Author Topic: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?  (Read 2255 times)

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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2019, 08:36:27 pm »
I don't bother printing 'Colour' any more, as it is infrequent when we need it.... But mainly because
when we have multiple pages, including photographs/graphics, we just take a USB stick around the
corner to "Office-Works", and it just costs a few CENTS per page!!!

I used to have a B&W Xerox Laser printer that I got from 'Big-W' for $89. I had printed 'shit' loads
of pages for many years!! with the original Toner Cartridge. (Ended up leaving it one of my sons).
I 'have' InkJet' printers, and have re-filled them from refill kits...  But the PROBLEM is that NOW
a lot of the machines use 'smart' electronics within the 'Heads' & Software, to stop them from working
if you try to refill them!!!  I BELIEVE there are MODS one can make to circumvent this, but at present
I have not tried it, & don't know enough about it. 
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2019, 09:25:06 pm »
Careful, ink cartridges usually have an expiration date. I got burned once when I bought a sealed OEM cartridge for a HP inkjet, it was exactly as described except it was mostly dried up and clogged right out of the package. It was sealed in a foil pouch but apparently they will still dry out eventually.

HP has the MEMS printing element on the cartridge, not inside the printer. Some other vendors, like Canon, doesn't have this problem. Their ink cartridge is ink-only and the print head is in the printer.

Kinda, on the disposable printers (Deskjet and Most Officejets) the MEMs bit is on the cartridge, on the better ones (Business Inkjet) it's a separate print head and is replaceable on its own.
Yep. And Canon has a few integrated-printhead style cartridges, too, for its portable and entry level printers. But AFAIK, they still don't have expiration dates, and NOS cartridges seem to work fine, even if ancient.


By the way, technically speaking, neither HP nor Canon print heads are MEMS devices, as they have no moving parts at all, being thermal inkjet. The heads are basically large ICs with thin-film resistors in etched channels, with integrated drive electronics.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2019, 09:40:17 pm »
I 'have' InkJet' printers, and have re-filled them from refill kits...  But the PROBLEM is that NOW
a lot of the machines use 'smart' electronics within the 'Heads' & Software, to stop them from working
if you try to refill them!!!  I BELIEVE there are MODS one can make to circumvent this, but at present
I have not tried it, & don't know enough about it.
Let's differentiate into two kinds of inkjet cartridges: ones with integrated print heads (I'll call these print cartridges), and pure ink tanks for printers with permanent print heads.

Print cartridges began locking out refills earlier, both because these tended to be in cheaper printers (which were thus more heavily subsidized by expensive ink), but also because they already had electronics in them anyway, so adding a little EPROM to store the ink level and stop refilling was trivial.

Ink tanks didn't start to have chips until the mid-late '00s. Some, like Epson, are strict about enforcing it. Others, like Canon, have been more lenient, letting you override the warning (but potentially voiding your warranty in countries that don't expressly prohibit this).

For both of these, there are "chip resetter" devices you can buy, which talk to the existing chip and set it back to zero (and in some, like HP, reset the expiration date and clear the serial number of the first printer it was used in). There are also vendors of replacement chips for ink tanks, where I guess you pry off the old chip and put a new one on. Which options are available depend on the cartridge model.


The trend now in higher end models is towards bulk ink, much like what most large-format inkjets have used for ages. But since the printer manufacturer is not subsidizing the printer cost with ink cartridges, you're paying quite a bit more for the printer up-front. (You're paying its true cost, in essence.) In these, the ink just comes in bottles that you empty into the reservoirs in the printer. There's a picture of an example of this earlier in this thread.




P.S. Please don't insert line breaks manually. This screws up the display on things like phones. Just type your text and let it flow naturally, using line breaks only to separate paragraphs.
 
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Offline Miyuki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2019, 12:51:42 am »
I use old bw laser Konica Minolta copy/printer and have bottle of universal toner what cost almost nothing
I dont need a color text
and if I want photos I go to photo lab

Inkjet printers are terrible unreliable if they are let sit for long time (months) without use, laser is much more reliable in this way
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2019, 01:14:17 am »

By the way, technically speaking, neither HP nor Canon print heads are MEMS devices, as they have no moving parts at all, being thermal inkjet. The heads are basically large ICs with thin-film resistors in etched channels, with integrated drive electronics.

No, I know, not really sure why I used that term other than Blueskull used it...

The drive electronics are interesting on the HP carts, there's been some work done on reverse engineering them to allow anyone to use the cartridges, there are printers for printing on coffee foam which use HP cartridges (filled with edible inks of course) and others for printing on cake icing for example.

I quite like the idea of a custom printer but could never think of a use for one that would make the effort worth it.
M0UAW
 

Offline krayvonk

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2019, 08:29:14 am »
if you get a conductive ink cartridge for a quarter of the price of the printer, it seems like a ripoff,  but an ounce or so of copper is actually quite expensive.   I was thinking the same, but actually its not shy off it for conductive ink.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2019, 06:50:55 am »

By the way, technically speaking, neither HP nor Canon print heads are MEMS devices, as they have no moving parts at all, being thermal inkjet. The heads are basically large ICs with thin-film resistors in etched channels, with integrated drive electronics.

No, I know, not really sure why I used that term other than Blueskull used it...
Ooops, I didn't mean to single you out!!


The drive electronics are interesting on the HP carts, there's been some work done on reverse engineering them to allow anyone to use the cartridges, there are printers for printing on coffee foam which use HP cartridges (filled with edible inks of course) and others for printing on cake icing for example.
HP and Epson (and a few other companies with no consumer products) sell OEM print heads and print engines. So almost certainly they were not reverse engineered, but rather made with engineering support from HP. If it's a big enough market, they'll help engineer the custom ink formulation and make the cartridges filled with it.

For example, if you buy a box of pills, these days the expiration date is often inkjet printed onto the box and bottle, and each of those would be done with a specific, different type of inkjet printer and ink. The dates and lot codes on soda bottles are also inkjet, again a different type of ink and printer. The markings on ethernet cable are practically always inkjet, too, and again it'll be a different formulation to work on that substrate. But what it won't be is a consumer inkjet head reverse-engineered behind the manufacturer's back. (I'm sure that happens for niche/one-off applications, but any significant ones will be done with properly OEMed components.)
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2019, 05:41:12 pm »

By the way, technically speaking, neither HP nor Canon print heads are MEMS devices, as they have no moving parts at all, being thermal inkjet. The heads are basically large ICs with thin-film resistors in etched channels, with integrated drive electronics.

No, I know, not really sure why I used that term other than Blueskull used it...
Ooops, I didn't mean to single you out!!


The drive electronics are interesting on the HP carts, there's been some work done on reverse engineering them to allow anyone to use the cartridges, there are printers for printing on coffee foam which use HP cartridges (filled with edible inks of course) and others for printing on cake icing for example.
HP and Epson (and a few other companies with no consumer products) sell OEM print heads and print engines. So almost certainly they were not reverse engineered, but rather made with engineering support from HP. If it's a big enough market, they'll help engineer the custom ink formulation and make the cartridges filled with it.

For example, if you buy a box of pills, these days the expiration date is often inkjet printed onto the box and bottle, and each of those would be done with a specific, different type of inkjet printer and ink. The dates and lot codes on soda bottles are also inkjet, again a different type of ink and printer. The markings on ethernet cable are practically always inkjet, too, and again it'll be a different formulation to work on that substrate. But what it won't be is a consumer inkjet head reverse-engineered behind the manufacturer's back. (I'm sure that happens for niche/one-off applications, but any significant ones will be done with properly OEMed components.)

Yes, I know, all of that.

There's also been work done on reverse engineering them for hobbyist applications, the Inkshield for Arduino is one example and I'm sure I've seen a few others too.
M0UAW
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2019, 07:35:11 pm »
Is anyone really that stupid that they would buy a new ink jet printer every time the ink runs out?
 

Offline legacy

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2019, 08:02:39 pm »
I am using a needles printer with a serial RS232 interface.
I can regenerate the cartridge by adding blank ink.
it's a bit dumb because it doesn't understand anything except pure ASCII,
which is what I need to print lists of code.

It has been working since 1992 when I purchased it.

What I really need is to buy continuous ribbon paper  :-//

and it's so hard to find that I am importing it from Russia.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2019, 08:20:06 pm »
Before the manufacturers changed the included cartridges to "starter" versions, buying a whole new printer was sometimes a better deal if you could find a printer at a good price and your existing printer was way low on ink.


Is anyone really that stupid that they would buy a new ink jet printer every time the ink runs out?
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2019, 08:54:19 pm »
Is anyone really that stupid that they would buy a new ink jet printer every time the ink runs out?

I'd hope not these days as many come with 'demo' cartridges that are only good for a few pages, but it used to be possible to buy Apollo printers that were rebranded HP machines, they were, at one point, £14 but came with a genuine HP colour cart and a genuine black cart which retailed at over £50 for the pair, so yes, people, inlcuding me, bought printers when the ink ran out.
M0UAW
 
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2019, 09:08:46 pm »
Is anyone really that stupid that they would buy a new ink jet printer every time the ink runs out?

I did, once!, when the whole Canon Pixma MG2460 Printer/Scanner was available NEW for $24  ;D
Now a spare for the 'missus' to use.  Very few pages needed for printing each month....
NOTE:  The cartridge injection refills seem to work with these, even though the 'software' complains...
And thank you again to 'tooki' who informed me about "chip-resetter" options...   :-+

 

Offline tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2019, 10:51:02 pm »
I am using a needles printer with a serial RS232 interface.
I can regenerate the cartridge by adding blank ink.
it's a bit dumb because it doesn't understand anything except pure ASCII,
which is what I need to print lists of code.

It has been working since 1992 when I purchased it.

What I really need is to buy continuous ribbon paper  :-//

and it's so hard to find that I am importing it from Russia.
FYI, that’s called a “dot matrix printer” in English, we don’t use the phrase “needle printer” at all

As for the paper, you must not have looked very hard. It’s readily available from multiple vendors: https://www.google.com/search?q=site:.ch+endlospapier
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2019, 03:05:08 am »
By one of these color LED laser printers and never touch ink again in your life.

https://www.amazon.com/Brother-HL-L3210CW-Providing-Wireless-Replenishment/dp/B07FMS1DMX/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=HL-L3230CDW&qid=1562950810&s=gateway&sr=8-2&th=1

Note that you can reset each toner level counter within the printers menu so you may print up until the toner is completely dry, and continue to print even is you are completely missing a color toner.
Only replace with original Brother toner, otherwise you will permanently fuck the printer with blobs and spots on every print.

A toner refill lasts over 8k-15k pages depending on what you place on each page.  TRY THAT WITH PAINT!!!

Also, for printing electronics schematics and PCB, no bloody smudging when you use a highlighter of marker to draft corrections on each print.

Also, there is a model above which prints on both sides...

Ohh, and, never a cleaning cycle of loose ink ever again.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 03:37:49 am by BrianHG »
__________
BrianHG.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2019, 03:17:20 am »
While it's not a term you'd ever hear in English, I quite like "needle printer", it makes sense, I knew exactly what he was talking about even though it's not the correct term. Technically almost any printer could be described as "dot matrix", it's only relative to the old daisy wheel and other character based printers that the term dot matrix makes sense.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2019, 03:29:04 am »
In portuguese the term "impressora de agulhas" (needle printer) was also used on occasion, along with the more common terms "impressora matricial" (matrix printer) and "impressora de fita" (tape printer). This was in contrast with, as you said, daisy wheel and with the ultra fast line printers at the time.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2019, 04:24:25 am »
While it's not a term you'd ever hear in English, I quite like "needle printer", it makes sense, I knew exactly what he was talking about even though it's not the correct term. Technically almost any printer could be described as "dot matrix", it's only relative to the old daisy wheel and other character based printers that the term dot matrix makes sense.

One of the very few occasions where a German term is more succinct than its English equivalent!  ;)
 
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Online blueskull

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2019, 10:29:56 am »
While it's not a term you'd ever hear in English, I quite like "needle printer", it makes sense, I knew exactly what he was talking about even though it's not the correct term. Technically almost any printer could be described as "dot matrix", it's only relative to the old daisy wheel and other character based printers that the term dot matrix makes sense.

It's called needle printer in China as well.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2019, 06:21:23 pm »
It's called needle printer in China as well.

In portuguese the term "impressora de agulhas" (needle printer) was also used on occasion, along with the more common terms "impressora matricial" (matrix printer) and "impressora de fita" (tape printer). This was in contrast with, as you said, daisy wheel and with the ultra fast line printers at the time.

While it's not a term you'd ever hear in English, I quite like "needle printer", it makes sense, I knew exactly what he was talking about even though it's not the correct term. Technically almost any printer could be described as "dot matrix", it's only relative to the old daisy wheel and other character based printers that the term dot matrix makes sense.
Oh, absolutely! It's a terribly imprecise term, whose narrow definition is strictly because of historical usage, not technical precision! (Just like "RAM" for... active working memory vs. ROM for read-only memory, both of which have supported random access in nearly every implementation other than tape! (And extremely obsolete things like memory delay line memory.)

One of the very few occasions where a German term is more succinct than its English equivalent!  ;)
Oh, German often has some great terms!

RAM is another one: Arbeitsspeicher ('working memory') is a much better term than RAM. Blueskull, what was it you said that RAM was called in Chinese? You mentioned it in another thread, and I thought it was also an excellent term.

A contrasting pair that I think German handles very elegantly is the words Denkmal and Mahnmal for 'memorial'. For the non-German speakers, the first one is a memorial for people or things you want to remember positively (like a memorial to veterans, or to a deceased leader, etc., whereas the latter is a memorial to something bad, as a warning. So for example, the Washington Memorial in DC would be a Denkmal, while the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin is a Mahnmal.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2019, 11:39:17 pm »
Arbeitsspeicher ('working memory') is a much better term than RAM.

From today's perspective, "Arbeitsspeicher" may indeed be more descriptive. But "random access memory" must have made a lot of sense when the term was introduced:

The introduction of (ferrite core) RAM followed a generation of computers in the 1940s and 1950s which used ultrasonic delay lines and magnetic drums as their working memories -- i.e. which did not have random memory access. Compared to the slow access and the hassle of program optimization for these sequential memories, "random acess" memory must have been a revelation, and certainly deserved a name of its own!
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2019, 07:52:22 am »
For sure! I alluded to that earlier in my reply. ;)
 

Offline macboy

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Re: Do people buy ink or replace printer ?
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2019, 03:44:31 am »
I had a Brother printer (multifunction) that served me well for a few years. I had refilled the ink tanks several times, never buying OEM inks. That printer used optical detection to determine when the ink was nearly out rather than chipped cartridges. When the nozzles finally permanently clogged I had to replace the printer.

I bought an HP. It was another multi-function (print/scan/fax), bought on sale for next to nothing. It was "instant ink ready" so I signed up. I don't print much, so I chose the free option, which is only 15 pages (any size or amount of coverage) free per month, and $1.25 per 10 pages after that. I have paid a couple times, only $2.50 total ink expenditure since buying the printer. They'll be sending me a third set of (free) cartridges soon, as the levels are running low again. Part of the 'deal' on the free instant ink subscription is that they may print up to one ad per 10 pages that you print. I've never had an ad printed. Despite the fact that this is a simple office printer and not a photo printer, the photo quality is very good, especially on glossy paper. I calibrated it with my Colormunki, and it is a definite improvement, but even the factory default calibration was fine when used with decent paper. So far the Instant Ink thing works great for me and I'll never need to throw away a printer due to clogged print heads, as the heads are integrated into the ink cartridge.

I also keep a laser printer for most mundane B&W print jobs.
 


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