Author Topic: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!  (Read 6587 times)

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Offline TimFox

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Offline mwb1100

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2023, 04:59:50 pm »
Firefox acts as a very nice PDF reader (probably other browsers too).  I also like STDU Viewer, a free reader with a nice tabbed document interface, no nags.  The only shortcoming is that it crashes more often than I like (but infrequently enough that I still use it most of the time).  It's no longer developed/maintained so the crashes will never be addressed.

The tabbed doc UI is what made me move to it so many years ago.

STDU handles several other document formats (including djvu - so this post is actually on topic), but I don't know how well it handles them since I'm pretty much PDF-only.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2023, 11:29:18 pm »
STDU Viewer seemed nice on a quick look, but fails to open pdf files created on my Boox Note Air. Other clients open them, though.
 

Offline ELS122Topic starter

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2023, 12:57:58 am »
99% of the world uses PDF for document distribution. Get over it. You can have the best djvu reader in the world, but that means nothing.
The most interesting aspect of this thread is it reminded me that djvu exists. I haven't seen a thing about it for years.

Finally someone understands the point I'm making.

DjVuViewer is an amazingly thought out program, and I just wish it was the same for pdf viewers, or other software.
I guess MediaInfo and Notepad++ I could also put on the "great software" list, but that's like putting bread on a list of great foods, its so simple it's hard to get it wrong.
With those 3, it's so intuitive, you shouldnt even bother writing up instructions how to use the programs. Meanwhile something like acrobat, audacity for that matter, or I guess foobar2000 has a lot worse UI, you don't just automatically understand how the program works. And that's my problem with other software.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2023, 03:58:16 am »
djvu is awesome! main reason: WinDJView, software to read djvu files is incredible, it's the best
0 fuss, very intuitive UI, every thing you would want can be done in the settings.
Lightning fast zoom, no problems with it taking years to load a single page after you zoomed in like you often do with pdfs. You also get buttons to fit the page vertically or horizontally
All the modes like side-by-side are right there at the top, no need to go into a menu
"Back" button
Also a select tool, crop out a part and export it as high resolution png or whatever, Or zoom into it, Or highlight it, Or add a bookmark, Or copy it ofc.


And recently I was looking at a djvu file and I wanted to like screenshot the page, out of curiosity I right clicked, and guess what prompt there was... "Export page...", exporting the page in high resolution as a png or gif or jpeg, etc. There's also "page information" which shows details about what images are on the page in what resolution.

I mean you don't get anything like this with pdf's... too bad it's not very common to find djvu files.

Such a shame most software isn't thought out and user friendly like this is, the world would truly be a better place if everything was like that.
The problem isn't PDF, the problem is that you aren't using Linux. The Okular PDF reader (just to give 1 example out of many PDF readers available for Linux) can do all the things you mention.

Okular is available on Windows (I think I already gave a link before, but they've changed things around a bit.)
https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Release_win64/lastStableBuild/artifact/
Works plenty fine on Windows.

It does have a feature that you can select and save, but not for the whole page.

I'm not sure I understood your point. Can you elaborate on what you want to achieve?
Do you mean you like to be able to save individual pages? (Like, say, saving one or a number of pages of a given PDF to a PDF file?)
In that case, no, it doesn't allow you to do this as far as I've looked.
But you can always use a virtual PDF printer to achieve the same result. So, yeah. Or use a PDF editor (not viewer), as doing this is more in the editing category.
 

Offline mwb1100

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2023, 05:08:53 am »
Okular is available on Windows (I think I already gave a link before, but they've changed things around a bit.)
https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Release_win64/lastStableBuild/artifact/
Works plenty fine on Windows.

Thanks for this pointer!  Works great for me so far and it supports tabbed documents. For some reason I didn't think it did.

I might have found a reason to move on from STDU.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2023, 05:23:26 am »
Okular is available on Windows (I think I already gave a link before, but they've changed things around a bit.)
https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Release_win64/lastStableBuild/artifact/
Works plenty fine on Windows.

Thanks for this pointer!  Works great for me so far and it supports tabbed documents. For some reason I didn't think it did.

Yep, I knew Okular from Linux but only found out there was a working Windows build a few months ago. Before that I was mainly using PDF Xchange which was fine, but the more recent versions tended to be more and more bloated.
Okular also supports digital signatures, annotations. And, it can automatically reload an open PDF that has changed on disk - something that many other viewers do not support. That's pretty great when you are working on a document and want to see the PDF output. For instance when using LaTeX.

 

Offline Karel

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2023, 06:10:46 am »
I guess MediaInfo and Notepad++ I could also put on the "great software" list, but that's like putting bread on a list of great foods, its so simple it's hard to get it wrong.

Regarding Notepad++, I prefer Kate:

https://kate-editor.org/
 
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Offline mariush

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2023, 06:49:33 am »
I'd rather have EPUB  instead of pdf or djvu but I'm aware of the limitations and differences.. pdf is design with printing in mind, with page sizes and all that, epub has limited support for that, it's meant to re-flow, scale with display size, to read books on whatever screen you have ...

EPUB is a simple zip file that contains xhtml and images and optional fonts and media. If you don't have a viewer, you can still open the zip and load the html file in a browser and read the text.

but it's much easier to decode compared to djvu's arithmetic coding and odd image compression algorithms  and pdf has so many extra things added.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2023, 04:39:07 pm »
I guess MediaInfo and Notepad++ I could also put on the "great software" list, but that's like putting bread on a list of great foods, its so simple it's hard to get it wrong.
Huh? Have you seen notepad? You really think its hard to get something like that wrong? I know its from MS, where the key expertise is crappy software, but still. Most of the world's editors are extremely annoying. The scintilla editor behind notepad++ is pretty well thought out.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2023, 07:57:44 pm »
I guess MediaInfo and Notepad++ I could also put on the "great software" list, but that's like putting bread on a list of great foods, its so simple it's hard to get it wrong.

Regarding Notepad++, I prefer Kate:

https://kate-editor.org/

Yes it's pretty good. Also a KDE app like Okular.
I mostly use Geany, but otherwise Kate.
 

Offline themadhippy

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2023, 08:55:46 pm »
Must admit one of the things i missed the most when jumping to linux was paint.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2023, 09:57:39 pm »
I miss Paint Shop Pro. It's always GIMP you get with Linux, which is about 10x more complicated than I need.
 


Offline ELS122Topic starter

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2023, 10:40:00 pm »
Must admit one of the things i missed the most when jumping to linux was paint.

paint.net you mean? MS paint has so little features it's almost useless to use it, other than drawing basic stuff. Less versatile than paper
I like paint.net but it doesnt have much of a feature set either, GIMP has a lot more useful features but the UI is bad... I think it's open source tho so you could just fix the UI problems.

Paint.net has ad-ons which help a bunch, but they aren't that good. for example I have 2 vignette addons, one of then you can change the color of the vignette, but not the "depth" of the vignette, while the other one you only have a black vignette. Because of this I usually Ctrl+X the image, add a layer, put a black vignette on it, then adjust the image color shift until I get the color I want, then paste the image back on the bottom layer.  ;D I can't complain since the time wasted is worth less than the laughs I get about how silly it is.
What bugs me the most tho is that 100% hardness isn't 100%... it's just dumb, the only way to have a 100% hard line is to use the pencil tool which is fixed at 1 pixel size. While in Gimp the pen options work as you'd expect.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 10:42:18 pm by ELS122 »
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2023, 11:08:22 pm »
I use SumatraPDF for the regular viewing and Foxit 9.2 for more advanced tasks: it does not have the bloating of latter versions and it is still pretty functional, with its very useful "PDF printer" that allows me to export single or multiple pages with no fuss.
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Offline themadhippy

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2023, 11:47:17 pm »
Quote
MS paint has so little features it's almost useless to use it, other than drawing basic stuff. Less versatile than paper
bog standard,as included since windows 2.0 ms paint,simple and great for a quick sketch  with the added advantage you can attach the image to a document without digging out your scanner.It was also handy  for removing the tags on digital camera pictures.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2023, 04:52:15 am »
I think it's open source tho so you could just fix the UI problems.

Indeed. Couple of hours and job's a good 'un.

And yet... no-one who has agreed the UI is crap has actually attempted that, never mind managed to do it. Perhaps none of them has realised it's open source and therefore a piece of cake to fix.
 

Offline ELS122Topic starter

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2023, 07:06:33 am »
I think it's open source tho so you could just fix the UI problems.

Indeed. Couple of hours and job's a good 'un.

And yet... no-one who has agreed the UI is crap has actually attempted that, never mind managed to do it. Perhaps none of them has realised it's open source and therefore a piece of cake to fix.

Or maybe it's that they aren't willing to spend time improving a program that they don't like. it's sort of a thought paradox.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2023, 07:20:39 am »
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2023, 11:13:07 pm »
https://okular.kde.org/download/
Quote
Windows
The Microsoft Store is the recommended place to install Okular, the version there has been tested by our developers and the Microsoft Store  :bullshit: provides seamless updates when new versions are released. If for some strange reason you can't use the Microsoft Store you can try the stable version from release nightly build.  :-+ There are also experimental nightly builds, for which testing and bug reports would be welcome.
Windows 10 LTSC Enterprise 2019 does not have an appstore and I have no intentions of ever installing that rubbish.

Okular is available on Windows (I think I already gave a link before, but they've changed things around a bit.)
https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Release_win64/lastStableBuild/artifact/
Works plenty fine on Windows.
Thank you.
 

Offline ELS122Topic starter

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2023, 02:24:50 am »
https://okular.kde.org/download/
Quote
Windows
The Microsoft Store is the recommended place to install Okular, the version there has been tested by our developers and the Microsoft Store  :bullshit: provides seamless updates when new versions are released. If for some strange reason you can't use the Microsoft Store you can try the stable version from release nightly build.  :-+ There are also experimental nightly builds, for which testing and bug reports would be welcome.
Windows 10 LTSC Enterprise 2019 does not have an appstore and I have no intentions of ever installing that rubbish.

Okular is available on Windows (I think I already gave a link before, but they've changed things around a bit.)
https://binary-factory.kde.org/job/Okular_Release_win64/lastStableBuild/artifact/
Works plenty fine on Windows.
Thank you.

Windows 7 still works fine. aren't that many programs that don't support it, the only ones that don't have a specific check so that they dont install on windows 7. And you can just get older version for them that support it. just a very few selection of programs tho.
 
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Offline Zoli

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2023, 06:22:26 am »
I miss Paint Shop Pro. It's always GIMP you get with Linux, which is about 10x more complicated than I need.
I'm still using PSP7.04; I don't know any other program able to open a 40MB TIFF for edit under 1s...
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2023, 07:51:38 am »
I am sure this is a coincidence...

I downloaded Okular and ran the standalone under Sandboxie (which is what I normally do to avoid polluting my PC with stuff I may not like, but allowing it to work in a real environment). Seemed OK but Okular didn't seem to bring anything to my party, so removed it. However, via a circuitous route, I found out it could display markdown properly - most other markdown-aware things display it as raw weird stuff with the proper display as a separate 'preview', so this was attractive. Accordingly I then ran the installer version of Okular.

Didn't seem to work right and complained that it couldn't write to some file because of permissions, and then Bitdefender popped up and killed it. WTF! Long story short, my TheJournal executable was banished from my PC, Miranda and Waterfox lost their profiles and other bad things happened.

Seemed to be a registry delete-fest too. Fortunately, blasting back my C drive en bloc from an image sorted it all out, and again running the standalone Okular in a sandbox was fine. As was running the installer version in a VM.

Highly unlikely Okular downloaded from KDE is malware (which was the Bitdefender report), but in several years that's the first time Bitdefender has twisted its knickers so messily. I am putting it down to coincidence but thought it worth mentioning if it encourages people to ensure they have regular backups.
 
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Offline Karel

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Re: djvu is better than pdf because the software doesnt suck!
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2023, 08:45:32 am »
Anti-malware creates more problems than it resolves.
They are not effective, very unreliable, consume resources, slowdown your pc and can mess things up.
The biggest virus is the person in front of the pc...
 
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