General > General Technical Chat

Diversity, Equity and Inclusion

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fourfathom:

--- Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on August 19, 2022, 09:31:25 pm ---Keep in mind the right whingers(sic) gave JP a break from harsh criticism when he got sick. But he's overdue having his wings clipped.
--- End quote ---

Well if you're going to clip his wings, do try to do a better job than the video in this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/diversity-equity-and-inclusion/msg4364650/#msg4364650
In it the main argument is that JP is comparing male/female pay within the same disciplines and not across the entire male/female population:  Women don't generally get a paycheck for raising their children, and "care" professions usually pay less, so we should apparently embrace socialism to correct this equity problem.

But isn't that the point?  Unless you believe that we are coerced into choosing our professions?  I do believe that peoples interests (for example, things vs people) are deeply rooted, genetically and socially, and last-minute efforts to achieve equity or proportional representation within a field are doomed to failure.  There is room for cultural change, but trying to fit a square peg into a round hole isn't good for either the peg or the hole.

As for the working environment, I am friends with a woman who has a very impressive tech background (physics, optics, business, systems) -- we met at a standards-body meeting and my company ended up hiring her.  When she and I discussed her experience in engineering she told me that she has endured gender-related difficulties.  I haven't pressed her on this so I can't be sure, but I suspect that some of it came from a "women aren't supposed to be good at this stuff" attitude (which I believe is changing), but most of it is because she was a beautiful woman surrounded by men.  And during the later stages of her career she was working with sales and marketing men, and those guys can be animals!  Also, much of her experience was on the USA east coast, and the attitudes there appear to be different than I saw in the Silicon Valley region.

So I believe that the Engineering culture is different than the Sales/Marketing culture (or the Professional Sports culture, or any other culture.)  When I used to go to trade shows I would have a completely different after-hours experience when I hung out with sales/marketing vs with engineering.  And there are regional differences too.  So it's complicated.

Ed.Kloonk:

--- Quote from: fourfathom on August 20, 2022, 12:42:02 am ---
--- Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on August 19, 2022, 09:31:25 pm ---Keep in mind the right whingers(sic) gave JP a break from harsh criticism when he got sick. But he's overdue having his wings clipped.
--- End quote ---

Well if you're going to clip his wings, do try to do a better job than the video in this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/diversity-equity-and-inclusion/msg4364650/#msg4364650
In it the main argument is that JP is comparing male/female pay within the same disciplines and not across the entire male/female population:  Women don't generally get a paycheck for raising their children, and "care" professions usually pay less, so we should apparently embrace socialism to correct this equity problem.

--- End quote ---

All the different reasons I see for hating on JP get a bit tedious. For me, I think it's funny how he used to go on about the family unit and a woman's place and all that, yet, when you look at his own family circumstances of late... It's easy to take cheap shots at someone so verbose.

I don't particularly like much of JP's greatest hits. What I do appreciate though is his conviction. Right, wrong or otherwise I'll listen to what he has to say because I know he has at least thought about it not just parroting something off twitter.

Circlotron:

--- Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on August 20, 2022, 01:14:41 am ---I don't particularly like much of JP's greatest hits. What I do appreciate though is his conviction. Right, wrong or otherwise I'll listen to what he has to say because I know he has at least thought about it not just parroting something off twitter.

--- End quote ---
Another interesting person who speaks with what seems to me to be well thought out words is Ben Shapiro. He can present quite a case and pull numerous diverse facts and figures out of thin air.

pcprogrammer:
@paulca, sorry to hear about your depression. If this is caused by your job and the environment surrounding it, my advise is to try and find another job where you can thrive.

I myself have been in a situation where I had a break down, which took over 9 months to recover from and being advised to return to the same job, which was a big mistake. Nothing had changed and within a year I was nearing the point of another break down. I quit that job on medical reasons and luckily received unemployment benefits to pull me through a period of two and a half years to get back on my feet. Unable to find a new job I started my own small company. Did that for 17 years and had enough of it so decided to quit. Sure I had earned enough money to make that decision, but I never regret it.

I'm very glad I don't have to deal with the idiocy the working world is going through at the moment.

This thread is very diverse in issues with a somewhat common ground in discrimination, either positive or negative. To explain my earlier post about slavery still being in existence, it was brought on by the talk about the words master and slave. There are some that already explained that they are just words and it is always important to place them in context of usage.

Looking at modern society slavery still exists in one form or another. Most of us are constantly enslaving our selves by wanting more and as such putting pressure on earning more money to hopefully improve our lives. The master here being money.

But there are many other forms. Think of abusive relations where either the man or the woman oppresses their spouse, often by the use of force. And yes, there are also abusive wives, it is not just a male dominated sector of pain. And many of the slaves here let it happen because they still love their spouse, and he does not mean it that way, etc.

Also take a look at the world of SM. Here it is very normal practice, but there other terms are used to name the participants, but mistress is just the female version of master. Dominatrix is also used to name the same role.

So I join the others in stating that words don't harm, but the intent of the user might.

The human race is somewhat like a pendulum, constantly swinging without finding a balance, going from hype to hype. Maybe one day it will be found, the balance, but I fear not any time soon. Still driven way to much by testosterone and estrogen. Because whether we like it or not there are differences between not just man and women but also between people in general. And I guess that is a good thing. It would get boring real quick if everybody was like me or you.

Edit: fixed a typo

AnalogueLove1867:
Oh well. I guess every online website open to the public is inevitably going to become another reddit due to current societal pressures.

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