Author Topic: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?  (Read 5592 times)

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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2019, 11:40:11 pm »
If you print frequently, inkjets are probably fine. I often go weeks or months without printing anything though and when I had an inkjet I remember putting in a new set of cartridges and printing a few pages

then often by the next time I wanted to use it I'd find the thing all dried out and clogged up.



Ha, been down that road a couple of times and the lesson 'twice bitten = sucker'  :-[ cost a couple of seized/dried/clogged/cross contaminated color cartridges
and crusty intermittent performing black cartridges = useless  :horse:

The black ones can be sort of rescued by soaking the bottom sponge/PCB section in warm water, and an alternating clean up/blot routine pressing gently on white tissue paper,
till it 'blots' black and thickish as it should in the printer. Dry the black cartridge and put back in the printer and do a few nozzle cycles till the test prints come out BLACK black  :D
easier to do than it sounds  ??? and works on my Lexmark Z53 printer which I believe was rebadged for other brands too

What I may try next time I need color, is to buy a new color cartridge again  :( get the job done,
then remove and store that cartridge as it came, and put back the dud next to the black (so the printer can operate)

Might have a fighting chance perhaps and save a bundle  :-//

fwiw: when this printer is de-dusted, de-mucked, new cartridges fitted, run with a few clean nozzle/test print cycles,
the prints are as good as it gets and look pro  :clap: 


EDIT: laser printer noob question > can you use jet printer paper on laser printers?
i.e. is it the same stuff?  :-//


« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 11:49:59 pm by Electro Detective »
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2019, 12:12:22 am »
I never owned an inkjet, had to use too many of them at work and knew how much trouble they could be. In 1999 I acquired an HP Laserjet 4p, heavily used but free, from work. It finally wore out and I thought about buying some kind of inkjet, but bought a Brother HL-5250DN instead. The built in networking and duplex printing proved far more useful to me than color. The Brother is one of the best printers I've ever used. I don't even know how old it is, 12, 14 years? It has never jammed and the original cartridge lasted until 2015 and I'll probably never use up the replacement.

I remembered one very similar to that Brother HL-5250DN and it never jammed up and was in use all the time in a IT test room.
Didn't take up any of time and just worked until it ran out of paper or toner.

I have seen a terrible one I came across and I can't remember what model number I think it was a Samsung ML but they were in a number of places and kept on jamming up.

I saw a Samsung colour CLP 300 in 2010 and it had a sticker on it. "The worlds smallest laserjet printer" but it was more like the worlds slowest from what I've seen. The cartridges were small round things £30 to £40 each at the time with 1000 or 2000 page yield.
 

Offline bob91343

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2019, 12:39:27 am »
I have had good results with Brother and Savin laser printers.  My HP 4 quit working.  The old workhorse finally died.  To fix it is too much trouble.  The Savin ran out of toner.  I use the Brother for one-sided printing and have a nice Xerox for duplex.  My daughter has a low end HP color laser so if I need color I can use that; it's on my network.
 

Offline Urs42

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2019, 10:31:11 am »
The solution from someone i know: A shop here had discounted color laser printers on sale. He bought 5 of them, and then removed the toner and ethernet print server from four packages/printers, he kept all the toner, and sold four printers without toner and the print servers on "ebay" of course he did mention the missing toner in the auction. This was many years ago, he is still using the printer he kept.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2019, 03:28:51 pm »
I only buy laserjet now days, the toner lasts for years whether you use it or you don't and it's cheaper per page and you get way more pages per toner.

It's a good thing the toner lasts a while because it costs about $400 to replace all 4 cartridges (HP M277dw with CF40x cartridges)
The cartridge for my black and white HP 2055dn is also $100 but it's the printer I use the most.

And, yes, I use HP cartridges.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 03:57:06 pm by rstofer »
 

Online tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2019, 04:01:03 pm »
EDIT: laser printer noob question > can you use jet printer paper on laser printers?
i.e. is it the same stuff?  :-//
What kind of inkjet paper? If you’re talking about ordinary paper for documents, yes, you can, and it probably says on the package that it can. Coated paper (as in, ordinary paper with a matte clay coating) will work too. But actual glossy photo paper could misbehave. And some specialty photo papers are actually plastic film, and most of those will melt in a laser printer (same as transparency film, where you absolutely must get the kind specifically for laser). Labels also must be expressly laser compatible, so that the adhesives don’t melt in the printer.
 
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Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2019, 04:02:03 pm »
As with many tech products, the price of laser printers, even color laser printers has dropped dramatically. Which narrowed the price/performance gap between inkjet and laser.  In response to this, some manufacturers (notably Epson) have finally been selling inkjet printers with bulk ink delivery (from fixed tanks) vs. those expensive fiddly cartridges. I had retrofitted a bulk delivery kludge onto my inkjet printer decades ago back when I was printing CD and DVD disks. 

It would seem logical that the clogging vs. regular-use would still be an issue.  But the ink used by cleaning cycles would be a lot cheaper?

 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2019, 04:31:25 pm »
That picture reminds me of another thing that drives me nuts out printers, the huge number of "multifunction" printer/scanner combination units on the market. It's gotten so that it's actually difficult to find a good selection of single function printers. I hate those all in one units, they're almost universally built extremely cheaply, they're much bulkier than a printer and they force you to have the printer and scanner in the same location which is almost never optimal. I want my printer on a shelf in an out of the way location, when I want to scan something which is not very often, I get my scanner out of the closet and set it up on the table where I'm working. The multifunction devices also suck when one feature breaks and you have to junk the entire thing.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2019, 01:03:59 pm »
I have heard that argument before in being requested to purchase cheaper compatible or refilled laserjet cartridges.

It was for quality prints that were needed quickly and on demand in bulk.

I warned what might happen but I wasn't believed until there were smudges on the print or the print didn't look good with the new compatible cartridges.
We were sent out others but had the same problem and it was a matter of trying to find better compatibles.

Then they said "so we gotta pay more than what the printer is worth on these four cartridges."

I said you can't always have it both ways.

You want quality and performance on demand and if you want it cheaper we'll just have to find a more toner efficient Laserjet that is just as fast and reliable.

Regular problem, when I was a field tech we had a couple of clients who insisted on using dodgy refill cartridges or knock-offs and then logged print quality calls every week.

I refused to return to one site that were using Xerox cartridges in HP printers and insisting the printers were faulty, it was a simple matter to after demonstrate that a genuine HP cart worked perfectly yet somehow the person in  charge of stationery and printer consumables denied it was the problem.

Another site I spent an hour demonstrating that *every* 'compatible' or refurb cart they had on the shelf had one or more faults.

it got to the point where immediately I had a call for print quality issues and I found a non genuine cartridge, I made the call chargeable.

Back when I was servicing Lexmark laser printers, there was this small family owned chain of pharmacies that kept buying horrible aftermarket cartridges.  They would leak toner like a sieve.  You could hardly see the main drive motor for the toner caked around it.  After the 3rd call, I threatened to contact Lexmark and have their extended warranty voided.  They took me seriously, bought OEM and the number of service calls went way down.

On the flip side, I used to go regularly to Sysco's distribution warehouse in south Florida every 4 weeks to do full maintenance kits on the 6 printers they had working there.  They bought the kits by the pallet-200,000 sheets printed by each of the 6 printers in 4 weeks.  Those printers rarely broke down and they had millions of pages on the clock-all Optra T 620 series printers with extra sheet feeders to hold 5,000 pages each. 

Personally, I have a networked EPSON WF-3540 that is about 3 years old now and a Brother HL-L5100DN duplex networked printer that is a year and a half old.  Love them both and use them both.  We do print more to the Brother, however, I have never had an issue with ink drying out on the EPSON.  Both stay powered up all the time as I never know when we are going to print something.

After 2008 there were so many office class laserprinters available second hand ... hell there's probably still stock from back then left.

I always wanted an HP Laserjet 4000N printer.  I would work on one occasionally at my old job and they weren't bad to service.  Another printer that would just work as long as you did the prescribed maintenance.  I was looking at them on evilBay but I ended up with the Brother because of a really good sale at Office Depot.  I bought it mainly for the the print speed and duplex ability which I use occasionally.

I will say from experience, the small desktop laser printers are a bear to work on.  On the old job, I would have to occasionally repair the Lexmark desktop that Burger King used.  Their warranty was a swap-just replace and send back to Lexmark for refurbishment.  When they would run out of refurbished printers, Lexmark would ship parts and I would sit in the back corner of the Burger King with 2 tables pulled together and rebuild the damn things.  I will not repair my Brother when it dies, my aggravation is worth the cost of a replacement printer.

A couple of years ago, Mrs GreyWoolfe got me to fix the Quest Diagnostics printer at her office ( she works for a doctor) because they had waited 2 weeks for the tech to come and he never showed.  I don't remember the model number but it was even worse than the Lexmarks to service.  Fixed it and did a full maintenance kit on it ( never maintained by Quest) and put it back in service after a couple of days ( had to wait for the kit to come in)  2 days after the printer was back in service, the tech finally showed up.  Mrs GreyWoolfe told him he was too late, husband fixed it.  He started to get bent out of shape that someone touched his precious printer.  She told him that I was servicing computers and printers for over 15 years and he just slunk out of the office.  Point of this is, if you are going to buy a used laser printer, buy a real office class like the HP Laserjet 4000.  Parts are readily available and you can maintain/repair them yourself if they do break.
"Heaven has been described as the place that once you get there all the dogs you ever loved run up to greet you."
 
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Offline Bratster

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2019, 07:01:38 pm »
I picked up HP LaserJet 4000 for free a couple years back. Came with the network card too.

bought a second paper tray for legal size and a duplexer for it, been working great.

Things built like a tank.

The only issue is it's a little slow for non-text only documents and finding the right driver and configuration to make it work with Windows 10 was annoying.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2019, 09:51:54 pm »
Years ago I bought a HP4100DTN for $1 on a closing business. Excellent printer, but I had to let it go for a song - unfortunately SWMBO wouldn't get along with the idea of printing B&W and it was taking valuable space that I needed for other things. It was a sad day...

Despite this, we have been using an HP Officejet 8600 for six years that is really frugal with ink. We came from a thirsty Officejet 6500 that was really expensive to maintain, but it was a good printer. Before that, we had an Epson 820 Photo that clogged quite often, only to be replaced by POS after POS until we landed on the half decent 6500.

My dream printer is a Xerox laser multifunctional we have at the office...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 09:54:40 pm by rsjsouza »
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Offline ogden

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2019, 10:08:55 pm »
For those attacking Inkjets need periodic cleaning: if you need a "backup only" printer, why not a thermal printer like PJ623?

Option to consider indeed. Note that thermal printouts fade and paper is comparably expensive. For occasional use I would just pick lowend laser printer, make sure to get model with aftermarket cartridges available.
 
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Offline KL27x

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2019, 11:03:57 pm »
Yeah. Receipts, counting machine tapes, Mouser/Digikey labels. They are all unreadable after some years.

If you're the one giving out the receipts, no big deal though. That might limit your liability. :)
 

Online tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2019, 06:16:02 pm »
For those attacking Inkjets need periodic cleaning: if you need a "backup only" printer, why not a thermal printer like PJ623? It doesn't use inks, cartridges or drums at all and has nothing to maintain. Just feed it with thermal papers, power and data and it spits out printed paperworks.

Since I never print color, and I print only very seldom (only legal documents for my CPA and government agencies as well as receipts for local customers), I am seriously considering a thermal printer as my next printer as it is smaller, needs zero maintenance and can be battery powered so I can print receipts on customer's site.
Those make sense for portability only. They're very expensive, the paper is expensive, and thermal printouts have poor longevity. (Hence needing to make a laser or inkjet photocopy of a receipt for warranty purposes...)

The only other use for the thermal printers is for printing tattoo stencils, which is quite possibly the largest use of those printers these days.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2019, 08:01:25 pm »
Yeah. Receipts, counting machine tapes, Mouser/Digikey labels. They are all unreadable after some years.

Yes. Awful.
 
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Offline gnavigator1007

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2019, 10:38:01 am »
Worked in a restaurant years ago where clock in and out times were printed on thermal for employees. People often felt their checks were too small and didn't reflect the hours they had worked. I eventually caught one of the owners going back and changing people's time in the system after they would clock out. He abandoned his business partner after being caught but the thermal paper records were useless for calculating back pay owed.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 01:30:48 pm by gnavigator1007 »
 
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Online tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2019, 10:47:12 pm »
Depends on the model. Epson printers from, say, 1998-2005 were notorious for clogging if you didn't print several times a week. On the other hand, my Canons with individual inks have almost never clogged, no matter the interval. (My current one is from 2008, and in the intervening 11 years, I've only had to clean a clogged nozzle once, last year. 2 deep cleaning cycles and it was good. I got a ton of original Canon ink from the local classifieds for next to nothing, so I don't need to worry about ink use any more!)
Speak of the devil, I am running low on some ink colors, and found a classified ad from someone in my neighborhood who had 10 cartridges (original Canon) for $10 for the whole lot, so I went and got them today. Retail is about $19 each.

One advantage of using an old printer is being able to cheaply buy ink from people whose printer died!
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2019, 11:48:06 pm »
Careful, ink cartridges usually have an expiration date. I got burned once when I bought a sealed OEM cartridge for a HP inkjet, it was exactly as described except it was mostly dried up and clogged right out of the package. It was sealed in a foil pouch but apparently they will still dry out eventually.
 

Online tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2019, 09:11:45 am »
Careful, ink cartridges usually have an expiration date. I got burned once when I bought a sealed OEM cartridge for a HP inkjet, it was exactly as described except it was mostly dried up and clogged right out of the package. It was sealed in a foil pouch but apparently they will still dry out eventually.
Yep, with some, like HP, that’s a real issue. (IIRC, some HP printers will even refuse to use a cartridge that has expired!) Luckily, the ones I need (Canon PGI-5 pigment black and CLI-8 dye CcMmYK) don’t even have expiration dates (or even plaintext date codes) printed on them! As blueskull said, that’s thanks to them being pure ink tanks, with a separate (“permanent but replaceable”) print head in the printer.
 

Online tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2019, 09:20:41 am »
As with many tech products, the price of laser printers, even color laser printers has dropped dramatically. Which narrowed the price/performance gap between inkjet and laser.  In response to this, some manufacturers (notably Epson) have finally been selling inkjet printers with bulk ink delivery (from fixed tanks) vs. those expensive fiddly cartridges. I had retrofitted a bulk delivery kludge onto my inkjet printer decades ago back when I was printing CD and DVD disks. 

It would seem logical that the clogging vs. regular-use would still be an issue.  But the ink used by cleaning cycles would be a lot cheaper?


For sure, these make the wasted ink much more insignificant. I think they’ve also just plain gotten better at preventing clogs with head design and ink formulation, and they probably have better-designed head caps and cleaning pumps. (For example, HP at one point introduced pumps that can move the ink backwards, so that an ink clot doesn’t just get pushed deeper into the head, but instead gets reversed back into the ink supply where it can dissolve.)

It’d be interesting to know why Epson had such horrible clogging problems for a while, while Canon never has. Was it head design? Head cap design? Ink supply design? (I know the Epsons are/were sensitive to not allowing a used and removed cartridge to be reinserted, which is totally OK with Canon and HP.) Ink formulation? All of the above?
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2019, 10:31:55 am »
Careful, ink cartridges usually have an expiration date. I got burned once when I bought a sealed OEM cartridge for a HP inkjet, it was exactly as described except it was mostly dried up and clogged right out of the package. It was sealed in a foil pouch but apparently they will still dry out eventually.

HP has the MEMS printing element on the cartridge, not inside the printer. Some other vendors, like Canon, doesn't have this problem. Their ink cartridge is ink-only and the print head is in the printer.

Kinda, on the disposable printers (Deskjet and Most Officejets) the MEMs bit is on the cartridge, on the better ones (Business Inkjet) it's a separate print head and is replaceable on its own.
 
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2019, 10:36:27 am »
I don't bother printing 'Colour' any more, as it is infrequent when we need it.... But mainly because
when we have multiple pages, including photographs/graphics, we just take a USB stick around the
corner to "Office-Works", and it just costs a few CENTS per page!!!

I used to have a B&W Xerox Laser printer that I got from 'Big-W' for $89. I had printed 'shit' loads
of pages for many years!! with the original Toner Cartridge. (Ended up leaving it one of my sons).
I 'have' InkJet' printers, and have re-filled them from refill kits...  But the PROBLEM is that NOW
a lot of the machines use 'smart' electronics within the 'Heads' & Software, to stop them from working
if you try to refill them!!!  I BELIEVE there are MODS one can make to circumvent this, but at present
I have not tried it, & don't know enough about it. 
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Online tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2019, 11:25:06 am »
Careful, ink cartridges usually have an expiration date. I got burned once when I bought a sealed OEM cartridge for a HP inkjet, it was exactly as described except it was mostly dried up and clogged right out of the package. It was sealed in a foil pouch but apparently they will still dry out eventually.

HP has the MEMS printing element on the cartridge, not inside the printer. Some other vendors, like Canon, doesn't have this problem. Their ink cartridge is ink-only and the print head is in the printer.

Kinda, on the disposable printers (Deskjet and Most Officejets) the MEMs bit is on the cartridge, on the better ones (Business Inkjet) it's a separate print head and is replaceable on its own.
Yep. And Canon has a few integrated-printhead style cartridges, too, for its portable and entry level printers. But AFAIK, they still don't have expiration dates, and NOS cartridges seem to work fine, even if ancient.


By the way, technically speaking, neither HP nor Canon print heads are MEMS devices, as they have no moving parts at all, being thermal inkjet. The heads are basically large ICs with thin-film resistors in etched channels, with integrated drive electronics.
 

Online tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2019, 11:40:17 am »
I 'have' InkJet' printers, and have re-filled them from refill kits...  But the PROBLEM is that NOW
a lot of the machines use 'smart' electronics within the 'Heads' & Software, to stop them from working
if you try to refill them!!!  I BELIEVE there are MODS one can make to circumvent this, but at present
I have not tried it, & don't know enough about it.
Let's differentiate into two kinds of inkjet cartridges: ones with integrated print heads (I'll call these print cartridges), and pure ink tanks for printers with permanent print heads.

Print cartridges began locking out refills earlier, both because these tended to be in cheaper printers (which were thus more heavily subsidized by expensive ink), but also because they already had electronics in them anyway, so adding a little EPROM to store the ink level and stop refilling was trivial.

Ink tanks didn't start to have chips until the mid-late '00s. Some, like Epson, are strict about enforcing it. Others, like Canon, have been more lenient, letting you override the warning (but potentially voiding your warranty in countries that don't expressly prohibit this).

For both of these, there are "chip resetter" devices you can buy, which talk to the existing chip and set it back to zero (and in some, like HP, reset the expiration date and clear the serial number of the first printer it was used in). There are also vendors of replacement chips for ink tanks, where I guess you pry off the old chip and put a new one on. Which options are available depend on the cartridge model.


The trend now in higher end models is towards bulk ink, much like what most large-format inkjets have used for ages. But since the printer manufacturer is not subsidizing the printer cost with ink cartridges, you're paying quite a bit more for the printer up-front. (You're paying its true cost, in essence.) In these, the ink just comes in bottles that you empty into the reservoirs in the printer. There's a picture of an example of this earlier in this thread.




P.S. Please don't insert line breaks manually. This screws up the display on things like phones. Just type your text and let it flow naturally, using line breaks only to separate paragraphs.
 
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Offline Miyuki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2019, 02:51:42 pm »
I use old bw laser Konica Minolta copy/printer and have bottle of universal toner what cost almost nothing
I dont need a color text
and if I want photos I go to photo lab

Inkjet printers are terrible unreliable if they are let sit for long time (months) without use, laser is much more reliable in this way
 


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