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Goodbye Windows, Hello Linux [advice needed for a Linux workstation at home]

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nctnico:

--- Quote from: free_electron on January 20, 2019, 10:24:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 19, 2019, 09:13:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: rstofer on January 19, 2019, 06:13:00 pm ---Nobody wants to pay for Linux or Linux applications.  It's "free" software, after all.  The flip side is also true:  Why would a professional developer want to work for free?

--- End quote ---
Sorry but this is utter nonsense. There is lots of commercial software available which runs on Linux. Think about Cadence Allegro, Xilinx FPGA tools, Altera FPGA tools, Sonnet Professional (EM solver), etc. Each of these cost several $k at least.

--- End quote ---

and why ? because solaris and sun workstations disappeared , became underpowered and more expensive than commodity pc hardware.
So those guys wanted a simple port ... unix ( solaris / bsd ) -> linux . done. adapting to windows was too difficult. but now the point is moot as those packages also run on windows.

--- End quote ---
The point isn't moot. You just fail to see that there are a lot of people who prefer to use Linux for engineering tasks. Enough to make it worthwhile from a business perspective to support Linux. Why would these companies bother to support Linux if they have a working Windows port? That is a rethorical question: because they will lose sales (and money) if they don't support Linux. And don't underestimate the effort which goes into supporting a Linux build. It is not a matter of taking some old source code which worked on Solaris from the 90's and compile it. Take Cadence Allegro for example. This is build onto the cross platform Qt framework which is relatively new and didn't exist when the old Unixes ruled the CAD world. Cadence made a clear to choice to support Windows AND Linux for their PCB Layout software product. I'm seeing some changes in Orcad Capture as well which may hint they are porting it to Linux.

Even Altium is feeling the heat:
https://www.altium.com/solution/linux-pcb-design-software
Do you need to design a printed circuit board, but are having difficulty in finding Linux PCB design software? Well, look no further, because Altium has a solution for you.

This page is pushing Altium's browser-based PCB design solution so probably meh but the sign is clearly on the wall.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 20, 2019, 09:38:29 pm ---there's no way to fully appease to the entire Linux crowd.
--- End quote ---
Appease?

Look. The situation is simple. You have a product. Either the users want that product, or they don't.  It is not a matter of appeasing to the crowd, unless your product is so shit its sales depends exclusively on marketing.


--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 20, 2019, 09:38:29 pm ---IME the biggest issue going agains MS and Linux is to properly support the widest range of custom HW arrangements in the marketplace.
--- End quote ---
No, that's crazy talk.  I mean, the idea that you tune your software to a specific graphics hardware.  On Linux, you use one of the GUI toolkits (the two most common being Qt and GTK+; if you use either one, your application can run in any desktop environment), and OpenGL for acceleration.  You do need to compile the binaries for x86-64 and at least one or two ARM variants, but if your codebase is sensible, it would not require any code changes.  If you target specific hardware, you're doing it wrong.  If your programmers are those who assume int and pointers are the same size, you fire them and hire better ones.

If your team is one of those who create a really nice-looking thing, that when run on different graphics hardware crashes instantly, it is your task to fire them, and get a team that can do it right.  If not, you're just complaining that this business is too hard for stupid people to run, and that Linux devs are nasty if they don't make it easier so we can make a better profit easier.

I am perfectly aware that that approach means it is hard to implement high-budget games on Linux, because their main attraction is visuals, and optimizing for main graphics hardware types.  For Windows games, the game engine developers all co-operate with the driver implementers.  For Linux, the proprietary game engine developers are not allowed to, not on the up-and-up, with Linux graphics drivers devs, for company-internal reasons.  (Steam folks were the first ones I am aware of, and they don't seem to have any major issues now.)  There are quite a few Linux games, so the technology itself cannot be a problem; it can only be a problem with how one operates their business.

If I were harsh, I'd say your complaint boils down to "butbut Linux is not Windows".  We all know that.  Demanding that Linux becomes more like Windows is not a sane one. Trying to base it on "then you'd get much more desktop users" or "then it would be easier for existing businesses to make money on Linux software" does not make sense either. Neither is a positive for Linux users and developers.  The users prefer it to be non-Windows-like.  If they didn't, they'd use Windows instead.

The same applies to Mac. (Or rather, Apple is even more insular than Microsoft is, even if their operating system otherwise looks like an Unix machine.  They have their own graphics stack, Metal, and are stopping OpenGL support altogether.)

Look.  It is perfectly possible to make lots of money selling Linux software.  You claim you cannot.  I am saying that that can only be because you do not know how to do profitable business on Linux.  You claim there are technical obstacles.  I say those technical obstacles are of your own making, and not inherent in Linux at all.

Claiming that you cannot do business in Linux is just like claiming you cannot do business in Japan or Korea or Germany, because their business rules are completely wrong; my United States business just cannot work there.  So they must change, because that way I could do business there too.  But, they refuse to, so they are stupid and anti-business long-haired smellies who hate money and love Stalin, bloody commies.  Right?

Monkeh:

--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 20, 2019, 10:39:44 pm ---Another issue is download size: I wonder how much adding absolutely everything would add to an already hefty 1GB package.

--- End quote ---

Easily offset by things like printer, graphics, and sound drivers not being the size of an entire OS unto themselves on Linux..

rsjsouza:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on January 21, 2019, 01:13:33 am ---
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 20, 2019, 09:38:29 pm ---there's no way to fully appease to the entire Linux crowd.
--- End quote ---
Appease?

Look. The situation is simple. You have a product. Either the users want that product, or they don't.  It is not a matter of appeasing to the crowd, unless your product is so shit its sales depends exclusively on marketing.

--- End quote ---
Yes, appease. Whenever a version is released, several questions still pop up as to why distro "X" is not supported, with the occasional complaints. It used to happen a lot more in the past, but nowadays some more Linux savvy developers adapt it to their distro, which is not very difficult but we don't officially test it and therefore do not promise support. It is what makes financial sense to address a minority of our customer base.


--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on January 21, 2019, 01:13:33 am ---
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 20, 2019, 09:38:29 pm ---IME the biggest issue going agains MS and Linux is to properly support the widest range of custom HW arrangements in the marketplace.
--- End quote ---
No, that's crazy talk.

--- End quote ---
No, it is not. The context is when comparing to the HW available to Chrome OS and macOS, which is locked. Don't cut quotations to cater to your narrative.


--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on January 21, 2019, 01:13:33 am ---I mean, the idea that you (ZZZZZ....zzzzzz....zzzz...zzzz....) business.

If I were harsh, I'd say your complaint boils down to(ZZZZZ....zzzzzz....zzzz...zzzz....) use Windows instead.
--- End quote ---
I am impressed - you could extract so many vitriolic reactions and wrong assumptions from my small post? Don't worry in your guessing; you are being harsh all around - fortunately for me this is entirely irrelevant as not everyone is making games or creating beautified GUIs locked to feature "Z" of adapter "X".


--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on January 21, 2019, 01:13:33 am ---Look.  It is perfectly possible to make lots of money selling Linux software.  You claim you cannot.  I am saying that that can only be because you do not know how to do profitable business on Linux.  You claim there are technical obstacles.  I say those technical obstacles are of your own making, and not inherent in Linux at all.

Claiming that you cannot do business in Linux is just like claiming you cannot do business in Japan or Korea or Germany, because their business rules are completely wrong; my United States business just cannot work there.  So they must change, because that way I could do business there too.  But, they refuse to, so they are stupid and anti-business long-haired smellies who hate money and love Stalin, bloody commies.  Right?

--- End quote ---
Stop putting words in my mouth and get rid of your frivolous assumptions to try and prove your narrative. Repeating what I wrote above and before: financially for us it makes zero sense to "spend a few hours" with each distro, validate and properly document and provide continuous support for absolutely everything on the marketplace.

Your post can be barely taken seriously when compared to what I posted - it only showcases a typical Linux fan that cannot take criticism for someone that lives a different reality than yours. Anyways, all this is going off topic.


--- Quote from: Monkeh on January 21, 2019, 01:27:39 am ---
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on January 20, 2019, 10:39:44 pm ---Another issue is download size: I wonder how much adding absolutely everything would add to an already hefty 1GB package.

--- End quote ---

Easily offset by things like printer, graphics, and sound drivers not being the size of an entire OS unto themselves on Linux..

--- End quote ---
I agree with the ridiculous sizes of certain support packages for peripherals, but that really does not help in my case as I don't provide them. I don't work for any of the HPs, Epsons, Nvidias, etc.

Halcyon:

--- Quote from: RoGeorge on January 17, 2019, 03:24:47 pm ---1.  Which one would you choose as a home desktop?
2.  Is there a big difference in the software availability between the two?
3.  I don't like to reinstall too often, yet I want the latest gimmicks, too.  Which one to pick for the long run, Fedora 29 or Ubuntu 18.10?

--- End quote ---

RoGeorge: Aren't you glad you asked. ;-)

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