General > General Technical Chat
Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
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EEVblog:

--- Quote from: paulca on August 24, 2022, 10:09:11 am ---
--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 24, 2022, 09:55:53 am ---Did not do managerial work long because it did not agree with me that well. Can work with others but rather work alone 8)

--- End quote ---

Interesting to hear.  I am being politely "herded" towards management.

*snip*

So... you see why pushing me into management is pushing me into failure.
--- End quote ---

I suspect that's the idea. You are being handed your hat.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxOxuSyovEy7f0JbC0AFIVnNl0VCQfvRe0
james_s:

--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 24, 2022, 10:10:35 am ---I don't think anyone disagrees with it. Let me ask you this question then:
You have a company, that's goal is to make as much profit as possible.
They claim, that woman make 70% of the pay of men.
So a company's best interest would be to hire as many woman as possible, since they are cheaper. Or offering equal pay, and getting better candidates. They would make it a policy, since they can save money on HR.
So something just doesn't add up. Either the job is not equally done, or maybe it has something to do with the facts that men work longer hours. Or that 92% of workspace injuries are men.
How about equal pay to equal value, instead of equal pay to equal job title.

--- End quote ---

That's a paradox that I've been pointing out for years, and it really drives a certain group of people nuts because they don't have an answer for it. If women could be hired to do the same job as men for less money then companies wouldn't hire any men to do that job. Yet there is a "problem" that most of the people in those jobs are men.
rsjsouza:

--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 24, 2022, 08:33:41 am ---
--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 24, 2022, 05:40:14 am ---(...)They do quote “There are plenty of women qualified for top jobs: they should be able to get them.” which indicates the jobs need to be filled with qualified women, not just women.

--- End quote ---
So maybe the assumption is that "qualification only is required to so the job" is wrong.
(...)
--- End quote ---
This is what I find the most idiotic of all this - governments and entities trying to force an equilibrium artificially. Even if one is qualified for a job on academics and personal traits, there is also another factor that activists and proponents of these equality measures always forget: free will. What makes one think they actually want the job and its immense weight on personal life? That is somehow completely swept under the rug when doing these pseudo-analysis

The DEI can be beneficial but, if applied indiscriminately and punitively across the board, it is very detrimental. I've been seeing this for more than a decade and know through friends how this is part of the internal regiments of HR departments.


--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 24, 2022, 10:10:35 am ---So something just doesn't add up. Either the job is not equally done, or maybe it has something to do with the facts that men work longer hours. Or that 92% of workspace injuries are men.
How about equal pay to equal value, instead of equal pay to equal job title.

--- End quote ---
Indeed. I will be much more convinced that activists are actually interested in closing the gender gap when they start rallying up for equal opportunities in the blue collar segment of the infrastructure, energy and utility sectors.
fourfathom:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 24, 2022, 02:28:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: paulca on August 24, 2022, 10:09:11 am ---
--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 24, 2022, 09:55:53 am ---Did not do managerial work long because it did not agree with me that well. Can work with others but rather work alone 8)

--- End quote ---

Interesting to hear.  I am being politely "herded" towards management.

*snip*

So... you see why pushing me into management is pushing me into failure.
--- End quote ---

I suspect that's the idea. You are being handed your hat.

--- End quote ---

Or perhaps they value paulca's insight into the product line and the engineering process.

I'm a good engineer, and pretty good team leader, and an adequate manager as long as the group is smart and motivated. 

My last real job was at a startup where I was a founder.  I was Director of Systems Engineering, where the system was a telecom/datacom switch with optical and electrical interfaces.  I was also system architect, and took on the task of designing a couple of the ICs (gate arrays).  I did the management because we needed it done and we needed someone who could manage and guide the technical design process.

As the company grew and the management became more "pure management" I was less and less enthusiastic (and I wasn't motivated to do my best at it).  Fortunately, given my status in the company and our plans for future developments, I was able to move into an "Advanced Development" role, with a much smaller team.  Warning though: any job with "Advanced" in the title is pretty tenuous (which suited me just fine.) 

When our company was acquired, I was able to move back onto the "Engineering Track".  The company actually had senior, well-paid technical positions, where we mostly worked on forward-looking products and technology, worked with Business Development, etc. (not much soldering-iron stuff).  If you wanted to maximize your income and influence you were still better off in upper management, but just as not everyone is cut out to be an engineer, so it is in management.  Often the "dual track" system is a fraud, but this one was actually pretty good, and I was much happier.

But not all companies have room for more than a few senior engineers, so you eventually reach a plateau.  Management is a way to extend yourself, especially if you can have a blend of technology and "people" tasks.  At least in my field, the days of pure management (MBAs and "a good manager can manage anything") seem to be waning.  A good technical manager needs domain experience.
ebastler:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on August 24, 2022, 02:28:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: paulca on August 24, 2022, 10:09:11 am ---So... you see why pushing me into management is pushing me into failure.
--- End quote ---

I suspect that's the idea. You are being handed your hat.

--- End quote ---

That is far-fetched. And writing this to a guy who seems prone to overthink things and worry a lot -- just for the sake of a punchline and a cool film reference -- is also rather insensitive.

I am with fourfathom here and would assume good intentions on the employer's part. Nevertheless paulca's reservations are justified. While it is flattering to be offered a management position, one may be better off declining the offer if it does not feel right.
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