General > General Technical Chat
Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
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John B:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 18, 2022, 09:59:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 18, 2022, 09:28:43 pm ---AI only relies on the data presented to it. It's possible to build an algorithm which performs well at predicting something, yet also yields politically incorrect results. For example, you could interrogate a database of postal addresses to find out who's most likely to default on a lone, or make an insurance claim and you'll find they're most likely to be the more deprived areas, with more of a certain ethnic minority group. The algorithm will be branded as racist, but it's working properly and generating good results. The problem is with society not the algorithm and the same applies to AI. Unfortunately it's not possible to fix society so everyone is equal, without resorting to unfair or even authoritarian social engineering, so we're stuck to some extent.
--- End quote ---

I'm reminded of car insurance companies who used to be able to charge women less - the idea was that women, in general, have fewer accidents and the accidents they do have tend to be less serious.  Men, in contrast, are more likely to be aggressive when driving, more likely to drink-drive, and more likely to drive when tired.  And, they're quite likely to do any one of those when they have others in the car with them.  So the average payout is higher.

But, it's not legal any more to charge less to women (or more to men) on the basis on gender alone.  They can charge more or less based on insurance history, so an average female driver will pay less than an average male driver.  But for new drivers, or those with limited history, the price has to be the same.

It's completely bonkers - why shouldn't you be able to charge on actual risk?  Why do we pretend these things are equal when they quite clearly are not?

--- End quote ---

That actually sounds fair. Judge people neutrally until their personal actions and choices dictate one way or another.
EEVblog:

--- Quote from: james_s on August 18, 2022, 07:50:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: emece67 on August 18, 2022, 07:36:56 pm ---I realize now that my opinion about some other people on this thread has changed. In some cases dramatically and to worst.
There is the obvious possibility that the opinion that some other members of the forum have about me to also have changed in the same sense.
This is why I think that it is a big error to allow this kind of threads.
For me it is over.
Enjoy.

--- End quote ---

And that illustrates precisely what people are complaining about. You have come right out and said that you have drastically changed your opinion of some people after finding out that they have a different perspective than you on some topics and because you are offended by somebody saying something you disagree with you are advocating that they be silenced.
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It seems that I have video for everything:
EEVblog:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 18, 2022, 05:11:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: emece67 on August 18, 2022, 03:48:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on August 18, 2022, 03:45:13 pm ---As long as things stay civil and somewhat relevant to the field of engineering they will generally let things slide.

--- End quote ---

I mostly see people attacking lefties. Not very civil, I think, and definitely not relevant (see my post above: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/diversity-equity-and-inclusion/msg4365721/#msg4365721).

--- End quote ---
That's because so many people here have been cancelled by those on the left.
If you have left wing views, that's fine, but why not air them here, rather than moaning about this thread not being locked? If you don't like this thread, then don't read and post in it.
--- End quote ---

Here's the thing.
The only people who seem to want this thread shut down are those that basically support DEI, because they are being challenged here. So they compare it to talking about wars, covid, religion, etc as an excuse to have it shut down.
And this is exactly the problem with cancel culture, they want all discussion shut down. No.

This impacts this industry directly with employment, promotion, forced DEI courses, our EE universities, engineering terminology we supposedly are and aren't allowed to use, and the list goes on and on. It has infiltrated everything. And we have a history of discussing this kind of stuff on this forum. This is why I let it remain.
If you don't like it, or get offended by stuff beign said, or think less of your fellow forum users because of something they said, then simply put the thread in your ignore list and you won't see it again.
sokoloff:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 18, 2022, 11:32:08 pm ---engineering terminology we supposedly are and aren't allowed to use
--- End quote ---
For me, retiring the usage of “master and slave” falls into the category of “yeah, that’s probably a good thing to do [to avoid dredging up discomforts from over 150 years ago].”

For the same reason, I wouldn’t let a conference room be named after Auschwitz, Hiroshima, or World Trade Center. These seem like common courtesies, even to my engineer brain. I realize that some see this as the start of a slippery slope (and I can’t explain exactly why that isn’t a concern for me.)
KaneTW:

--- Quote from: sokoloff on August 18, 2022, 11:58:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 18, 2022, 11:32:08 pm ---engineering terminology we supposedly are and aren't allowed to use
--- End quote ---
For me, retiring the usage of “master and slave” falls into the category of “yeah, that’s probably a good thing to do [to avoid dredging up discomforts from over 150 years ago].”

--- End quote ---

Wasn't there a book about this?

I fundamentally disagree with the retirement of master/slave, and continue to use it in my projects where appropriate. Change for changes' sake is just wasted resources. Same as here in Germany with "Studenten" (plural of students) => "Studierende" ("those who study") because "Studenten" is supposedly too gendered. Millions spent on renaming everything in universities for a word that sounds worse and has no benefit.
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