Author Topic: Desoldering Gun Advice  (Read 23730 times)

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Offline abbtech

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Desoldering Gun Advice
« on: February 09, 2012, 12:12:41 pm »
Hey guys,

I need some advice. I am finally moving up from the good old solder sucker and solder wick.

I have heard lots of good reviews on the Hakko 808 ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/808-5-808-KIT-P-P-808-KIT-Hakko-Desoldering-Gun-w-Pump-/380086641353?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item587eede2c9 ) but I didn't really want to spend that much. I don't think I will need to do more than an hour of desoldering in an entire month. But for the occasional marathon session I want a desoldering gun on hand.

Has anyone tried the Hakko and one of the cheap Chinese models to compare them?
I was looking at this one which looks not  bad but I have no idea if it is a pile of junk... I would need to find a 110VAC model but I don't think that should be very hard.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MT-995-Electric-Vacuum-Desoldering-Pump-Solder-Sucker-Gun-220V-100W-/310377438441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4843efdce9

Thanks,

Alan

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Offline Kilroy

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 03:27:00 pm »
I would strongly recommend the Hakko 808. It is light, portable, low complexity, easy to maintain and works brilliantly. I personally do not like those de-soldering tools that have long hoses to the hand piece. They take up room on your bench and the hose dragging about is just one more aggravation you don't need. Usually, the pumps on those rigs are running all the time...annoying.

A principal advantage of this tool is that the pump is very close to the suction tip, so the molten solder has a straight, extremely short travel to the capture chamber, hence the solder has less time to cool and foul the suction path. Full vacuum is available the instant you squeeze the trigger, and drops to zero the instant it is released...the pump only runs when it is needed, which is as it should be.

The only disadvantage is the glaring omission of a proper on/off power switch...you have to pull the plug, or do what I do...plug the thing into a switched power bar. All in all, though, a really great tool that just does what it does with the minimum amount of fuss and bother.
The fool generalizes the particular; the nerd particularizes the general; some do both; and the wise does neither.
 

Offline KD0CAC John

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 04:11:58 pm »
Good shopping can get you quality at a good price .
That being said , avoid buying junk for many reasons , besides doing quality work without frustration .
For the money [ $150 -$200 ] used an Metcal MX-DS1 gun with power supply , uses shop air - one of the biggest issues with the vacuum pump desoldering gear is the cost , maintenance of the vacuum pump .
I think a complete repair bench should have compressor , with compressed air , use a simple venturi to create vacuum .
Any of the equipment we are talking about already has cords , so adding a hose means nothing .
I bought a Metcal power supply , soldering pencil , desoldering gun , holder for each and the rack for both holders for $200 .
I would have posted the ebay link to my purchase , but would need to take out my info ?     
 

Online IanB

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 06:12:36 pm »
Before you spend lots of money, I recommend you try out the Radio Shack tool:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/radioshack-desoldering-iron-%27it-does-what-it-says-on-the-tin%27/

Especially if you only have an occasional need.

If you don't find it satisfactory after trying it, you can of course go ahead and buy a more expensive tool like the Hakko. Given the price of the RS tool there is nothing to lose by trying it first.
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Offline SgtRock

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 09:26:23 pm »
Greetings EEVBees:

--The "MT-995 Electric Vacuum Desoldering Pump Solder Sucker Gun" has a lot going for it. It really should have been named the "MT-995 Electric Vacuum Desoldering Pump Solder Sucker Gun And Soldering Iron":

"This gun is very easy for you to desoldering and remove the solder. This device is 2 in 1 unit, including soldering iron and desoldering vacuum pump." and * Rapid heating function, heating for one minute up to 350°c
    "* Stable working temperature and the instantaneous temperature function, suitable for continuous use
     * Enhanced vacuum pumps, suction greater, in addition to tin easier"

--Now I do not know if the Hakko is as handy for you to soldering  as the "MT-995 Electric Vacuum Desoldering Pump Solder Sucker Gun And Soldering Iron", nor do I know if it "to tin easier", but I am pretty sure it does at least as good a job for you to desoldering. I confess I could not tell if it could match the "heating for one minute up to 350°c" specification, or if it has an "instantaneous temperature function", but I suspect that if longevity and availability of spare parts, play a part in your decision, the the Hakko may indeed win-out.

--Tough call though. If you want to recap that MoBo as you go along decaping it (so as to avoid confusing which cap goes in what hole), the "MT-995 Electric Vacuum Desoldering Pump Solder Sucker Gun And Soldering Iron" may be the for you, since not only will you not have to plug in a flimsy old ordinary iron, you will not even have to down tool. Whatever your choice is, happy for you to desoldering please.

--The link below had a the 808 PDF Users Manual labeled "808e200705, which is the second item.

http://www.hakkousa.com/doc_library.asp?DocType=Manual

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Offline abbtech

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 12:57:04 am »
I would strongly recommend the Hakko 808. It is light, portable, low complexity, easy to maintain and works brilliantly. I personally do not like those de-soldering tools that have long hoses to the hand piece. They take up room on your bench and the hose dragging about is just one more aggravation you don't need. Usually, the pumps on those rigs are running all the time...annoying.

Thanks for the info. I would have though there would be an on/off switch. It also looks like there is no stand to place it into when it isn't in use but I guess laying it on its side on the desk must be what everyone does.
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Offline abbtech

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 12:59:58 am »
Before you spend lots of money, I recommend you try out the Radio Shack tool:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/radioshack-desoldering-iron-%27it-does-what-it-says-on-the-tin%27/

Especially if you only have an occasional need.

If you don't find it satisfactory after trying it, you can of course go ahead and buy a more expensive tool like the Hakko. Given the price of the RS tool there is nothing to lose by trying it first.

I wish we still had Radio Shack stores here in Canada... All of them changed to The Source and I just checked, they don't have those desoldering irons in store. :( I have never used one of them and always thought it would be similar to a solder sucker but I guess you have the huge benefit of heating while you suck. Next time I am in the states I need to pick one of these up!
Personal projects http://alan-parekh.com
Other cool project ideas http://hackedgadgets.com
 

Offline abbtech

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 01:02:23 am »
Good shopping can get you quality at a good price .
That being said , avoid buying junk for many reasons , besides doing quality work without frustration .
For the money [ $150 -$200 ] used an Metcal MX-DS1 gun with power supply , uses shop air - one of the biggest issues with the vacuum pump desoldering gear is the cost , maintenance of the vacuum pump .
I think a complete repair bench should have compressor , with compressed air , use a simple venturi to create vacuum .
Any of the equipment we are talking about already has cords , so adding a hose means nothing .
I bought a Metcal power supply , soldering pencil , desoldering gun , holder for each and the rack for both holders for $200 .
I would have posted the ebay link to my purchase , but would need to take out my info ?   

I see your point. I guess I could run air into the lab/office. I will have to give that some consideration.

Thanks.
Personal projects http://alan-parekh.com
Other cool project ideas http://hackedgadgets.com
 

Offline Wartex

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 01:24:21 am »
I bought Hakko 808 from niosales and it's worth every penny. There is nothing even close on the market in usability. I can empty large boards in minutes.
 

Offline Salas

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2015, 04:21:16 am »
What about this new $35 sucker on Ebay? Anyone here ever used it?

 

Offline all_repair

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2015, 04:49:29 am »
I bought the 230V version of the MTxxx, the motor just cannot last.  I have bought replacement motor, but it still become too hot to be useful.  Now they are tucked away as a hot-spare.
Suction power is the differentiating factor.  The 808 is not bad, if I were you I would jump to a Hakko with seperate suction pump.  The suction is more powerful than 808.  I got clone of Hakko 474 by Aoyue, and real Hakko 474 (with all the 808, MTxxx).  If I can restart, I shall go for the best Hakko I can afford.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 04:51:54 am by all_repair »
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2015, 03:56:44 am »
I have a ZD-985 and I like it.  It does require regular cleaning of the nozzle to keep suction at the max but it works well.
I am of the age that my brain no longer says "maybe I shouldn't say that" but "what the heck, let's see what happens"
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2015, 05:46:08 am »
I've got the Hakko with the remote pump. The pump only runs when the trigger is depressed. It is not loud or obnoxious in any way.   It works very well, but it isn't a universal cure all for your desoldering problems. Don't chuck your desoldering wick just yet. The price for the unit you showed is fair for the quality. It's a several decade investment. 
 

Offline RobertHolcombe

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2015, 11:33:23 am »
snip
Agree with all Kilroy's comments

At work I have one connected to a switched power board, it is quite annoying to have no power switch and no power indicator either, just have to be vigilant about turning it off

I'll post a photo of the ghetto "stand" I made for it too, which actually works great for me
 

Offline Salas

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2015, 12:38:31 am »
What about this new $35 sucker on Ebay? Anyone here ever used it?

No specific comment then. Seems nobody here used it. Just found a video though, here's how it works.



 

Offline Dave Turner

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2015, 05:43:33 pm »
It looks a little unwieldy but I do like the fact that the solder can be ejected, without having to dismantle it to clean springs.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2015, 03:41:02 pm »
A vintage 707 could do the job, but you need to replace the diaphragm in the pump if it hasn't already been replaced. Luckily it's simple. And cheap.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HAKKO-707-DESOLDERING-tool-STAION-w-707-1-/301525978390?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4634594d16

Either way, don't forget to stock up on consumables and different size tips. Consumables = filters.

If shopping for vintage stuff, keep in mind some units need shop air to run, they use a Venturi pump.
 

Offline Salas

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2015, 10:26:04 am »
It looks a little unwieldy but I do like the fact that the solder can be ejected, without having to dismantle it to clean springs.

There is some elusive slimmer black newer version also. I had seen it for very little on Ebay and steadily on Ali. Seems like a helpful cheerful cheapo for the toolbox. For that outta bench occasional limited use, not substituting the results of any proper station or a Hakko wall powered gun, no way. More potent vacuum and rapid rearming than using the traditional hollow iron sucker with the manual actuator. Thermal capacity and nose bit look of the same weak design though.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 10:54:19 am by Salas »
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2015, 11:54:50 am »
My solution:
Hakko 474 handle, homebrew controller +solenoid valve + old fridge compressor pulling vacuum. Works like treat and has strongest suction and lowest delay I have seen in any desoldering tool.  :-+
Nothing pisses me off more than desoldering iron that barely sucks and has a 5 second delay before making any appreciable vacuum after trigger press.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2015, 12:52:33 pm »
My solution:
Hakko 474 handle, homebrew controller +solenoid valve + old fridge compressor pulling vacuum. Works like treat and has strongest suction and lowest delay I have seen in any desoldering tool.  :-+
Nothing pisses me off more than desoldering iron that barely sucks and has a 5 second delay before making any appreciable vacuum after trigger press.

5 seconds, eh? Can you see the vacuum travel along the tubes like water in classic cartoons?

Then it's probably time to replace the two "paper ceramic" (whatever *that* is) filters in the vacuum path. That's the consumables. One near the pump, one inside the gun.

 

Offline PaulAm

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2015, 01:26:21 pm »
+1 on the Metcal DS1.  If you're in the US you can get a cheap compressor from HF for $40 that works fine.  It's also useful to have a source of air at a repair bench.

I had an Ungar station with a built in vac pump.  Parts were getting hard to find for that so I upgraded to a Metcal MX500 station.  Best thing I ever did.  I have never regretted spending money on good tools.,
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2015, 02:12:37 pm »
My solution:
Hakko 474 handle, homebrew controller +solenoid valve + old fridge compressor pulling vacuum. Works like treat and has strongest suction and lowest delay I have seen in any desoldering tool.  :-+
Nothing pisses me off more than desoldering iron that barely sucks and has a 5 second delay before making any appreciable vacuum after trigger press.

5 seconds, eh? Can you see the vacuum travel along the tubes like water in classic cartoons?

Then it's probably time to replace the two "paper ceramic" (whatever *that* is) filters in the vacuum path. That's the consumables. One near the pump, one inside the gun.
well, maybe there was some exaggeration but some of the desoldering stations  with built-in vacuum pump ARE slow as hell. Pump will start as you press the switch and you wont necessarily get proper vacuum in a blink of an eye.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2015, 02:31:07 pm »
My solution:
Hakko 474 handle, homebrew controller +solenoid valve + old fridge compressor pulling vacuum. Works like treat and has strongest suction and lowest delay I have seen in any desoldering tool.  :-+
Nothing pisses me off more than desoldering iron that barely sucks and has a 5 second delay before making any appreciable vacuum after trigger press.

5 seconds, eh? Can you see the vacuum travel along the tubes like water in classic cartoons?

Then it's probably time to replace the two "paper ceramic" (whatever *that* is) filters in the vacuum path. That's the consumables. One near the pump, one inside the gun.
well, maybe there was some exaggeration but some of the desoldering stations  with built-in vacuum pump ARE slow as hell. Pump will start as you press the switch and you wont necessarily get proper vacuum in a blink of an eye.

Are you involved in some sort of speed-desoldering contest?  :) The time it takes to place the iron and heat the joint would be the biggest factor, no?

But I think you're basically right, the pump does need a variable amount of time to get the diaphragm to do a full cycle.

What's even worse is that the pump, at least in my 707, has no position sensor so it basically can end up anywhere when it stops.

Sometimes, I get the feeling a small amount of air is pumped *out* before suction begins. I noticed this by triggering it a few dozen times in the air, and I think I saw a small puff of smoke coming out.

But what else is there but a "built-in" pump? I could only guess that a Venturi valve would be faster since the shop air is always there, and nothing needs to spin up.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2015, 07:03:13 pm »

Are you involved in some sort of speed-desoldering contest?  :) The time it takes to place the iron and heat the joint would be the biggest factor, no?

But I think you're basically right, the pump does need a variable amount of time to get the diaphragm to do a full cycle.

What's even worse is that the pump, at least in my 707, has no position sensor so it basically can end up anywhere when it stops.

Sometimes, I get the feeling a small amount of air is pumped *out* before suction begins. I noticed this by triggering it a few dozen times in the air, and I think I saw a small puff of smoke coming out.

But what else is there but a "built-in" pump? I could only guess that a Venturi valve would be faster since the shop air is always there, and nothing needs to spin up.
Its not like that the tiny diaphgram/piston can pull anywhere "full vacuum" with the first stroke. Venturi version is definitely stronger and separate vacuum pump+ solenoid valve is even better.

Speed contest? not really. But replacing a dozens of logic chips on a tight tolerance plated trough  board makes you appreciate a good desoldering iron. Add a bonus of stinky smelly the most stubborn polyurethane based coating over solder joints that will gum up and block any desoldering iron in a second and you really want your desoldering iron to have enough suction to pull the nails out of the walls  |O
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2015, 08:38:08 pm »
Interesting, thanks. I hadn't thought about sucking up stuff other than solder, and the occasional resistor lead which then instantly turns into tungsten carbide inside the heater core...  |O

What kind of boards are these? And why do dozens of chips fail on the same board?

I did a test with my iron, there isn't a noticeable delay between pulling the trigger and feeling the vacuum where it enters the solder catcher. And it's strong enough to pull at my skin. And that's with my crappy home-made diaphragm to replace the old one which turned into butter.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2015, 07:26:31 am »
Interesting, thanks. I hadn't thought about sucking up stuff other than solder, and the occasional resistor lead which then instantly turns into tungsten carbide inside the heater core...  |O

What kind of boards are these? And why do dozens of chips fail on the same board?

Haha, agree with your comments about resistor leads inside the heater core. But I can do better than that, broken HSS drill bit inside the heater core.  :-//
Had a xxl-long 3mm drill to clear the heater hole until some butthead coworker broke it inside the heater..

Boards were vintage industrial controls. There was not necessarily dozen of failed chips but in many cases it was faster and cheaper to replace them all at once than spend half a day wondering where the fault is. Or if  the fault was internmitted (once per week..) or temperature related.
 

Offline kc9qvl

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Re: Desoldering Gun Advice
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2015, 03:20:58 am »
I use this desolder iron from velleman. Works fine. not as fast as a powered vacuum but get the job done.

http://www.amazon.com/Velleman-VTDESOL3U-Vacuum-Desoldering-Heater/dp/B00B88FRME
 


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