Author Topic: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)  (Read 16657 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3688
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2022, 03:26:20 am »
The L in solder in the USA is obviously silent.
Nobody here has ever heard the word "sodding" or would have any clue what it meant.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline TimFox

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9003
  • Country: us
  • Retired, now restoring antique test equipment
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2022, 03:28:05 am »
Quote
, but there are many words that do get a silent "L", for example: salmon, almond, would, yolk, half, folk, palm, could, psalm, calve, walk, ..
silent maybe,but in english english the  L affects how the word is pronounced.

Even in American English, there is a pronunciation difference between "calm" and "cam".
 

Online IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12537
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2022, 04:04:58 am »
Even in American English, there is a pronunciation difference between "calm" and "cam".

That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5571
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2022, 04:34:14 am »
Even in American English, there is a pronunciation difference between "calm" and "cam".

That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?

My knowledge of American dialect is not encyclopedic, but I know of several places where the word calm is pronounced with little or no ell sound.  But in all of those areas the word cam is easily distinguished because the sound of the a is totally different in the two words.  In no place that I have visited are the two words pronounced similarly.
 

Offline fourfathom

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2005
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2022, 04:40:19 am »
I pronounce the L in almond. I say ol-mond, but I've also heard all-mond and al-mond.
Here on the USA west coast we pronounce it all-mund.  I think "ahmand" is an east coast thing.
And I go with sodder. 
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
 
The following users thanked this post: RandallMcRee

Offline eti

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1801
  • Country: gb
  • MOD: a.k.a Unlokia, glossywhite, iamwhoiam etc
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2022, 04:50:36 am »
I’m not sure what lead me here, but it’s some’tin interesting to pass the time.

How to pronounce it properly? I guess there’s a 60/40 split in opinion… 😛
 
The following users thanked this post: newbrain, MK14

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3688
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2022, 04:52:04 am »
If almond is derived from the French amande, it would be a similar story to solder with the L spelling coming later.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2022, 05:24:08 am »
Quote
, but there are many words that do get a silent "L", for example: salmon, almond, would, yolk, half, folk, palm, could, psalm, calve, walk, ..
silent maybe,but in english english the  L affects how the word is pronounced.

Even in American English, there is a pronunciation difference between "calm" and "cam".

Almond, folk, palm, walk all have the L pronounced though in the case of folk and especially walk it's subtle. At least here in the Northwest. I read somewhere years ago that people in this region speak a neutral American English with no regional accent.
 

Online jpanhalt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4005
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2022, 05:44:57 am »
That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?
Try the deep South.  They insert "r's" almost randomly.  My mom pronounced "Eva" as "E ver" (long e) so calm and cam might be pronounced carm and carm, respectively.  She moved in 1945 to LA after he was discharged, but never completely lost that accent.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2022, 06:01:15 am »
Try the deep South.  They insert "r's" almost randomly.  My mom pronounced "Eva" as "E ver" (long e) so calm and cam might be pronounced carm and carm, respectively.  She moved in 1945 to LA after he was discharged, but never completely lost that accent.

That reminds me, my grandmother grew up in Illinois and pronounced Washington "Warshington".
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13157
  • Country: ch
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2022, 09:45:57 am »
Even in American English, there is a pronunciation difference between "calm" and "cam".

That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?
I don’t think so.

“Calm” vs “cahm” is one thing (presence or absence of L, but same vowel), while “cam” has a different vowel.
 
The following users thanked this post: pdenisowski

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13157
  • Country: ch
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2022, 09:56:10 am »
That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?
Try the deep South.  They insert "r's" almost randomly.  My mom pronounced "Eva" as "E ver" (long e) so calm and cam might be pronounced carm and carm, respectively.  She moved in 1945 to LA after he was discharged, but never completely lost that accent.
The “Mary”/“marry”/“merry” convergence isn’t about the R, it’s about the vowel.

Linguistic processes are basically never random. R insertion is common in non-rhotic dialects of English (in USA, that’s just the south and New England, but it’s most of the UK, and in Aus/NZ): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R

The “intrusive R” (like in “Warshington”) in rhotic English is best known in the Midlands (Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, and Missouri) dialect, and the Midatlantic (Maryland, Delaware, Philadelphia) dialect.
 
The following users thanked this post: pdenisowski

Offline pdenisowski

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 930
  • Country: us
  • Product Management Engineer, Rohde & Schwarz
    • Test and Measurement Fundamentals Playlist on the R&S YouTube channel
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2022, 10:46:23 am »
That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?
Try the deep South.

I've lived in the Carolinas almost my entire life and if anything, I would say the difference between "calm" and "cam" is even greater here than in other parts of the United States (due to the "twang", i.e. nasalization, in "cam")
Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 

Offline pdenisowski

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 930
  • Country: us
  • Product Management Engineer, Rohde & Schwarz
    • Test and Measurement Fundamentals Playlist on the R&S YouTube channel
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2022, 10:54:31 am »
Ever since ARM was first founded in the UK I've heard it pronounced "arm". I have never heard anyone say "A.R.M.". Make of that what you will.

Wondering if I should start another thread just to discuss the pronunciation of VSWR  :)   I have always pronounced this as "viz-wahr" but have received ... passionate ... feedback that it should be sounded out letter by letter: V.S.W.R.  I would say at least 90% of my R&S co-workers and customers pronounce this "viz-wahr"

I like to point out that when you say "VSWR" dozens of times a day, those extra 4 syllables start to make a difference:  viz-wahr (2) vs. vee-ess-doub-ble-you-are (6)  :-DD
Test and Measurement Fundamentals video series on the Rohde & Schwarz YouTube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKxVoO5jUTlvsVtDcqrVn0ybqBVlLj2z8
 

Online Circlotron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3362
  • Country: au
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2022, 11:50:08 am »
This thread is putting me to sleep. Gotta catch some zeds.  :=\
 

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10174
  • Country: gb
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2022, 11:56:37 am »
Then there's the 'N' word (as in fission and fusion) which is apparently down to the poor reading and pronunciation skills of certain American Presidents.  :D
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13157
  • Country: ch
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2022, 04:27:56 pm »
Yeah uh. Some people also pronounce ARM "A R M" while others pronounce "arm". I tend to be in the first category although I've heard it pronounced "arm" so often that I'll sometimes use it too. But I find it kinda silly.
What kind of sicko pronounces it “ey are em”? :P

IIRC from an interview with one of the guys who invented it, they pronounced it like the limb.
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13157
  • Country: ch
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2022, 04:30:32 pm »
Then there's the 'N' word (as in fission and fusion) which is apparently down to the poor reading and pronunciation skills of certain American Presidents.  :D
Many people pronounce it “nucular” (which I do not believe to be down to spelling). It is not limited to American presidents, nor just to Americans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucular

The presidential goof that really was shocking was the one who pronounced Bhutan and Nepal as “button” and “nipple”.  :palm:
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 04:34:50 pm by tooki »
 
The following users thanked this post: Gyro

Offline TimFox

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9003
  • Country: us
  • Retired, now restoring antique test equipment
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2022, 04:38:10 pm »
Even in American English, there is a pronunciation difference between "calm" and "cam".

That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?
I don’t think so.

“Calm” vs “cahm” is one thing (presence or absence of L, but same vowel), while “cam” has a different vowel.

Alphabetical spelling is an encoding of pronunciation.
In the original Latin, this encoding was probably efficient (I am not fluent in Latin).
As the Latin alphabet spread to other languages, including non-Romance languages (Germanic, etc.), the encoding became less consistent.
"Calm" vs "cam" is an example of a silent letter used in this encoding to differentiate between two different sounds, neither of which includes the "L" consonant.
 

Online IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12537
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2022, 05:24:09 pm »
I've lived in the Carolinas almost my entire life and if anything, I would say the difference between "calm" and "cam" is even greater here than in other parts of the United States (due to the "twang", i.e. nasalization, in "cam")

Oh. I'm used to hearing Dan pronounced as "Day'en". Are you saying cam would be pronounced like "cay'em"? I suppose that would be right.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 05:52:08 pm by IanB »
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13157
  • Country: ch
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2022, 05:43:28 pm »
Even in American English, there is a pronunciation difference between "calm" and "cam".

That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?
I don’t think so.

“Calm” vs “cahm” is one thing (presence or absence of L, but same vowel), while “cam” has a different vowel.

Alphabetical spelling is an encoding of pronunciation.
In the original Latin, this encoding was probably efficient (I am not fluent in Latin).
As the Latin alphabet spread to other languages, including non-Romance languages (Germanic, etc.), the encoding became less consistent.
"Calm" vs "cam" is an example of a silent letter used in this encoding to differentiate between two different sounds, neither of which includes the "L" consonant.
Alphabetic spelling is an encoding of what we think the pronunciation is, not what it actually is (or ever was). In linguistics, these conceptual speech sounds are called “phonemes”. But in actuality, many phonemes have multiple “allophones”, which are the actual speech sounds created, after application of the pronunciation rules of the language. (For example, English has two different “k” sounds (allophones), but because they occur in mutually exclusive situations, we mentally collapse them down to a single “k” phoneme.)

Alphabetic spelling is based on phonemes at most, so they are not complete guides to pronunciation even in languages often considered to have highly regular spelling, like German.

Anywho, in your original comment about calm, what do you mean by “cam”, then: the things camshafts have multiple of, or the word “calm” with a silent L?

Because the issue is that there are THREE pronunciations to deal with:
Calm with L pronounced
Calm with silent L
Cam
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13157
  • Country: ch
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2022, 05:48:32 pm »
I've lived in the Carolinas almost my entire life and if anything, I would say the difference between "calm" and "cam" is even greater here than in other parts of the United States (due to the "twang", i.e. nasalization, in "cam")

Oh. I'm used hearing Dan pronounced as "Day'en". Are you saying cam would be pronounced like "cay'em"? I suppose that would be right.
Yep. (I lived in NC for 7 years, so I’m well acquainted with their dialects, though my own English made it through largely unscathed! :p)

I remember in third grade, in a spelling test, the teacher spoke the word — “pee’un” — and then realized her own speech has the “pin-pen merger” and blurted out “that’s ‘pee’un’ p-e-n, not ‘pee’un’ p-i-n”, followed a moment later by a facepalm. :P
 

Offline TimFox

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9003
  • Country: us
  • Retired, now restoring antique test equipment
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2022, 06:00:49 pm »
Even in American English, there is a pronunciation difference between "calm" and "cam".

That makes me think of the "Mary", "marry", "merry" convergence, and wonder if there is any part of America where calm and cam sound the same?
I don’t think so.

“Calm” vs “cahm” is one thing (presence or absence of L, but same vowel), while “cam” has a different vowel.

Alphabetical spelling is an encoding of pronunciation.
In the original Latin, this encoding was probably efficient (I am not fluent in Latin).
As the Latin alphabet spread to other languages, including non-Romance languages (Germanic, etc.), the encoding became less consistent.
"Calm" vs "cam" is an example of a silent letter used in this encoding to differentiate between two different sounds, neither of which includes the "L" consonant.
Alphabetic spelling is an encoding of what we think the pronunciation is, not what it actually is (or ever was). In linguistics, these conceptual speech sounds are called “phonemes”. But in actuality, many phonemes have multiple “allophones”, which are the actual speech sounds created, after application of the pronunciation rules of the language. (For example, English has two different “k” sounds (allophones), but because they occur in mutually exclusive situations, we mentally collapse them down to a single “k” phoneme.)

Alphabetic spelling is based on phonemes at most, so they are not complete guides to pronunciation even in languages often considered to have highly regular spelling, like German.

Anywho, in your original comment about calm, what do you mean by “cam”, then: the things camshafts have multiple of, or the word “calm” with a silent L?

Because the issue is that there are THREE pronunciations to deal with:
Calm with L pronounced
Calm with silent L
Cam

I was just commenting on how normal English spelling employs the silent "L" to distinguish between the words "calm" (as in absence of wind) and "cam" (as in camshaft).
Spelling is a code, and is not an efficient coding for phonemes.
For that, you need to use the various "phonetic alphabets", as used in dictionaries to describe pronunciation accurately.
 

Offline Sal Ammoniac

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1764
  • Country: us
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2022, 07:37:58 pm »
Ever since ARM was first founded in the UK I've heard it pronounced "arm". I have never heard anyone say "A.R.M.". Make of that what you will.

I've worked at companies that either use or produce ARM parts for twenty years and I've never heard anyone call it "A.R.M." -- always "arm".
"That's not even wrong" -- Wolfgang Pauli
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Online SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15800
  • Country: fr
Re: Do *you* pronounce the L in SOLDER ? (In the USA?)
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2022, 07:53:59 pm »
Ever since ARM was first founded in the UK I've heard it pronounced "arm". I have never heard anyone say "A.R.M.". Make of that what you will.

I've worked at companies that either use or produce ARM parts for twenty years and I've never heard anyone call it "A.R.M." -- always "arm".

The thread was all about how words are pronounced in various parts of the world, if you noticed. So you'll be surprised how some words can be prounounced differently in different parts of the world, they already are within the same country. All the more for acronyms. In some languages, it is even unusual to pronounce acronyms as nouns. The world is a big place.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf