General > General Technical Chat
Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
ebastler:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 23, 2022, 11:56:48 am ---We could also all agree that the general poltics side of it is done, and just keep it to engineering industry related matters and/or personal stories and advice going forward maybe?
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Good luck getting those worms back into the can... ;)
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 23, 2022, 11:56:48 am ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 23, 2022, 11:33:59 am ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on August 23, 2022, 11:02:48 am ---We all know US politics is bullshit... and hot things are hot... let's not stray off-topic.
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How do you suggest we discuss identity politics, without politics?
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We could also all agree that the general poltics side of it is done, and just keep it to engineering industry related matters and/or personal stories and advice going forward maybe?
The OP is after all after advice and is sharing his personal story.
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Ok, fair enough.
EEVblog:
--- Quote from: ebastler on August 23, 2022, 11:59:17 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 23, 2022, 11:56:48 am ---We could also all agree that the general poltics side of it is done, and just keep it to engineering industry related matters and/or personal stories and advice going forward maybe?
--- End quote ---
Good luck getting those worms back into the can... ;)
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The other option is calling it done and locking the thread. I don't want to have to do that, as many posts are very insightful and helpful for the OP and many others. #
As always it only takes one or two people to ruin it though and get into a tiff that goes on for pages.
Nominal Animal:
I wonder how large part of the objection to D-E-I is that it is never discussed, just adopted as axiomatically correct.
For whatever reason, it seems that people are adopting ideas and concepts and completely rejecting any kind of examination of them.
We will never be able to discuss say intersectionalism or the difference between equity and equality, because the willingness to examine the concepts is an even worse offense than simply rejecting them. (Intersectionalism is related here because it is precisely the origin for equity replacing equality; and many of its proponents openly admit that they believe meritocracy, any kind of individual merit based systems, are their biggest enemy, worse than any oppression per se.)
To simplify a bit, it is easier to be a bigot, because then only your values differ from those of the D-E-I proponents. If you demand meritocratic treatment, equality among individuals, and reject tribality, you violate their entire ideological basis, and are therefore a worse enemy.
For the same reasons I value diversity, I value discussions and arguments over important matters. I know that if I was a ruler, I would be a despot; and that if I only explain how I see things, and let the majority rule (you know, democracy), then the results are likely to be better because the extremes tend to be "filed off" and something that a big majority can accept, will be done. (Roughly speaking; power and money having such strong corruptive tendencies, and whatnot.)
Therefore, I find this rejection of rational, critical discussion about such core tenets and axioms, a deadly risk.
Companies and most organisations tend to have a hierarchical structure, which makes them at the same time more and less vulnerable. More, because only a small number of executives need to be swayed, to sway the complete company. Less, because if you have good executives (meaning hungry for money and power, but still team players and somewhat controllable by the board or owners so they won't simply sell the company for their personal benefit), they will be swayed more by commercial reality than the social one. I know very few executives outside Finland, so I don't know where on that swayability spectrum typical ones lie, and it would be interesting to hear your views.
IanB:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on August 23, 2022, 04:07:01 pm ---I wonder how large part of the objection to D-E-I is that it is never discussed, just adopted as axiomatically correct.
For whatever reason, it seems that people are adopting ideas and concepts and completely rejecting any kind of examination of them.
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Sometimes it is discussed, and reasons are given. For example, having a diversity policy helps to maximize the pool of candidates when hiring. Also, having a diverse workforce helps to bring more perspectives to product design and development, and it helps to reflect more customer viewpoints and avoids narrow stereotyping, therefore potentially broadening product appeal. (It could help to avoid, for example, the famous automatic hand soap dispenser that only recognizes lightly pigmented skin.)
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