| General > General Technical Chat |
| Diversity, Equity and Inclusion |
| << < (25/76) > >> |
| paulca:
On a more personal note. Related mind, I think. I suffer, like a lot of us, from depression. I was watching one of JPs pre-fame lectures on depression. Something rung out. He said, when a negative thing happens to you, something upsets you, something doesn't go to plan, someone is rude to you, something makes you feel "pain", you have to ACTIVELY limit it's scope. A depressed mind will allow that hole of discontent to expand, cracks and fishers will shoot off it, it will pick at the hole, make it worse. Suddenly an isolated event in your life expands from "I did a bad interview" or "I accidentally deployed a dev config to prod" jumps to, "I'm a fraud", "I shouldn't be here.", "Who am I kidding?", "They'll be on to me. I'm useless.", "I should leave my job, but then what do I do? Jump off a bridge?". Instead a healthy mind will surround the hole and try and limit it's scope, try and force it closed, not deny it, but stop it growing out of proportion. Damn. That is far, far too close to home for me. Before I even went to seek help for it, I got warnings in work for exactly that. For picking up a problem with a solution and going at it like it was the end of the world. Partly I found this created a feedback loop, along the lines of "cry wolf", so my negative warnings began to be unheard. I esculated by using more extreme examples of how this issue or problem could explode and cause the whole project to fail. It spiralled and spiralled with me feeling like I was being ignored (I was) and repeatedly seeing things that I had warned about manifest and then having to fix them after the fact when it was much harder. I ended up completely disillusioned, disconnected and demoralised. It only took a couple of actual bad things to happen in my life, a death, a potential issue with my child and the start of the-virus to nearly send me over the edge. I remember a feeling I've had in my life before, a feeling of another part of me deep within reaching out and holding me, like when I get so, so low there is a part deep within me, normally silent, which stands up and takes me by the shoulders and escorts me off to deal with myself calmly. I got anti-depressants. They work. Most of the social anxiety I didn't even realise I had went away. Most of the "spiralling" out do control to the negative stopped. The only downside is the side effects on higher doses are just too much for me, so I'm on about half of what I should be and find I'm having good days and bad days. Back to how this relates to the point here. For me the Equity and force hiring is coming at me from the USA customer side. They are not really allowed to override my UK employment legal framework. So the worst of this stuff does NOT actually apply to me, yet. It may never get that bad here (RAF's pause of male/white recruiting asides). My own employer still talk of Equality and while they do go on and on and on about Women in Tech, the awards where all female, I have not attended one of their meetings to see how bad their rhetoric is, or isn't. I'll limiting scope. It's not a big deal yet for me. It may never be. It might never get as bad as it could get. I only have 19 years left in me anyway before I retire. The last thing I want to do is start sticking my head above a parapet fighting in a war that isn't mine (yet). Although maybe that's cowardly. |
| Neper:
--- Quote from: emece67 on August 18, 2022, 07:36:56 pm ---I realize now that my opinion about some other people on this thread has changed. In some cases dramatically and to worst. There is the obvious possibility that the opinion that some other members of the forum have about me to also have changed in the same sense. This is why I think that it is a big error to allow this kind of threads. --- End quote --- If anything, they're divisive and they poison the atmosphere. Why can't the people starting those discussions take them to the usual political ratholes instead of spoiling the fun on here? |
| paulca:
--- Quote from: Neper on August 19, 2022, 10:55:31 am ---If anything, they're divisive and they poison the atmosphere. If anything, they are diverse of opinion and reflect the atmosphere in the industry. Why can't the people starting those discussions take them to the usual political ratholes instead of spoiling the fun on here? Why can't these people starting those discussions not feel welcome discussing engineer's and engineering issues on here? --- End quote --- Fix it for you. EDIT: So far, with very few exceptions, the discussion has been civil. It hasn't gone partisan and slagging matches and name calling have not, yet, started. People are expressing opinions, not all of them the same. There is a sort of concesous that the more extreme end of DEI and modern neo-identity-politics is problematic on many fronts. But it's certainly not an echo chamber. I have found a few points on here uncomfortable, but I've listened, considered and they have made me wonder, think and probe vunerabilities in my own values. That is a good thing! If people were at each others throats over this, it would be different, but it seems we have divided into "Want to discuss openly, even opposing views" and "STOP, SHUT UP!" I don't think the later should ever be allowed to win. "I'm not listening", absolutely fine. "I disagree", absolutely fine. "SHUT UP!", not fine. |
| Zero999:
--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on August 19, 2022, 02:18:48 am --- --- Quote from: Zero999 on August 18, 2022, 08:12:51 am ---I haven't watched that video yet. I might not agree with everything he says, but he definitely makes more sense than some of the far-left radicals. Matt Walsh is another person on the right who talks a lot of sense. --- End quote --- Long post. --- End quote --- Wow there's a lot there to go through. Why do you think Matt Walsh is evil because he disagrees with the idea of the hole in the ozone layer being due to human actions? I would say he's misguided and perhaps ignorant on that regard, but wouldn't say he's evil. I don't think climate change is a conspiracy theory, but the last two years has taught me to question things more and be more accepting of people who have unpopular points of view, so wouldn't label someone as a quack who thinks that. We mustn't forget many people have been demonized in the past because they have an unpopular opinion, yet have been proven right: Galileo being a classic example. Evil can be found on both ends of the political spectrum, on the far left, just as much as the hard right. I agree corruption is bad, but it's just as much of a problem on the left as the right. Neither side is squeaky clean. I could post examples of both, but won't because it'll just derail the thread. I consider critical race theory and gender ideology to be evil, yet of course I don't have any problem with ethnic minorities and trans people. I don't tie nasty ideologies with people, unless they support them and even then, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Quite often feeling marginalized from society can drive one to extremism and the same applies to the hard right. I'm also aware people can be manipulated and some may believe they're being virtuous for supporting a cause or organisation, yet are unaware of the extremist elements. Are you aware of the conflict between trans rights and women's rights? Can you even define what a woman is, without offending some people? How does one go about resolving this? Is it possible? Why not try to understand why someone votes for a politician you disagree with, before dismissing them as bad? It's possible they don't agree with everything, they just consider them to be the least bad option. As I said before, maybe they've felt discriminated against or marginalized? Have you considered the party you vote for might be the greater evil? What if you're wrong? How is suppression of right wing views good for democracy? If we're not allowed to hear all views, both good and bad, then I don't see how democracy can function. Regarding the January riots. It's plausible agent provocateurs were put there by the Democrats. I'm not saying this is definitely true, but wouldn't rule anything out given the corruption which is known to happen on both sites. And don't you think it's odd the rioters didn't have guns? If the rioters really wanted an insurrection then one would've thought they would have been armed. It seemed like a protest which turned violent, which I obviously don't condone, but I could say the same about riots in the name of left wing causes, some of which have resulted in greater loss of life and property, yet not received the same level of condemnation by the mainstream media. Just a few things you might not be aware of. Both the Democrat and Republican parties have discriminated against black people in the past. Plenty of non-straight/white people are conservative. It's true minorities are more likely to be left leaning, but not all of them vote the same. Some black people still believe the Democrats are more racist than the Republicans, because they: disagree with critical race theory, get called all sorts of racial slurs i.e. Uncle Tom, when they express right wing views and Biden saying "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black." didn't help. Yes, I know Trump has also said some racist things "Laziness is a trait in blacks.". Neither side is perfect. Pick your poison. The terms people of colour and African-American are deemed to be offensive by many black people, especially conservatives, who consider themselves to be American first and foremost, they just happen to have a darker skin tone. It's true, everything is offensive to some people. It's impossible to avoid it. You can't win. Many gay people resent the term LGBT. They have fallen out with trans activists who have accused them of transphobia for refusing to consider trans people as potential partners. Lesbians have taken the brunt of this. They don't want sex with people with penises and are fed up with being told they're bigoted. In the UK, a group of people left Stonewall (an LGBT charity) to form LGB Alliance because they felt threatened by gender ideology. Transgenderism is a complex topic and gender ideology is political, rather than scientific. It's misguided to lump them all into one group. A middle aged male with autogynephilia i.e. gets sexually aroused at seeing themself as female, is psychologically very different to a teenage female who wants to appear masculine, due to a history of unwanted sexual attention and abuse from males. Not all non-straight people agree with pride. Many believe it reinforces stereotypes and some events are overtly sexual, therefore inappropriate for children and shouldn't occur in public view. Quite often woke organisations who display pride flags and push diversity, only do so in countries where this is accepted. They don't have pride insignia on their Arabic websites and branches. It's just virtue signalling. This represents the lowest, of the low. Personally speaking. I would run a mile if I went to an organisation for a job and discovered it was plastered in rainbows and BLM insignia, but would do the same if they displayed English Defense League posters. The problem is nowadays it only works one way. Left wing posters and memes are tolerated, yet the same is not applied to the right. I do feel uncomfortable dealing with someone who puts pronouns in their email signature because I feel as though they're more likely to take offense to something I say, when none was intended and report me to HR. Keep this kind of crap out of work. |
| pcprogrammer:
--- Quote from: Neper on August 19, 2022, 10:55:31 am --- --- Quote from: emece67 on August 18, 2022, 07:36:56 pm ---I realize now that my opinion about some other people on this thread has changed. In some cases dramatically and to worst. There is the obvious possibility that the opinion that some other members of the forum have about me to also have changed in the same sense. This is why I think that it is a big error to allow this kind of threads. --- End quote --- If anything, they're divisive and they poison the atmosphere. Why can't the people starting those discussions take them to the usual political ratholes instead of spoiling the fun on here? --- End quote --- Nobody is forcing you to read threads like these. Even though this is an engineering forum, these issues have an influence on many engineers daily lives, and I encourage this kind of discussions. Life is more than just engineering. My point of view on positive discrimination in this respect is that it should not be taken so far that a lesser candidate gets a job just because it belongs to a minority. Only when there are equally experienced or educated candidates for a single job it should be in favor of the candidate from a minority group. For the rest the procedure should be blind, just like "lady justice". And there lies a whole other can of worms to be opened, "lady justice" >:D |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |