General > General Technical Chat
Designated "Expert" Forum Users?
magic:
If you split "thanks" into "thanks" and "agree", you will be splitting them into four categories next year :scared:
Pedantry (you can also choose to read it: autism ::)) is what fuels sites like W***pedia and St*ck and pedantry runaway is what inevitably drives even the pedants out of there. Yes, using a single "like" button for every form of positive reaction is silly. But better silly than pedant and no one is forced to use it in the first place - the old "reply" button still works for those willing to put in enough effort to actually elaborate on what they agree with, so as not to look silly by simply clicking "like".
Those people will always feel silly by clicking certain canned response buttons in certain situations, no matter how many buttons there are. The solution isn't more buttons, but fewer - they are a silly idea in the first place :P
"Thanks" was supposed to remove pollution with single line posts saying "thank you" or "cool project bro". I ask, where are the threads polluted with single line "I agree" posts?
thinkfat:
IMHO, a public display of the "thanks" counter can be a valuable contribution to overall forum climate.
As it is public, people will in general seek to increase it. And I think they will find out it helps not to be a total jack-ass.
An option to disable the public display for one's personal profile, for those who absolutely despise it, would be welcome.
wilfred:
--- Quote from: Halcyon on February 18, 2022, 02:00:53 am ---
* What problem/deficiency are we attempting to solve by implementing this?
--- End quote ---
That's the key question. Hard to solve a problem before you clearly know what it is. It is the same with "thanks". I use thanks to reward someone who put some effort into helping someone. Using it to say "I agree with this" is the thing that needs to be resolved there. It devalues the thanks.
Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: magic on February 19, 2022, 08:19:32 am ---"Thanks" was supposed to remove pollution with single line posts saying "thank you" or "cool project bro". I ask, where are the threads polluted with single line "I agree" posts?
--- End quote ---
The "I agree" would solve a completely different problem: when someone asks a question, with one or a couple of suggestions, but no further discussion; and to help new members assess suggestions provided (if existing contributing members started endorsing suggestions they consider worthwhile especially in the Beginner forum).
Because we do not want to pollute the threads with "I agree" posts, we are now silent, and in many cases leave the askers hanging, with beginners having difficulties in assessing suggestions they receive. Elsewhere, threads often suddenly end with a final suggestion, but nobody can tell exactly why the thread ended there: whether it happened because the suggestion was good, or perhaps because the suggestion is so silly everyone else got fed up with the topic and moved to more interesting things. We cannot tell. The purpose of the Agree/Endorse button would be to help with this.
The purpose of an Agree button is to not avoid single line posts, but to solve the above problem. Functionally, the Agree/Endorsement is similar to existing Thanks, but its purpose is completely orthogonal/independent/separate.
I do not know whether the forum needs it. I do not know whether having separate Thanks and Agree/Endorse buttons is better, or if merging the current Agree button into Agree/Endorse (into Thanks/Endorse, say) is better. I only know that there is an underlying problem (as I once again describe here above), that prompted Dave to consider designating "Expert" Forum Users. How big is that problem, I do not know. But I know that most experienced members that feel comfortable participating here are the most unlikely to perceive that problem, or acknowledge it exists. My own experience says the problem exists. I am suggesting options for Dave to consider, and others to shoot down by showing why the suggestions would not work, and hopefully suggest something that has a better chance of working.
I do know that adding upvote/downvote counters will not help with this problem. Thus far, everywhere they've been used that I know of, they devolve into measuring popularity only, with minimal to no correlation to usefulness or correctness at all.
Claiming that adding this one feature will inevitably lead to a proliferation of such features, and therefore should be rejected, is nonsensical. It is arguing a step should not be taken because it is likely to lead to additional steps and walking that far is undesirable. There is nothing automatic in this, nothing that indicates the one step would be followed by further, similar steps. Adding even a single step like this is very nontrivial.
(I know, having looked at the exact sources for the Say Thanks extension, that I could easily craft the new plugin; but the security specialist in me says that Dave would be silly to trust me, someone they've considered a Troll at not so distant past. In fact, my advice to Dave is to not trust anyone without having several eyeball checks by people with experience in server-side PHP, carefully checking and comparing such new extension to the existing Say Thanks one for suspicious differences. I know several members here who could do such checking, but again, the security specialist in me says that me mentioning their names should immediately disqualify them. [I did mention my approach to security issues has been described "paranoid"; but it is effective.])
Besides, if I were to help with such a new extension, I would only do so if the current Thanked: numerical counter is removed first, because I believe such numerical counters cause more harm than can be regained by a separate Agreed/Endorsement button would.
MK14:
--- Quote from: thinkfat on February 19, 2022, 09:58:23 am ---people will in general seek to increase it
--- End quote ---
Which is the exact reason why it shouldn't be displayed (the totals), for anyone.
Users should be posting, because they want to, it is fun, they want to help people. If they see the thread starter (OP), mostly/fully ignore the posters in their thread. Those same people will stop posting in that thread (perhaps), and stop replying to that OP.
Making people post, because that counter/line GOES UP, UP UP .....
Means that they are posting for different (and arguably the WRONG) reasons.
So you might get quick, not necessarily that accurate posts, which the poster considers are enough to get more THANKS (counts). But the posts are just quick, not especially useful ones. (Dare I point people to the Tea thread, to see what happens, when the posts are mainly orientated to get thanks, in my opinion). Hence things like, post a cat picture or post a dog picture, type of threads.
Which can cause (motivate people), to create all sorts of CAT/DOG/RANT/YOUTUBE-VIDEO content threads, to attract THANKS (counts).
Which (can) then leads on to lots of off-topic threads, uninteresting threads for those wanting real technical threads, on a forum they are a member of. It can then attract the wrong sort of new forum members (not trying to be rude, but imagine if a facebook cat lover, joins, just to post in the CAT thread, Cooking Threads area and post crazy/silly electronics questions, which are so hapless, that no one here, can possibly help them).
So a THANKS orientated forum, might sound like a very good idea. The intentions were all there, all good ones. But in practice, it can lead to damage/destruction of the forum, in reality.
Example:
I'm already fed up with the thanks counter being so visible and feel rather inadequacy being on here, as there are so many, members, with thousands and thousands of thanks. It makes me feel bad. Even though, I know in some cases. It just meant they participated in one of the overly popular threads, and/or have been especially helpful to lots of people.
tl;dr
It could cause a considerably reduction in the proper/longer/decent technical forum posts. Which some here, are really looking for. Hence an increase in much less useful, Cat/Dog/Tea like threads, which some of us just are NOT interested in, most of the time. (The Tea thread can be interesting, but in a proper technical way, it is more of a quick chat, post a picture and get lots of thanks counts for it, type of thread. From what I have seen of it).
N.B. I don't mind there being such threads, but if THANKS counts, being visible. Makes such threads, increase out of control. I'd be disappointed.
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