General > General Technical Chat
Goodbye Windows, Hello Linux [advice needed for a Linux workstation at home]
nctnico:
--- Quote from: rstofer on January 19, 2019, 06:13:00 pm ---Nobody wants to pay for Linux or Linux applications. It's "free" software, after all. The flip side is also true: Why would a professional developer want to work for free?
--- End quote ---
Sorry but this is utter nonsense. There is lots of commercial software available which runs on Linux. Think about Cadence Allegro, Xilinx FPGA tools, Altera FPGA tools, Sonnet Professional (EM solver), etc. Each of these cost several $k at least.
rstofer:
--- Quote from: NiHaoMike on January 19, 2019, 07:05:45 pm ---The poor state of Windows nowadays is only going to accelerate the adoption of Linux on the desktop. The main barriers for ordinary users appear to be games, but even that has improved by a lot.
--- End quote ---
I have been running Win 10 since it came out and it is a vast improvement on Win 7 and that was darn near perfect. Among other things, installing printers is vastly simplified: Win 10 scans the network, finds the printers and offers to install them from drivers it already has.
Under one version of Linux, I have to remember a particular port for a browser to connect to localhost and with some amazing amount of effort, I might get a printer to install. If a driver exists...
The big problem with Linux is that it is darn difficult to get it running. Try using minicom as a normal user. Just try to get access to the serial port. How many Google searches before you find out you're not a member of the group allowed to use the serial port. How many more searches until you find out that you need to be a superuser to add yourself to the serial port group? And on it goes. Same with USB ports, and how come I have to write udev rules? How am I supposed to know that the reason my gadget doesn't connect is because there isn't a rule? I don't have to do that with Windows.
--- Quote ---Rule files and semantics. When deciding how to name a device and which additional actions to perform, udev reads a series of rules files. These files are kept in the /etc/udev/rules.d directory, and they all must have the .rules suffix. Default udev rules are stored in /etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules.
--- End quote ---
Truly helpful - not... I haven't done this but I imagine you need to be su to do it.
Remember when we had to deal with printcap? Those were the days!
Nobody wants this crap! That's the big reason that Linux is nowhere in terms of desktop penetration after 27 years. It is terribly difficult for the casual user to set up. And, having set it up, so what? It's just an OS, not an application.
And then you have the Unity desktop for Ubuntu where the arrogant developers moved the system buttons. Originally they allowed the user, with even more Google searches, to move them back where they belong. Now that is impossible! The shear arrogance is astounding!
Mint with the Cinnamon desktop is pretty decent. I have it on a couple of machines and use it from time to time. I use it because it closely approximates what I know - Windows.
Just remember: Linux has less than 2% desktop market penetration after 27 years even when they give it away free! They can't even give it away!
NiHaoMike:
--- Quote from: rstofer on January 19, 2019, 10:42:11 pm ---Same with USB ports, and how come I have to write udev rules? How am I supposed to know that the reason my gadget doesn't connect is because there isn't a rule? I don't have to do that with Windows.
--- End quote ---
Oddly enough, on Windows, you have to use a tool like Zadig to allow libusb to work, so not so straightforward for "unusual" devices like certain test and measurement hardware. On Linux, if you have the permission, it just works...
I also wonder how many remember that it was Linux that made home use Windows as reliable as it has been for nearly 2 decades. That was when Linux was beginning to become ready for desktop use so Microsoft had to neutralize one of its big advantages - namely not crashing very often.
nctnico:
@rstofer: Fortunately my experiences are the complete opposite. Where installing a printer on Windows is a major pain getting it going on Debian Linux takes almost no effort at all. But then again I've been using Linux commercially for almost 25 years already so I know my way around. Back then I recognised Linux is different compared to DOS/Windows so I took a training to learn the basics.
Things have changed a lot since then. Given the enormous amount of engineering software for which a Linux version is available nowadays there must be something wrong with that 2% number. I'm pretty sure nearly 100% of companies which do some form or engineering use Linux. About a year ago I had a demo for some electronics CAD packages. Every company had an answer to whether it could run on Linux: either native or in a VM. None said the package couldn't be used under Linux.
Halcyon:
--- Quote from: soldar on January 19, 2019, 10:34:47 am ---Web clients' OS share:
--- Code: ---Android 41%
Windows 36%
Apple 19%
Linux 0.78%
--- End code ---
Linux might be great for nerds and engineers but the public at large do not show much preference for it and I do not think it will gain significant market share as long as the attitude of the Linux community is one of smug superiority. Maybe trying to make Linux more user-friendly would help Linux become more widespread.
--- End quote ---
Linux market share worldwide is up around the 1.5 to 3.5% mark depending on where you look.
While still small compared to Windows, it still represents a significant number of users with take-up rates steadily climbing. Users who are looking to Linux as an alternative to Windows 10 is becoming fairly common. 5 years ago I wouldn't have ever entertained the idea myself, but now, I only run Linux at home (with Windows 7 in a VM for the few applications that don't run on Linux).
As more users get sick of Windows 10 and all its problems, they will look to alternatives. I know a handful of people who have made the switch and their partners/spouses have picked up Linux quite easily. It's not a difficult operating system to get your head around, it's just different.
As for "smug superiority", I think that's largely made up. I certainly don't see it from where I'm sitting. Most people couldn't give a shit.
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