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Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
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fourfathom:

--- Quote from: paulca on August 26, 2022, 06:20:15 pm ---If we shift towards a "Pack your desk, your fired", on Monday morning approach, like the US, banks WONT lend people enough to buy houses here without 50% deposits and stupid interest.
--- End quote ---

About that: Even in the USA, most companies recognize that good employees are worth keeping for the long-haul.  Personally, I would usually stay at a job for five years or more -- I was at my pre-startup company for ten years (and I joined that one as a startup as well).  I've only been fired once, and that was (I believe) due mostly to internal inter-department rivalry.  I was a test tech but Engineering kept grabbing me off the production line to help build and debug new stuff, and the Test manager couldn't stop them -- so he fired me.   I also quit the next job the day before I was supposed to start, but that's a different story.

That "lay off 10%" policy I mentioned was pretty extreme, most companies were more moderate about it.  I assume that the big "10%" company found that the more typical policy resulted in a gradual rise in mediocrity.  I've seen it happen elsewhere as over time the sharper employees depart for greener pastures, leaving behind the ones who don't care or can't cut it elsewhere. 

Even in a good company you can become bored if the job ends up being supporting legacy products with only occasional incremental development.  That's why I gravitated to startups -- no legacy product and a clean sheet of paper.  Why be stuck supporting a ten-year old design when you know it can be done better, faster, and cheaper with new technology?  That, plus the opportunity to learn new stuff?

But if you quit you need to do it without burning bridges, and sometimes (in a downturn) you are just plain lucky to have a job.  Be practical about it. And bear in mind that my advice is 20 years old -- I retired at a fairly young age.
SiliconWizard:
Well, since the "great resign" movement in the US (and in other parts of the world as well!), I don't think companies are currently much into firing people on the spot like this anymore (unless the employee did something awful.) They have a hard time enough keeping employees as it is.
bdunham7:

--- Quote from: paulca on August 26, 2022, 06:20:15 pm ---I remind people of this when they shrug about US encroachment into our legal rights and employment rights.  (No surprise, US companies want UK contractors to work US terms).  If we shift towards a "Pack your desk, your fired", on Monday morning approach, like the US, banks WONT lend people enough to buy houses here without 50% deposits and stupid interest.

--- End quote ---

That isn't an issue here, why would it be there?  Different banking rules?  Is it harder to repossess the house in case of default? 

The ability to fire on-the-spot for reasonable cause really doesn't hurt reasonable people.  And unless you adopt pretty extreme labor laws, the cost of shedding employees due to performance or redundancy is not going to be much more than the actual policies of most established large US companies.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2022/08/26/ford-salaried-workers-who-lost-jobs-now-review-severance-offers/65458898007/

b/t/w, anyone who buys into the line that mass layoffs are just a sign of change and the company is actually just fine, I have a new *&%!-coin to sell you.
james_s:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 27, 2022, 03:53:07 am ---The ability to fire on-the-spot for reasonable cause really doesn't hurt reasonable people.  And unless you adopt pretty extreme labor laws, the cost of shedding employees due to performance or redundancy is not going to be much more than the actual policies of most established large US companies.

--- End quote ---

The thing is, in most states you don't need reasonable cause, you can fire anyone at any time without reason, the problem with this being that it's very easy to fire them for a reason you should not be able to by simply not stating the reason. I don't really have a great solution for this, but I do think a person should be protected from firing for anything that they legally do outside of work on their own time while not representing their employer.
Ed.Kloonk:

--- Quote from: james_s on August 27, 2022, 04:05:18 am ---
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 27, 2022, 03:53:07 am ---The ability to fire on-the-spot for reasonable cause really doesn't hurt reasonable people.  And unless you adopt pretty extreme labor laws, the cost of shedding employees due to performance or redundancy is not going to be much more than the actual policies of most established large US companies.

--- End quote ---

The thing is, in most states you don't need reasonable cause, you can fire anyone at any time without reason, the problem with this being that it's very easy to fire them for a reason you should not be able to by simply not stating the reason. I don't really have a great solution for this, but I do think a person should be protected from firing for anything that they legally do outside of work on their own time while not representing their employer.

--- End quote ---

WRT unfair dismissal laws, way back in 2005 we had a thing called work choices. Look it up on wiki for an overview. I'll only discuss the specific BS with it privately. But I will say it sure is a master class on how to fuck up federal industrial relations.

Today, in the news they are talking about actually implementing a law that requires companies with 250+ employees to report the salaries because, apparently, one gender(?) feels it is being ripped off.

My beef is that the idiots asking for this obviously haven't looked at the history of this being implemented in other jurisdictions and I don't need my crystal ball to tell you what will happen.
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