General > General Technical Chat
Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 19, 2022, 12:46:27 pm ---Straight, white men are at the top of society, because they hold most positions of power.
--- End quote ---
You mean, like Obama, the queen of England, the members of the Chinese communist party, Maria Theresia, Angela Merkel, the iron lady, should I go on? We could write an endless list here.
Did you know that woman do 80% of purchasing decisions? Does this sound like men are in charge?
Maybe men are in the top positions, because they dont mind working 18 hours a day including weekends, sacrificing the chance of having a normal family life, and having the right combination of personnel traits. Which personnel traits are not distributed equally. If you don't like that, go back a million years and ask woman to join the mammoth hunt, so that evolution can take a different route.
pcprogrammer:
Here is one for the road. Slavery still exist, and guess who the new master is :-//
MONEY
Zero999:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 19, 2022, 01:41:29 pm ---Zero999, I would agree with you besides one point and that is transwomen (i.e. biologically men, reassigned after birth) competing in women's sport is unfair.
There are examples of teenage male teams trouncing professional female teams - the competitive edge that high testosterone and higher bone density and different skeletal and muscular build gives you over a woman is like trying to compete with Tiger Woods as an amateur teeist.
It is a tricky problem to solve, though. I don't think there's an answer that doesn't offend some group, but then most compromises are like that.
I'm very much in favour of people being given some basic education on being respectful of others. I don't care if you're Jewish, Catholic, gay, trans, straight, black, Asian or white - it's all ultimately irrelevant to me. What I do care about is that you have mutual respect for everyone else, provided that is paid back. I have no time for a-holes or disrespectful individuals, and it has no bearing at all on their background.
--- End quote ---
I agree. The same also should apply to female prisons spaces such as women's changing rooms, especially when the transperson hasn't had bottom surgery and rape/domestic violence centres.
I was playing devil's advocate in that post.
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 19, 2022, 02:00:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 19, 2022, 12:46:27 pm ---Straight, white men are at the top of society, because they hold most positions of power.
--- End quote ---
You mean, like Obama, the queen of England, the members of the Chinese communist party, Maria Theresia, Angela Merkel, the iron lady, should I go on? We could write an endless list here.
Did you know that woman do 80% of purchasing decisions? Does this sound like men are in charge?
Maybe men are in the top positions, because they dont mind working 18 hours a day including weekends, sacrificing the chance of having a normal family life, and having the right combination of personnel traits. Which personnel traits are not distributed equally. If you don't like that, go back a million years and ask woman to join the mammoth hunt, so that evolution can take a different route.
--- End quote ---
I agree.
Again, I was playing devil's advocate by explaing why many people support DEI training.
Perhaps I didn't make the fact I was playing devil's advocate clear enough. Post edited.
Neper:
--- Quote from: paulca on August 19, 2022, 11:18:03 am ---
--- Quote from: Neper on August 19, 2022, 10:55:31 am ---If anything, they're divisive and they poison the atmosphere.
If anything, they are diverse of opinion and reflect the atmosphere in the industry.
Why can't the people starting those discussions take them to the usual political ratholes instead of spoiling the fun on here?
Why can't these people starting those discussions not feel welcome discussing engineer's and engineering issues on here?
--- End quote ---
Fix it for you.
--- End quote ---
Just forget it.
tpowell1830:
--- Quote from: paulca on August 17, 2022, 03:36:13 pm ---So the almost daily emails I get in work now are starting to become "uncomfortable".
I fully support the objectives. I just question the narrative on grounds of irony/contradiction and hypocrisy.
First, since when did it become "Equity", rather than "Equality".
Second, since when was it inclusive to have an advert for a women's only event in same email, to discuss incentivising women in tech.
I really have to start questioning their definitions of these words they use as all I am seeing is latent discrimination becoming blatant discrimination.
A recent email highlighted women's success by increasing the hiring rate for women to 47%! Did the applicant ratio of men to women change? Nope. Is 47% about 1000% over representative? Yep.
Then they have the irrelevant discriminators. Sex, sexuality, race, nationality, gender, preferred gender, preferred pro-noun and asking everyone to put their preferred pro-noun on their email signatures!
It seems they are looking at diversity and equality in a completely different way these days. It seems to be more about discriminating, labelling, asking people to identify and box themselves, counting them and publishing metrics on "diversity" to managers and hirers, so that they might avoid the "Straight white males" that are holding the company back!
However. I already tried to raise this as an honest discussion somewhere else and it just got locked instantly. This is not surprising me. It's facism. If you don't tow the party line, if you don't sing with their narrative you are obviously a right wing bigot who should be silenced quickly.
I'm honestly in fear that if I raised it in work with HR I would get disciplined.
I don't feel comfortable as a straight white male anymore in work. I feel like I'm unwelcome. I feel like promotions and pay rises are going to pass me by and go to women or "diverse" people instead. Look I know some men have and continue to be assholes to women, but I don't think it's fair punishing the entire sex, especially not in work. Keep that shit on Facebook and Twitter.
Where are the discussions on skills diversity? Ability diversity? Teamwork diversity? Diversity in leadership styles, methodologies, approaches.... it seems the whole point has been forgotten in this wave of virtue signalling non-sense over less than 10% of the population in one hand and blatant discrimination of male employees to boot.
--- End quote ---
I read your other lengthy post where you talked about your struggle with depression and this has clarified to me some of your POVs that you have written on this forum. I am glad that you posted that, which helps people understand the struggles that people have with depression. The fact that Dave is suspending the rules for this thread has allowed many discussions to ebb and flow that otherwise would not come to light.
I also wanted to let you know that you are not the only one that sees and suffer from all of the DEI policies that are more and more becoming the norm. This is obvious now, seeing that most of the posts are in agreement with your observations. Seeing all of the open opinions is cathartic, to say the least (thank you Dave).
But, for the rest of the posters on this thread, including the ones protesting this thread, shows what open discussion looks like in a democratic society. I, for one, am very pleased to see open discussion with minimal emotional outbursts of name calling (except for a few).
Since some here think that this forum is a democracy that can vote (which it is not, and rightly so), I vote that we continue the discussion in much the same manner that has, so far, been conducted.
I only wanted to say that, as threads get longer, at times, the subject gets broader and many times starts sliding off-topic. Can we move back to the subject of the OP please? But by no means stop discussing.
Finally, if it is not obvious yet, thank you Paulca for starting this thread.
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