Author Topic: Goodbye Windows, Hello Linux [advice needed for a Linux workstation at home]  (Read 10483 times)

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Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2019, 07:33:08 pm »
- Ubuntu 18.10 Desktop (don't want 18.04 LTS):  deb packages, based on Debian repositories

Why not LTS? Out of curiosity.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2019, 07:35:15 pm »
It's a contraption of half finished stuff stuck together with duct tape.

Have you used Windows in the era post-XP? You just described every single change they've made in the last decade.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2019, 07:42:19 pm »
Install Virtualbox or any other virtualising and you can run any other OS inside a window. For older stuff Dosbox works well, and funny enough old DOS games work well enough there, while the machine outside is still barely noticing it. nice thing about Virtualbox is that making a backup of a VM is easy, and you just keep a golden copy and clone it as needed. Yes there is a copy of XP on there, but you can simply disable networking, or use a much better firewall with it, plus the whole thing can be wiped with a single click and start again from the original master.

LTS even though you only get stable updates, and update to the latest kernel when installed, as by default kernel updates are pretty much hidden from immediate view, as that is about the only thing that will need a reboot. Yes you don't get the bleeding edge of mostly stable, but it does work. If you are needing the newest version it is easy enough to install anyway. Snap is now working, so makes it much easier to update things you want anyway. Got the latest version of VLC that way, so now just have to remember which icon to click, as it is not the default player Totem.
 

Offline apis

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2019, 07:45:43 pm »
Windows is definitely easier to use and has much more software. I am still using XP though because I refuse to go to the new model where they let you use their software in exchange to knowing everything about you.
Yeah, windows XP was the last windows version I used regularly. Windows XP is two decades old. :-DD

If I boot into windows 10 that this laptop was shipped with I won't be able to reboot it back into linux until earliest sometime tomorrow because it's going to insist I install a bunch of updates which will literally take a day during which I can not use my machine. Windows is a bloody joke. (no, there is no way to postpone it.) I can't believe people put up with that crap.

Most things in Windows can be done with a GUI but in Linux you better get used to arcane, obscure command line commands. It can be frustrating and time consuming.
You need to get used to the command line interface (CLI) if you want to administer a Linux machine. That is an advantage, it's because the machine can run without a GUI and you need to be able to do everything important from the CLI. it's just one of those things you have to learn that is different. Like all things that are worth doing it takes a bit of effort. It is like learning to speak a new language, it's frustrating at first.

Configuration is either done with GUI if it's GUI related or it is done by editing a text file (text files for non GUI programs, which is also easier and more flexible once you get used to it).
 

Offline apis

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2019, 07:50:25 pm »
I'll stick to one vendor...
Then go with Apple for everything. At least Mac OS is a proper UNIX operating system.
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2019, 08:22:32 pm »
You need to get used to the command line interface (CLI) if you want to administer a Linux machine. That is an advantage, it's because the machine can run without a GUI and you need to be able to do everything important from the CLI. it's just one of those things you have to learn that is different. Like all things that are worth doing it takes a bit of effort. It is like learning to speak a new language, it's frustrating at first. 
This attitude, this mentality, is the main reason Linux is a minority OS and will remain so. And, frankly, I do not understand it. It baffles me.

If you have a bunch of files in a folder, do you find anything wrong with the OS listing them for you so you can choose? Or should the user remember all the files names and type them in?

So if I am giving a command why should I remember all the switches and variables when the OS can present all the choices to me in a GUI and let me choose? The result is exactly the same. Each time I use a command I do not like to have to study the manual and all the possible switches and choices; I would rather the OS do that for me. After all, computers are supposed to relieve me of work, not to make me work.

Is it better to have to remember that switch -x admits the values 1, 3, 5, 9, 27, 53 and 73? Or is it better to be presented with a list from which to choose?
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Offline apis

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2019, 08:44:20 pm »
So if I am giving a command why should I remember all the switches and variables when the OS can present all the choices to me in a GUI and let me choose?
On Linux the GUI is optional. All the tools and programs that doesn't require the GUI can't use a GUI for settings.
Apache web server or MySQL for example. Those are usually run on servers without GUI so you have to be able to configure them without a GUI. You just edit a file which is usually not harder than a few lines of "property=value" and store it in a default location. It's crude but effective.

For programs that are GUI only you use a GUI window for configuration just like people are used to from windows. But for administration, to set up a web server for example, you have to learn to use the CLI.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2019, 08:47:19 pm »
Most things in Windows can be done with a GUI but in Linux you better get used to arcane, obscure command line commands. It can be frustrating and time consuming.
You need to get used to the command line interface (CLI) if you want to administer a Linux machine.
Not true. In a modern Linux distribution you can control as much with the GUI as with Windows. You just need to look up how. And yes, many forums will show a command line option for a quick fix but there usually is a better way through the GUI.
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Offline Circlotron

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2019, 09:08:35 pm »
East fix for screen tearing with nVidia. I’ll post it later when I have time.
 

Online Halcyon

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2019, 09:12:46 pm »
I went through exactly this changeover from Windows to Linux almost a year ago in this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/migrating-from-windows-to-linux/
Windows 10 is just awful. I'm forced to use it at work.

I've settled for a combination of CentOS and Fedora Workstation on my desktop machines and Fedora Server for servers. I absolutely love them both. I personally use the MATE desktop environment.

I'll stick to one vendor...
Then go with Apple for everything. At least Mac OS is a proper UNIX operating system.

Which they've completely buggered up and forced onto sub-standard, overpriced hardware. No thanks.
Comparing MacOS to UNIX is like comparing a shit heap Subaru to a MacLaren... yes they are both cars.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 09:20:45 pm by Halcyon »
 
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Offline bingo600

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2019, 09:13:11 pm »
I'll put in another vote for linux mint , but i prefer the Mate edition.

Just installed Mint 19 - Mate on 2 laptops yesterday.

For servers i prefer "Pure Debian".

/Bingo
 

Offline apis

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2019, 09:20:53 pm »
Most things in Windows can be done with a GUI but in Linux you better get used to arcane, obscure command line commands. It can be frustrating and time consuming.
You need to get used to the command line interface (CLI) if you want to administer a Linux machine.
Not true. In a modern Linux distribution you can control as much with the GUI as with Windows. You just need to look up how. And yes, many forums will show a command line option for a quick fix but there usually is a better way through the GUI.
You are right, these days I believe you can configure about as much from a Linux GUI as you can do in Windows.

But there are more advanced things you can do on Linux, but for that you often need to use the command line, so if you don't learn how to use it you are missing out. And some programs are CLI only, like gcc, although I suppose there might be IDEs that hide that for you.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2019, 09:25:36 pm »
if (it_runs("Altium Designer 19"))
    {nuke_windows();}
else {;}
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2019, 09:53:02 pm »
Most things in Windows can be done with a GUI but in Linux you better get used to arcane, obscure command line commands. It can be frustrating and time consuming.
You need to get used to the command line interface (CLI) if you want to administer a Linux machine.
Not true. In a modern Linux distribution you can control as much with the GUI as with Windows. You just need to look up how. And yes, many forums will show a command line option for a quick fix but there usually is a better way through the GUI.
You are right, these days I believe you can configure about as much from a Linux GUI as you can do in Windows.
Depends on the distro. Ubuntu's GUI configuration is pretty scant.

if (it_runs("Altium Designer 19"))
    {nuke_windows();}
else {;}
Does Altium 19 work well on a VM under Linux?
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Online blueskull

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2019, 10:00:11 pm »
Does Altium 19 work well on a VM under Linux?

I don't like VMs. Windows 10 requires constant update. If I power it up only once a month, it will hog the CPU all the time installing updates.
I don't design boards everyday. More likely, I turn out two or three designs at a time, once a month.

Either no Windows, or Windows as main OS.
 
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Offline jpb

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2019, 10:14:53 pm »
My daughter has just switched to Linux Mint from Windows 10.
What made her switch (having not liked Windows 10 from the beginning but using it for games etc) was the last Windows 10 "update" not only wiped her hard drive with Windows on it, but also completely wiped an entirely separate 2TB hard drive! (This was the Pro version of Windows 10 on a Dell Workstation - supposedly professional software.)
She has managed to get most her games working which quite surprised me.

I use both Windows and Linux, mainly Centos at work and Windows 7 at home but I'll probably go all Linux when the support for Windows 7 ends next year, I'm not going anywhere near Windows 10 if I can help it!
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2019, 10:20:26 pm »
Either no Windows, or Windows as main OS.
Ok, I think I now understand your snippet of code: don't get Altium 19 as it only works on Windows 10.
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Online blueskull

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2019, 10:32:19 pm »
Either no Windows, or Windows as main OS.
Ok, I think I now understand your snippet of code: don't get Altium 19 as it only works on Windows 10.

I'm still okay with Windows 10, but I have no idea when I will just vent.
Another reason I still use Windows is b/c I use OneDrive. GDrive doesn't cope well with AD.
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2019, 10:39:13 pm »
The Questions
There are two main candidates:
- Fedora 29 Workstation:  rpm packages, based on Red Hat repositories
- Ubuntu 18.10 Desktop (don't want 18.04 LTS):  deb packages, based on Debian repositories

1.  Which one would you choose as a home desktop?
2.  Is there a big difference in the software availability between the two?
3.  I don't like to reinstall too often, yet I want the latest gimmicks, too.  Which one to pick for the long run, Fedora 29 or Ubuntu 18.10?
1. I chose Lubuntu (LXDE) because it is lightweight and I love the text fonts for reading.  Unlike you, I have free or $10 PCs, hand me down, dual core systems and Lubuntu runs really well on them.

2. Not really.  All the major apps are available in each ecosystem.

3. Neither Fedora or non LTS Ubuntu will be suitable if you don't like to "reinstall too often".  Both are meant for leading edge people and usually only supported for 9 to 13 months depending which you choose.  If reinstallling annually to the next version is acceptable,  then either will do fine.

For me, Lubuntu LTS is reinstalled every 2 years on my main desktop.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 01:56:59 am by retiredcaps »
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2019, 11:04:37 pm »
You don't *have* to use the command line in Linux, although some things are certainly done more easily from there. A year or so ago I switched my computer illiterate mother to Linux as her ancient laptop was getting flaky. So far it has been almost entirely a success, once she got through the teething pains of learning a new interface (which she'd have had to do going to Win10 anyway) it has just worked with no problems at all. I don't have to worry about antivirus, I don't have to worry about malware, I don't have to worry about Windows Update screwing things up or adding/removing/changing features so she calls me in a panic the night before she needs to send out her newsletter after trying all afternoon to figure out the problem herself.

Where Windows went seriously wrong is lumping security updates in with feature/cosmetic updates and making it all mandatory then making the system restart itself. It is just completely ridiculous, very rarely does a presentation at work go by without some kind of update notification popping up over the presentation slides while the whole room collectively groans and giggles rolling their eyes. Security updates are a good thing, but they should install painlessly and provide ample scheduling abilities so that the computer is *never* rebooted without the user's express permission. Feature updates annoy the hell out of me, I hate it when something changes on my PC that I didn't explicitly change.
 
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Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2019, 12:34:33 am »
I don't like VMs. Windows 10 requires constant update. If I power it up only once a month, it will hog the CPU all the time installing updates.
I don't design boards everyday. More likely, I turn out two or three designs at a time, once a month.

Either no Windows, or Windows as main OS.
What about a Windows VM with either no networking or a very restricted network connection?
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Offline langwadt

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2019, 01:40:29 am »
I don't like VMs. Windows 10 requires constant update. If I power it up only once a month, it will hog the CPU all the time installing updates.
I don't design boards everyday. More likely, I turn out two or three designs at a time, once a month.

Either no Windows, or Windows as main OS.
What about a Windows VM with either no networking or a very restricted network connection?

I'd think you can just tell it you are on a metered connection
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2019, 01:44:43 am »
Ubuntu or other debian derivation for me, perhaps historical but rpm systems never seemed very good to me, "rpm hell" was certainly a saying in common with "dll hell" from windows in my younger years, very seldom in the last... hmm... 20 years of deb based system usage have I had any dependency issues that apt-get could not sort out.

I think Ubuntu probably still has the better "it just works" experience in terms of hardware than Debian, certainly that is why I switched to Ubuntu back in the day.

Actually, I use Kubuntu, because I prefer KDE over Gnome (actually, I prefer the current KDE over the current Gnome, but it wasn't always this way... that is a different debate though), but whatever, either way, it's the same under the hood.
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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2019, 01:50:14 am »
Video tearing is mainly the fault of the video player. I've found mpv to be the best performing video player on linux. Also I would steer clear of nvidia at all costs. If you have intel graphics then all you need to do is remove the graphics card.
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Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Ditching Windows at home [Linux advice needed]
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2019, 02:22:17 am »
Video tearing is mainly the fault of the video player. I've found mpv to be the best performing video player on linux. Also I would steer clear of nvidia at all costs. If you have intel graphics then all you need to do is remove the graphics card.
Nvidia works very well with the binary blob, but if you're looking to avoid that, AMD is a fine choice that's not underpowered. That said, I have no experience with high quality upscaling on anything other than a Nvidia GPU.

Here's my mpv config:
Code: [Select]
# This is a config file for mpv, an open source media player.
 # Optimized for high video quality on a 4K display with a GTX 970 GPU.
 # Version: 20181225
 # Content used for subjective testing/tuning provided by CaitlinV3, Joanne Chiang, Naomi Wu, Nerdphilia, and TastyPC.
audio-device=alsa/iec958:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
audio-stream-silence=yes
audio-wait-open=1
hwdec=nvdec
hwdec-codecs=h264,vc1,wmv3,hevc,vp9
force-seekable
framedrop=decoder+vo
vd-lavc-dr=yes
vd-lavc-threads=6
vo=gpu
scale=ewa_lanczossharp
cscale=ewa_lanczossharp
dscale=mitchell
tscale=oversample
correct-downscaling
deband
sigmoid-upscaling
opengl-pbo
scaler-resizes-only
interpolation
interpolation-threshold=0.01
swapchain-depth=8
video-sync=display-resample
video-sync-max-video-change=3
dither-depth=auto
gamma-factor=1.1
cache=500000
audio-channels=stereo
force-window=yes
ontop
autofit=1920x1400
geometry=1920:200
video-align-y=-1
It defaults to opening a video in a window, but I press 'f' if I want it fullscreen. It uses high quality scaling when applicable, with the common case of upscaling 1080p to 4K using about 30% of the GPU. That's roughly 1 TFLOPS so an Intel GPU (other than the oddball that's actually AMD graphics) will not work, a Ryzen 5 APU might but I have not tested it.
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