Designated "Expert" Forum Users?

[PlainName]

if you like forums that are entirely about the content which stands alone

The value of the post in relation to the thread. Not the forum, not the poster, not other threads.

In whose opinion?  Do I even care about their opinion?  Hint:  I'm too old to care!

This whole topic is about drive-by questions (and ego points but I'll let that rest awhile).  The OP has an ill defined problem and often doesn't reply back when the other users have questions that need to be resolved before a solution can be proposed.  As stated above, they don't want to learn the approach to finding a solution, they want a quick number.  A hit-and-run question...

And they haven't even tried Google.  All of human knowledge is available on Google including an answer to their question.  Quick self-survey, how many times have you used a Google link to answer a question without adding much personal content?  Sometimes Wikipedia has really good explanations.

Even reading the Wiki seems to be too much effort, they just want a number and they want somebody else to do the work for them.  And complain when they don't get it in the first reply.  So they want to identify the experts and will probably wonder why none of them have responded.  Are the experts really going to get involved with every question posted in every forum?  It's going to be a full time job!

Numbers guys:  What is the average number of new threads opened per day?

So, they can go an Google or read a book or... why bother coming here at all when all the answers are Out There just waiting for a simple search?

We are discussing beginners (no necessarily in electronics, but maybe just a different niche that is new to them). Often a problem is ill-defined because they don't know enough about it to know what's relevant, useful or just waffling. Maybe if they can post something on-track someone will point out exactly what extra is needed, or where to go for a better resolution or something.

If you can't abide people coming on to ask apparently dumb or useless questions, and demand their google search history before accepting they've already researched the stuff, maybe you could just not join that thread. Ignore them and either someone else will sort them out or no-one will, but it's no skin off your nose.

[rstofer]

I would also suggest that users' 'valuable' count isn't shown (as the thanks count is now). It's not about who posted and entirely about the content, which stands alone.

If nobody can see it, who does see it?  And what does it mean if only the author of a reply can see it?  Why keep a statistic and then hide it?  After all, we're trying to tag the experts without flashing their username in bright colors and somehow super-size their replies.  Ordinary users won't have a valuable count because the experts will have already posted the correct answer - by definition.

[SiliconWizard]

But I'm not surprised Dave got this kind of suggestion. As I said, many people these days just want quick answers to their questions, without having to further work on understanding the answers, checking that they are relevant. They just want quick recipes and move on. That's the opposite of learning.

But it is "efficient", a well known modern mantra.

I don't even think it's globally efficient. It just makes people increasingly dependent instead of helping them get independent to some degree, which IMO learning is all about.
And making people dependent is itself a "modern mantra."

[rstofer]

If you can't abide people coming on to ask apparently dumb or useless questions, and demand their google search history before accepting they've already researched the stuff, maybe you could just not join that thread. Ignore them and either someone else will sort them out or no-one will, but it's no skin off your nose.

I think my track record is a little better than that but...

Where would you expect to get a better introduction to Ohm's Law?  Here or on one of the myriad sites that have videos, examples and a lot of explanation?  It sure wouldn't be here!  Nor should it be.  It's been done, it's out there and Google can find it.

Now, if you want to know how to apply Ohm's Law to the bias of a Class A amplifier using a 2N3904 with emitter degeneration, this might be one of the best sites for that kind of thing.  There are some folks here who really add content to that discussion.  But it's not going to be a simple "use these resistors" kind of answer (probably).  There might even be some arithmetic involved.  Probably some discussion.  It won't be a hit and run answer.

[rstofer]

So, they can go an Google or read a book or... why bother coming here at all when all the answers are Out There just waiting for a simple search?

For the diversity in the replies. There isn't just one expert answer, there are usually several people involved and the discussion wanders all over the place.  That's a good thing!  It won't give the OP a single numeric answer from a single source but it will expose multiple solutions, some better, some less costly, some already built.  Check the Porch Pirate thread in Beginners.  The OP had a solution, mine was cheaper and faster.  It was completely opposite of what the OP thought he wanted but just posting an alternative point of view may have added value to the thread.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/anti-porch-pirate-alarm/

I didn't even attempt to stay on track, I proposed an alternative.  That's why people should come here - diversity of opinion.  Lots of diversity...

[thinkfat]

Google is of course a good source of information. If you're able to "drink from the hose", that is. It's like the "all-seeing, all-knowing trash heap". It gives a lot of answers. Are those good answers? Who knows. Which is why people come here in the hope of getting a "good" answer.

A "good" answer is not necessarily an expert answer. A good answer is one that puts them on the right track.

[nctnico]

Google is of course a good source of information. If you're able to "drink from the hose", that is. It's like the "all-seeing, all-knowing trash heap". It gives a lot of answers. Are those good answers? Who knows. Which is why people come here in the hope of getting a "good" answer.

A "good" answer is not necessarily an expert answer. A good answer is one that puts them on the right track.

Agreed. Even if the answer is just a link to an article with good content. Internet is filled with garbage and sifting through it to find the good stuff is a skill in itself.

[MK14]

Google is of course a good source of information. If you're able to "drink from the hose", that is. It's like the "all-seeing, all-knowing trash heap". It gives a lot of answers. Are those good answers? Who knows. Which is why people come here in the hope of getting a "good" answer.

A "good" answer is not necessarily an expert answer. A good answer is one that puts them on the right track.

The problem, if you're a total beginner in a subject area. Is that you don't know the terms to put into Google, in the first place.
E.g. Things I sometimes see on here, but example is made up, rather than an actual poster.

They want a device to make voltages bigger. They don't know that it would be called an amplifier, op-amps are commonly used to make them, and they can be made (with significant difficulty), via discrete transistors.

But A true beginner, might be so vague with their terms, it could confuse google and/or they wouldn't know which answers are correct. E.g. A device which makes small electricity into bigger electricity, suitable for driving a sound making device.

I just tried it, and Google came up with:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier

But there are many cases where Google just can't help.

E.g. You want a particular clip type, for fixing a pair of transistors together, and don't know what it is called. But have seen it in some radios. Also why do they clip transistors together like that ?
A beginner might ask. A more experienced person expert might say it is because the old Germanium Transistors, changed their characteristics a lot with temperature, so the clip is to help stabilize the circuit.

[rstofer]

Google is of course a good source of information. If you're able to "drink from the hose", that is. It's like the "all-seeing, all-knowing trash heap". It gives a lot of answers. Are those good answers? Who knows. Which is why people come here in the hope of getting a "good" answer.

A "good" answer is not necessarily an expert answer. A good answer is one that puts them on the right track.

OP questions are more interesting if there is some display of effort before posting.  "Here's what I did, here's what I got and here's what I want" shows effort.  A simple "Here's what I want" may not be as interesting.  If questions aren't interesting, there may not be as many replies.  Perhaps questions get more interesting as the replies pile in.

Apparently, the OP should be able to filter the replies and reject all that aren't from experts.  As I understand it, that is the objective.  But, hell, if all my effort is going to be ignored, why bother replying at all?  Let the experts do the work!  Who's the expert for driveway alarms?

[rstofer]

But there are many cases where Google just can't help.

There's nothing wrong with admitting your Google Foo failed.  It happens all the time.  One missing term and all you get is nonsense.  For the amplifier, including "signal" in the query helps focus the replies.  But it still shows effort!  "I searched for <some query> and didn't get the results I want.  I want to increase the signal voltage of a <some input device> to <some output>."  It shows effort!  At least the question is coherent.

On the list of things, poorly framed questions is pretty far down.  You're right, absolute beginners won't have any idea about how to frame a question.  And that's OK but that's why we need multiple replies to help the process along.  One expert answer might just blow the poster away.  Another beginner (or near beginner) may provide just the response the OP needs.  "I was working on that very thing last week.  Have you tried ...".

It seems to me that what we have is working in the vast majority of cases.  Replies are plentiful, adequate and, most important, respectful.  It's working well, let's not break it.

[PlainName]

I would also suggest that users' 'valuable' count isn't shown (as the thanks count is now). It's not about who posted and entirely about the content, which stands alone.

If nobody can see it, who does see it?

The author, on his profile page.

  And what does it mean if only the author of a reply can see it?

It means the author feels good (or not if he has a zero count, maybe). Isn't that enough?

Why keep a statistic and then hide it?

Yes, quite, let's just not keep the static at all. But some people will whine, and it is nice to know that one is appreciated, so it's not entirely surplus. But why would you want the world to know the count unless it's to massage your ego? That way is heading to the thing we're trying to prevent: playing the stats.

After all, we're trying to tag the experts without flashing their username in bright colors and somehow super-size their replies.

Er, no we're not. That was a suggestion to help beginners because they can't tell from the myriad (hopefully!) responses which are bullshit and which are pukka. The first solution was "we can sey XXX is an expert so their replies count more than anyone elses", but as pointed out earlier that could be a forum killer.

What we are actually trying to do is not identify users with badges but the content which is appropriate and useful. That may or may not come from alleged experts, and you only have to look at a recent windy exchange as to how apparently knowledgeable users can spout complete rubbish in the face of contrary evidence.

[PlainName]

Where would you expect to get a better introduction to Ohm's Law?

As a beginner I might not know I need to learn about Ohm's Law. But maybe someone will tell me "Hey, you really need to know Ohm's Law and a good video introduction is xxx". Maybe that would give me a clue on what to google, too.

[HobGoblyn]

One of my pet hates is when someone asks something and someone else responds with a sarcastic answer along the lines of “a 5 second google ………”

First it’s rude,

Second, it could be argued that 95% + of technical forum questions could be answered by googling, probably 99.9% when it comes to beginners, so why bother having say a beginners section in the first place, why not simply have a message telling beginners that all their questions can be answered by using google.

Third, very often a beginner doesn’t quite understand exactly what they are asking, hence isn’t sure on what to actually google.

A 3D printer Facebook group I belong to, the owner recently posted the following

———————————————————————————

NOTICE:

There was an instance yesterday where a beginner was ridiculed for not knowing what another member decided he should know and un-kind comments were made.

I have guaranteed since the creation of this group that all members will have a pleasant experience here.  Do not treat this group like others on Facebook I will not tolerate any user being unkind,  telling users to use Google,  telling users to RTFM,  making smart comments.   I will not give any warning,  if I see it,  or am informed about such behaviour from a moderator or admin,  I will immediately ban members from this group without warning.

There is no such thing as a dumb question and I do not care how many times its been asked before.  Either answer the question or post nothing.   

New and inexperienced users are welcome in my group and can ask any questions they feel they need to ask without fear of ridicule.

[Carel]

Which (can) then leads on to lots of off-topic threads, uninteresting threads for those wanting real technical threads, on a forum they are a member of. It can then attract the wrong sort of new forum members (not trying to be rude, but imagine if a facebook cat lover, joins, just to post in the CAT thread, Cooking Threads area and post crazy/silly electronics questions, which are so hapless, that no one here, can possibly help them).

Always watch out with assumptions, with your facebook cat lover.

In my second post (in cats) I explained what my activities were. Maybe someone else was interested, doing the same. DIY pet RFID is a vanishing thing on the internet. So be it. So I tried if it came up to help other people with other problems and if it came up, post a picture of my cats. People wanted unique photo's, not internet grabs.

So now I have these strange and wrong statistics on the left side of my post. Just because someone tries to make somehow statistics work, where you should'nt apply them. It is a stain.

And the horrible look this discussion gives inside of the workings of a forum. Any, if that makes you feel better.

[Someone]

One of my pet hates is when someone asks something and someone else responds with a sarcastic answer along the lines of “a 5 second google ………”

First it’s rude,

But its not rude to walk into a public area and ask a question so banal that it could be answered by googling the exact terms the OP uses? It shows stupidity and a desire from the OP to do no work, and someone who will likely just ask again and again with every little thing. Perpetuate/support/cultivate that and you have a forum full of crud and very little interesting content to bring/keep the knowledgeable people in.

Contrast with these better explained examples:

OP questions are more interesting if there is some display of effort before posting.  "Here's what I did, here's what I got and here's what I want" shows effort.  A simple "Here's what I want" may not be as interesting.  If questions aren't interesting, there may not be as many replies.  Perhaps questions get more interesting as the replies pile in.

There's nothing wrong with admitting your Google Foo failed.  It happens all the time.  One missing term and all you get is nonsense.  For the amplifier, including "signal" in the query helps focus the replies.  But it still shows effort!  "I searched for <some query> and didn't get the results I want.  I want to increase the signal voltage of a <some input device> to <some output>."  It shows effort!  At least the question is coherent.

[rstofer]

And then there is the Sticky at the top of the Beginners forum "NEWBIES PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING" - with over 300k reads.  It suggests the same show of effort as in my posts above!  It suggests that newbies put as much info as possible in the question and admonishes more advanced responders to be polite.

It seems to be working well.  I don't ever recall seeing a question get hammered.  Sometimes they seem a little barren but it usually works out over the first few replies.

[PlainName]

and admonishes more advanced responders to be polite

Small pedantic correction - it asks 'regulars' to be polite. 'Admonish' is telling off after the fact (which, admittedly, could be appropriate in some cases).

[Cerebus]

One of my pet hates is when someone asks something and someone else responds with a sarcastic answer along the lines of “a 5 second google ………”

Usually by the same kind of people who get on better with computers than with other people.

The thing is that all people are different, I can happily sit down and learn how to do something practical (pottery say) from a book, whereas my other half would much, much prefer to learn it from another person, so goes and takes a class somewhere. So I do my things my way, she does hers her way. Neither of us feels the need to throw little passive aggressive barbs at each other the way that the "Let me Google that for you" kind of person does.

Some people are just happier talking to another human being to find things out, some people are happy to help them with that, why can't the "Let me Google that for you" crowd just leave them to get on with it? When faced with the choice of "say nothing" or "indulge in a bit of petty, pointless spitefulness" why would anyone decent pick the latter?

I can understand if it happens in the middle of a conversation, where it has become apparent that the person you are actively trying to help has simply opted to get you to "do their homework for them", but to just commit a drive-by passive-aggressive LMGTFY potshot is a sign of someone with some worrisome antisocial tendencies, or, as our German cousins say, eine Backpfeifengesicht.

[Cerebus]

and admonishes more advanced responders to be polite

Small pedantic correction - it asks 'regulars' to be polite. 'Admonish' is telling off after the fact (which, admittedly, could be appropriate in some cases).

The dictionary says "warn or reprimand someone firmly" (Emph. mine), so I reckon the original usage is OK.

[rstofer]

Where would you expect to get a better introduction to Ohm's Law?

As a beginner I might not know I need to learn about Ohm's Law. But maybe someone will tell me "Hey, you really need to know Ohm's Law and a good video introduction is xxx". Maybe that would give me a clue on what to google, too.

That is exactly what is likely to happen here.  I've seen it and I've done it.  There are some wonderful resources on the Internet.  Many times folks have lamented their lack of math skills and I have pointed out some excellent resources.  But the reply assumes that the reader actually wants to improve their skills.

A 10 minute video trumps a 2 paragraph explanation (almost) every time.  For electronics, I like Dave's "Fundamentals Friday" series and w2aew has some great videos as well.  I think Dave's explanation of op amp operation is about as good as it gets.

[Trader]

Everyone has some level of "expertise" in several topics, some issues are so simple that even another newbie can help before look for an expert.

The main problem here on eevblog forum is that very few people are experts in being Polite and prone to help others.

[PlainName]

and admonishes more advanced responders to be polite

Small pedantic correction - it asks 'regulars' to be polite. 'Admonish' is telling off after the fact (which, admittedly, could be appropriate in some cases).

The dictionary says "warn or reprimand someone firmly" (Emph. mine), so I reckon the original usage is OK.

Fair cop. Mine does too 

[nctnico]

One of my pet hates is when someone asks something and someone else responds with a sarcastic answer along the lines of “a 5 second google ………”

First it’s rude,

It is not. It is a hint towards asking a better question. IOW: show that a bit of work was done before asking for help.

Tie a man's shoes and he can walk for a day. Learn a man to tie his own shoes and he can walk for the rest of his life.

[fourfathom]

Tie a man's shoes and he can walk for a day. Learn a man to tie his own shoes and he can walk for the rest of his life.

Yes, but tie a man's shoelaces together and he will fall on his face.  That is what could happen if we allow just any random non-expert to answer a beginner-type question.

[just kidding, I still don't like the "Expert" meter]

[rstofer]

Everyone has some level of "expertise" in several topics, some issues are so simple that even another newbie can help before look for an expert.

The main problem here on eevblog forum is that very few people are experts in being Polite and prone to help others.

Where does that come from?  I've only been here for about 6 years (new guy) but I just haven't seen anything resembling impolite or unhelpful.  If this board were impolite, I would have been gone a long time ago.  This stuff is for fun and if it isn't fun there's no point in doing it.

Now, every once in a long while somebody has a bad day but it certainly doesn't seem endemic to me.  If I want to see rude or impolite, I can just go to Stack (Overflow or Exchange).  Besides, the moderators can be ruthless when people go too far around the bend - or so I have read.

This is a family oriented site and everybody is welcome.  Mostly it's just for fun with a little serious thrown in just to add flavor.