work, and a lot of potential complaints.
I don't post much myself, mainly because I don't feel like I have much to contribute, and also sorting my thoughts into lines of readable text representing what I want to say often takes more effort than it should. At the time of writing this, I have 21 posts and 21 thanks (mostly from topics started by a certain you-know-who). My 1:1 ratio feels pretty worthless and undeserved in my opinion, likes thanks are often 'abused' and don't necessarily always represent good content/answers. Some users really do deserve them, but at the end of the day they're still just internet points.

Having more trust 'forced' upon me by means of expert labels would only feel more intimidating, how could my tiny opinion ever have any weight against an expert, etc? New users will need to learn for themselves who to trust and not to trust, and if they only come by for an easy answer - never to return, are they wanted as users anyway?
 
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Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2022, 07:07:54 pm »


10 Fingers = 2^10 = 1024 Thanks needed.

Wow, correct!  Thanks giving!
MK14, please accept a few more medals:

 
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Offline Sredni

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #158 on: February 16, 2022, 07:10:13 pm »
stackoverflow  forum does that with an alternative approach which IMHO functions very well when searching  answers for particular recurrent issues...

The FORUM RATES ANSWERS  .... instead of particular egos...
answers are voted and achieves a "mark" which otherwise function as a very good directive...

It should be  approximately the same thing where users with a high number of collected marks are obviously rated better....

better than egos.
2 cents.
Paul

This.
Just change (or maybe add, because of retrocompability problems) the "Thanks" button into a "X members think this is a good technical solution" or something like that. Not as ambiguous as a generic "thanks".
But do not add a counter in the poster's profile. And don't bother to make the names known, it will become unwieldy once users are instructed to vote for good technical answers as much as possible..
This will prevent 'point farming' and ego problems (something that can be found on Stack Exchange)

Make the answer count, not who posted it.
I may be the world's most revered expert in boiled eggs, but my casserole might suck big time.
If I serve you boiled eggs, you will reward my eggs and beginners will know my boiled eggs are good.
If I serve you a casserole, nobody will eat it ("think it is a good culinary solution") and beginners might want to try something else on the menu.


All instruments lie. Usually on the bench.
 

Online bdunham7

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2022, 07:12:26 pm »
May I please be titled 'Expert lurker'? Or maybe 'Expert procrastinator'? Can't really decide, but it must be shiny either way...

Just for fun I went back and thanked all your posts.  Your ratio should be about 200% by now, so possibly the highest on EEVBlog. Expect a medal in the mail.   :-DD

I think of EEVBlog as a peer group.  That doesn't mean we are all the same or have the same level of expertise, but rather that the overall tone is more dialectic than help desk.  Gettiing a 'correct' answer to a specific question misses the point, although if an answer is truly needed, often one is provided.  The fact that answers may differ is not a bug, it's a feature. 
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #160 on: February 16, 2022, 07:57:18 pm »
Just for fun I went back and thanked all your posts.  Your ratio should be about 200% by now, so possibly the highest on EEVBlog. Expect a medal in the mail.   :-DD

I pointed out earlier that as soon as you introduce some metric (or folks become aware of it), people will game it. Thank you for proving me right.  :-DD  :-DD
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #161 on: February 16, 2022, 08:04:13 pm »
A puzzle question, for anyone who wants to participate.

Which user, has (currently) thanked the most users ?

Clue: If you think hard about it, you can probably guess who that user is.

I don't necessarily know the correct answer, but the highest I know about, currently, is at 181 pages of thanks given to others.
 
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Offline alexnoot

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #162 on: February 16, 2022, 08:05:22 pm »
Just for fun I went back and thanked all your posts.  Your ratio should be about 200% by now, so possibly the highest on EEVBlog. Expect a medal in the mail.   :-DD

I think of EEVBlog as a peer group.  That doesn't mean we are all the same or have the same level of expertise, but rather that the overall tone is more dialectic than help desk.  Gettiing a 'correct' answer to a specific question misses the point, although if an answer is truly needed, often one is provided.  The fact that answers may differ is not a bug, it's a feature.
Medal? No, I want to exchange my shiny internet points for shiny bitcoins or something :-DD

And I do agree, there is seldom only one correct answer. The problem with experts is that they can be stuck in their way of thinking, and anyone thinking differently is in their opinion wrong.
An example for me would be in school as a kid, a teacher wants problem X solved, and I solved the problem. But it is wrong, that's not the way I taught you to solve it! But my answer is correct, and I did it this way? ...
Teaching that there is only one correct answer is obviously wrong, but the great thing about a forum is that anyone can voice their opinion equally and discuss X, Y and Z. But an expert might have a strong opinion on X as the answer and will use their 'power' to their advantage. A discussion free from labels is more beneficial in my opinion.
 
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Online Gyro

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #163 on: February 16, 2022, 08:23:40 pm »


That photo is a classic!  :-DD

I wonder what the guy, third from the right got his dangling medal for!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 08:26:36 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #164 on: February 16, 2022, 08:34:14 pm »
Is a photo showing the back of the first row ? ::)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 08:36:39 pm by Bud »
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Carel

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #165 on: February 16, 2022, 08:43:53 pm »

That photo is a classic!  :-DD

I wonder what the guy, third from the right got his dangling medal for!

For not pissing on the parade.
 

Offline Carel

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #166 on: February 16, 2022, 09:10:40 pm »
And not a single "jar lid" on anyone in the background. It would disturb the uniformity of the cannon fodder This is where a trend ends.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #167 on: February 16, 2022, 09:12:26 pm »
No, I want to exchange my shiny internet points for shiny bitcoins or something :-DD
Shiny bitcoins? Biny shitcoins? Binary shitcoins?  Now that is an apt term for discussion board badges and popularity score accomplishments.
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #168 on: February 16, 2022, 09:16:00 pm »
I don't understand what is wrong with the existing Thanked User system here. The first one to answer with the nearest solution is marked by consensus.

It's used a bit but I guess not often enough to be really useful. No one looks every beginner thread and gives a rate unlike say StackExchange.
Maybe it's just not possible on a chat forum based system to solve this, it's just the wrong platform to even try? Horses for courses so to speak. Stack Exchange will always do it way better?

I thank people for particularly useful answers that I want to be able to search on and find again in the future if I need to see them again.

Dave, I just want to thank you for setting up eevblog and all the work you put into it. Its a huge amount of fun and Ive learned countless super useful things both here and in your videos.

Also, I realized the other day, forums like this one are very positive for promoting world peace. And making us realize that life is not a zero sum game.

We have people from all over the world and when we're here we're all trying to solve problems together, and you know we really do care about one another.  Thats a really great thing.  So again, thank you, ALL, a lot!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2022, 09:21:29 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #169 on: February 16, 2022, 09:28:48 pm »
Ouch!
If they make it to retirement, in one piece, thats pretty good. As you point out @jpanhalt many don't.

Now, how many medals do I get for such a round number?

Your eyes deceive you.  Those ain't medals.  They are targets for the anti-aircraft gunners.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #170 on: February 16, 2022, 09:57:03 pm »
It sounds good but I am not in favour of one official answer for everything or maybe as an idea on as a last resort on "call in basis" where there is a thread with no responses for long time or it is agreeable that members don't know and they are called in and forced to provide an answer.

What I like here sometimes are when members argue over different ways or methods of achieving the same thing.

Each way having it's pro's and con's.

I learn from that.

I like to make my own choice based on those arguments and any research or work contributed by the members that may benefit rather than an official answer.
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #171 on: February 16, 2022, 11:51:37 pm »
...
I don't necessarily know the correct answer, but the highest I know about, currently, is at 181 pages of thanks given to others.

200 pages here  8)

But who you are talking about would likely be higher, if you include all of their accounts.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 
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Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #172 on: February 16, 2022, 11:56:55 pm »
...
I don't necessarily know the correct answer, but the highest I know about, currently, is at 181 pages of thanks given to others.

200 pages here  8)

But who you are talking about would likely be higher, if you include all of their accounts.

Congratulations, absolutely spot on (well spotted, a forest of accounts hasn't fooled you   ;)  )!

The highest I've found (after my original post), is now up to 224 pages. BD139:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=showposts;sa=thanked;u=143772

Other tea thread regulars, could be better.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #173 on: February 17, 2022, 01:26:45 am »
Congratulations, absolutely spot on (well spotted, a forest of accounts hasn't fooled you   ;)  )!

The highest I've found (after my original post), is now up to 224 pages. BD139:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=showposts;sa=thanked;u=143772

Other tea thread regulars, could be better.

*447 pages for Mr BD you found.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 

Online MK14

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Re: Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
« Reply #174 on: February 17, 2022, 01:35:49 am »
Congratulations, absolutely spot on (well spotted, a forest of accounts hasn't fooled you   ;)  )!

The highest I've found (after my original post), is now up to 224 pages. BD139:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=showposts;sa=thanked;u=143772

Other tea thread regulars, could be better.

*447 pages for Mr BD you found.

You're right. I messed up, and had the wrong button/option set. I quoted the total thanks they have received, rather than the thanks they have given to others.

Also, they have given an amazing 11,152 thanks to other people.  Maybe we should request they get renamed to Father Christmas (Joke).

A new winner (with 699 pages, currently):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=118104;area=showposts;sa=thank;start=17450
With 17,465 thanks given to other posters
« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 01:44:36 am by MK14 »
 
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