Author Topic: Do you guys have GAS or you buy only the gear you really need for your job?  (Read 4924 times)

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Offline ercapocciaTopic starter

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I really want the DMM6500, it has been sitting on the cart with a nice probe master kit for few weeks, i could not find yet a valid reason to justify the purchase with myself.
I'd buy for my professional repair lab, that is about 10/20% of my company income but it would be really an overkill for my needs, i'd just like to play around with it. :o |O

I try to invest every year part of the revenue to buy new gear, last year i got a not too expensive AC/DC tig welder with few accessories. This year i was looking at a bench DMM.

How do you guys manage the budget for buying new equipment?
 

Offline edy

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I would look at your return on investment. There is a video by Louis Rossmann who fixes iPhones, iMacs and other tech gear and he said it cost him a bundle for an ultrasonic cleaner, but it made him back the money multiple times over. At the time he was living in a crappy apartment and barely making any money, but it was one of the best investments he ever made.

Here is the video... it should start at the right time, but if not, fast forward to 5:33....

https://youtu.be/_LIz3pGYWek?t=333



You need to ask yourself if that particular piece of equipment is the best value proposition and will allow you to jump to the next level of work/experience or help you tackle more difficult jobs and ultimately make you more money. If I'm a carpenter and I blow through $20 hammers ever week (and risk injuring myself, others, or being inefficient)... maybe I should splurge for a $200 hammer that will last me a year and work flawlessly the entire time?
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Offline ercapocciaTopic starter

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Thank you, i know Louis very well and i usually have the same mind set about equipment. I'm always very careful on what i buy.
In this case the answer is probably not, it won't give me any real benefit right now, maybe in the future who knows. That's why i'm asking.
 

Offline jogri

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Get yourself the cheapest tool that can do the job reasonably well, if you manage to break it or reach the limits of what it can do repeatedly get yourself the high-end version.

In the case of your 6500: Why exactly do you need this device? Do you frequently need to view the data without a PC/laptop/tablet nearby? Probably not if you are working in a lab.

(The "cheapest tool" in your case would probably be something like a used 34401A if you need 6.5 digits (do you really need it, 4.5 and 5.5 digit meters are way cheaper?) or a 34970A if you need a good datalogger [~500 bucks incl. cards and way more usefull than a normal DMM].)

Before you buy anything expensive, make a list of when you absolutely need feature X that only the expensive product has and think about how to work around this, while keeping in mind how much time your workaround will cost you (how often do you have to use it before the cost of additional working hours outweights the initial saving?)
 

Offline ercapocciaTopic starter

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Those are very good suggestions, i agree that this is how business should be done and it is how (almost) always select what to buy.

What i'm really curious to know is if you guys always follow those wisdom rules.
Do you never get any tool just because it's cool?

My work is also one of my hobby, i love what i do and i'm always trying to improve. Playing with a new shiny toy would give me the opportunity to learn new things.
It always worked for me in the past.

I do need a second multimeter, and the best choice for me would be to get another Brymen 869s or maybe a Vici 8145 just to try something new.
The DMM6500 is 4x the brymen and it will give me only marginal benefit in my work flow but i'd be lots of fun.
Anyway the expense in the scheme of things it is not extreme, it's probably what i make when i work full time in the weekend.
 

Offline Zucca

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Ciao capoccia,

resistence is futile. Let the dark side embrace you, it is not soo bad.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/
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Offline daqq

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Quote
What i'm really curious to know is if you guys always follow those wisdom rules.
Do you never get any tool just because it's cool?
Sure I do. Never new, but I have a few keywords that I look for in the local electronic fleamarket webpages. Over the years this gained me:

3458A
34401A
6632B
E7495A
waveJet 314
and a lot of miscellany, lesser items

Every piece was no where near the cost of a new one. I lucked out on the 3458A in particular - it was an insane bargain and when I told a friend the price he glared daggers at me.
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Offline Berni

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If you really want one, then what the hell go for it. (There is lots of WAY more expensive test gear out there)

But if you want to save money you can still get a used 6.5 digit bench DMM for about 300 to 400 bucks. Out of the too many multimeters i own my favorite one is the Keithley 2015. It might not look as impressive but it sure gets the job done while being a joy to use.

In my opinion every decent well equipped electronics lab should have a trustable 6.5 digit DMM around. It gives you the confidence in your most important measurements and can be used to calibrate any other cheep DMMs laying around, giving them some of that measurement confidence or identifying crappy ones that need to be tossed out.
 

Offline Brumby

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Get yourself the cheapest tool that can do the job reasonably well, if you manage to break it or reach the limits of what it can do repeatedly get yourself the high-end version.

This is what I tend to do when approaching unknowns for a need that feels like it should be satisfied.

An off-topic example is router bits.  Some years ago, I was getting into this aspect of woodworking and came across a hardware store that was clearing out its router bits, so I grabbed a decent selection of tungsten carbide ones.  They weren't the top of the range to begin with, but the price was a bargain.  Over time, I started using some more than others and it soon became clear which ones I would need to replace and exactly what differences I would go for (such as longer cutter).  I then ponied up for the purchase of a decent brand.  As of now, I still have the original bits - but a couple of them are well beyond serviceable.  Some of them I am still using for that odd job and a couple have hardly been used at all and are pretty much as good as the day I got them. Half a dozen of my most used bits are new purchases at non-bargain (but fair) prices - and are better suited due to the previous experience.  I have even designed a custom bit profile and had a couple made to take 3 steps and turn them into 1.

In short, don't be afraid to step into the unknown as long as you have a reasonable view of the path you will likely take.  That path is learning and experience - which is always paved with an education of what falls short.  Don't be afraid of making mistakes - just try and make them ones you can handle.
 

Offline KL27x

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"Your job" is repetitive for 99% of us. This is where I buy nice stuff if I think it will make this go faster or easier. But esp in the electronics world, we need a lot of "stupid" stuff, already. So if it only gets used once a year, and it can be done with more basic/essential tools (like elbow grease plus an old toothbrush), then this nice gear is really just junk destined for the garbage bin or the back of a closet to be forgotten forever.
 

Offline ercapocciaTopic starter

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In my experience i never regret the purchase of a good quality tool, but i can't say the same for some cheap tool that i had to buy again.
The struggling with crappy gears is too annoying for my taste.

off-topic
How many of you have a DMMCheck Plus or equivalent?
I have some cheap reference LCR and Voltage from china a couple of vishay 0,005% resistors and the lm399ah 10v reference from circuitvalley
 

Offline EEVblog

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I really want the DMM6500, it has been sitting on the cart with a nice probe master kit for few weeks, i could not find yet a valid reason to justify the purchase with myself.
I'd buy for my professional repair lab, that is about 10/20% of my company income but it would be really an overkill for my needs, i'd just like to play around with it. :o |O

You've come to the right place for group therapy  ;D

You don't need an expensive bench meter for a repair lab. An old 2nd hand 34401 will only cost a few hundred.
This seller in China has 30 of them for $260 each.
https://www.facebook.com/sherry.li.313371
 

Offline EEVblog

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What i'm really curious to know is if you guys always follow those wisdom rules.
Do you never get any tool just because it's cool?

Anyone here who says no is lying  ;D
 

Offline EEVblog

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Also:
 

Offline ercapocciaTopic starter

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Thanks Dave for your input, i'll check it out.

Buying a €860 meter from Germany would cost me (my company) actually around €520.

I'm not really sure about reverse charge from China, but here in Italy buying used gear make sense only from a professional seller that give you a valid Invoice.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 08:10:15 pm by ercapoccia »
 

Offline SilverSolder

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[...]
Do you never get any tool just because it's cool?
[...]

Of course.  Cool tools are similar to purchasing a motorcycle or a musclecar or any other "boy toy",  things keep us mentally healthy and alive, maintain testosterone levels, etc.
 

Offline tggzzz

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off-topic
How many of you have a DMMCheck Plus or equivalent?
I have some cheap reference LCR and Voltage from china a couple of vishay 0,005% resistors and the lm399ah 10v reference from circuitvalley

That's on topic :)

I have three well-aged Trancell/Cropico zener-based references, a Fluke 515A, and some vintage saturated Weston Cells, plus a 7 decade KVD.

I have some Guildline and similar 4-terminal reference resistors, and some reference capacitors.

All were bought relatively cheaply - patience is a virtue :)
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Offline Mr. Scram

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To be fair, a DMM with a large screen and the ability to plot and do other things can be a real time saver. Seeing a trend can be invaluable. I remember the first time I used one I was thinking that this was going to change a lot. You can work without but especially in a professional setting convenience and time saved is money earned.
 

Offline jogri

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That's why i recommended the 34970A/34972A (basically a 34401A with a multiplexer): You can get a used one for half the price of the 6500, if you connect it to a PC and use its data logger program you basically get the "novel" features of the 6500 for half the price (minus the touchscreen of course)... Plus, having more than one channel for measurements can be really nice (i use mine to measure a few voltages+current simultaneously).

The only minor problem i have with my unit is the fact that it can only measure currents up to 1A directly, but luckily current shunts are a thing.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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That's why i recommended the 34970A/34972A (basically a 34401A with a multiplexer): You can get a used one for half the price of the 6500, if you connect it to a PC and use its data logger program you basically get the "novel" features of the 6500 for half the price (minus the touchscreen of course)... Plus, having more than one channel for measurements can be really nice (i use mine to measure a few voltages+current simultaneously).

The only minor problem i have with my unit is the fact that it can only measure currents up to 1A directly, but luckily current shunts are a thing.
With a scan card the K2000 and DMM6500 can multiplex too. The DMM6500 can more easily do more complicated setups because it can be programmed on a computer or the device itself. Most other DMMs can more or less replicate a similar setup but convenience and expediency are a factor. I've rolled my own code but it's usually a more significant investment than I'd like so just poking at a screen for a few minutes and getting similar results is an advantage. The massive dynamic range is nice too.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 05:17:55 pm by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline ercapocciaTopic starter

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If i buy an used 34401 i imagine i'd need to send it for calibration just to be sure it is still accurate. I have no other high end gear to compare it with.
But adding the price of a calibration to the cost of the meter it would be almost as expensive as a new meter that came already calibrated.
Am I missing something?
 

Offline jogri

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If i buy an used 34401 i imagine i'd need to send it for calibration just to be sure it is still accurate. I have no other high end gear to compare it with.
But adding the price of a calibration to the cost of the meter it would be almost as expensive as a new meter that came already calibrated.
Am I missing something?

Where did you get the prices for the calibration? It shouldn't cost more than 100-150 bucks to have it calibrated (with a cal certificate), and that's if you include the cost of shipping it.
This company has been recommended to me by others on the forum when i wanted to calibrate my 34401/34970 (lost its cal data and the readings were ~2% off), but i don't know if they'll ship your DMM to italy:
https://www.calibrate.co.uk/calibration/electrical/

Edit: Or just ask on this forum if you don't need a calibration certificate, quite a few guys seem to be in the business of collecting old Datron/Fluke 5000 series calibrators... (Another item that i absolutely "need" on my desk)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 08:58:49 pm by jogri »
 

Offline ercapocciaTopic starter

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From what i read a calibration would be around €150/€200 and a 34401 €250/€400 shipped that means from €400 to €600 for a used 34401 calibrated and shipped to my door. A brand new DMM6500 is €855 shipped.
Maybe it is not almost the same price but it is not super cheap either. Buying used also means more time to spend searching and waiting for the shippings.
If it was € 250 calibrated and shipped i'd be a no brainier.
I'm totally new to this kind of equipment and i don't know the market.
 

Offline iteratee

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How many of you have a DMMCheck Plus or equivalent?
I have some cheap reference LCR and Voltage from china a couple of vishay 0,005% resistors and the lm399ah 10v reference from circuitvalley
I had a look at it but don't feel the need for a calibration multitool. The voltage standard is key because that's where drift is unavoidable. I bought Doug's tighter tolerence LT1021-based Vref10 instead as a transfer standard and just built a few extras on perfboard matched to the reference and leave em all running for drift comparison. I can bodge some other solution for frequency and resistance calibration if needed.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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How many of you have a DMMCheck Plus or equivalent?
I have some cheap reference LCR and Voltage from china a couple of vishay 0,005% resistors and the lm399ah 10v reference from circuitvalley
I had a look at it but don't feel the need for a calibration multitool. The voltage standard is key because that's where drift is unavoidable. I bought Doug's tighter tolerence LT1021-based Vref10 instead as a transfer standard and just built a few extras on perfboard matched to the reference and leave em all running for drift comparison. I can bodge some other solution for frequency and resistance calibration if needed.

I have the Doug Malone Vref10 as well, used as a transfer standard to a number of local references.  An excellent and economical solution for maintaining confidence in your DMMs.
 


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