Poll

Do you hate blue resistors?

Yes, I hate them, bring back the brown ones
No, I love them

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Offline exe

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2020, 07:37:32 am »
Where's the power? 0402 good for 63mW. I can't work with little pepper flakes, too small for my eyes and the slightest bump sends them flying.
It's weird one consumer product drives the entire electronics industry towards the smallest parts, to the extinction of engineers being able to prototype something. In that sense, blue resistors are awesome.

I think so far there is a wide range of components available on the market: from beefy current shunts, to parts less than 0201. I use all of them (I mean both th and smd), TH for breadboarding and when I have to dissipate a lot of heat (hello to-220 and to-247), and 0603 when I have a pcb and I want to save some board space. I used to use 0805, but they are "too big" :).           

In my next project I'll try using 0402. I already have experience soldering them with a naked eye (on training smd boards). With a bit of practice it was actually not hard at all. But I wouldn't go smaller, at least not now.

I also have 0204 capacitors (reverse geometry), which I thought would be a great idea for bypassing digital circuits. But looking at the size of their pads, I'm not sure I'll manage. They are too tiny for me, and it looks like they are easy to short with excessive solder. So, probably, I'll use 0306.

I want to buy this kit, but it's not available: https://www.tindie.com/products/MakersBox/smd-challenge/ . May be I should just make my own version...

My advise for people who are afraid of smd because of the size: it's much easier than it looks, up to 0603 requires no special skills. 0402 a bit trickier, I suggest practice on an "smd training kit" before working with them on actual equipment.

PS smd tweezers are awesome. Can be used both for measurements and for placing if working with a stencil.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2020, 10:45:29 am »
Where's the power? 0402 good for 63mW. I can't work with little pepper flakes, too small for my eyes and the slightest bump sends them flying.
Not only power but voltage as well. Slap an 0402 at the high voltage part of your power supply, immerse it in a humid environment for a few months/years and watch sparks fly. You can't beat physics.

My advise for people who are afraid of smd because of the size: it's much easier than it looks, up to 0603 requires no special skills. 0402 a bit trickier, I suggest practice on an "smd training kit" before working with them on actual equipment.

PS smd tweezers are awesome. Can be used both for measurements and for placing if working with a stencil.
I agree on the SMD training kit - these are very useful but could be replaced by old boards on a pinch.

But no special skills?!? The physical tolerances and marging for error are much narrower, requiring not only a feather touch hand but quite a few aids to help with the process, such as a loupe/microscope (stereo is even better), a fine pitch solder and soldering iron, spare flux and wick/braid for the occasional removal/resoldering of a part, kapton tape or other way to hold a QFP part in place...

You can solder a through hole part with a "fire stick" soldering iron featuring a 5mm tip half eaten by continuous use, filing it along the way to remove crud that accumulates as you go, whatever remnants of solder you have around and with a much heavier hand and a pair of reading glasses if you are aging. Some friends even used a clothes iron for the lack of a better thing available in an emergency.

Several years ago I have transitioned to 1206 and 0805 and, even when my eyesight was good, I still needed the optical amplification (loupe, stereo microscope) to be sure the job was well done (no solder blobs or shorts, proper positioning and alignment of parts). For the past year or so demand required me to move to 0402 parts and I can tell no special skills are required for this when compared to the 1206/0805, just a much lighter touch of hand.
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Offline exe

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2020, 11:16:39 am »
But no special skills?!? The physical tolerances and marging for error are much narrower, requiring not only a feather touch hand but quite a few aids to help with the process, such as a loupe/microscope (stereo is even better), a fine pitch solder and soldering iron, spare flux and wick/braid for the occasional removal/resoldering of a part, kapton tape or other way to hold a QFP part in place...

Ah, I took this for granted  ;D . Also a hotair gun... The tool I really miss at times when dealing with lead-free is a bottom heater (though I woudn't say this is specific to smd, as I had troubles desoldering a TH-cap from a motherboard due to power planes). Also hooking test leads is a problem for me. Micrograbbers are expensive. I also have a spring-loaded needle-like probes, but I didn't manage to use them on 0.65mm tqfp, it's too easy to fall off (and short something).

I usually don't use a tape to keep parts in place, tacky flux help with this. But that's my personal preference.

My message was more like "embrace the fear". I was terrified by smd for many years, until just accepted it. Now I love it more than TH. It actually makes many things easier and faster (if the pcb is ready). Just put it on the board and bake it :).

My fears now are BGA, fine-pitched components, components smaller than 0402, and highly-integrated ICs with many legs, power sequencing, impedance matching, etc. I haven't dealt with them yet, but one day may time will come...
 
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Online Mortymore

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2020, 11:31:31 am »
I can't read the color strips over the blue. I ALWAYS have to measure them.   :rant:
I rarely have to do the same in tan ones.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2020, 12:48:23 pm »
My advise for people who are afraid of smd because of the size:

I'm not afraid of SMD because of the size, I don't use them because almost everything I make is a one-off or in small quantities so drawing a proper PCB, ordering it, waiting for it to arrive, etc., is a non-starter.

On the odd occasion when I do make a PCB I use through-hole because that's the parts I have in the drawer from the prototyping. If I used SMD on the board I'd have to order a bunch of duplicate SMD parts, too, so...  :-//

If you're producing en-masse or if somebody's paying you to sit in an office and prototype stuff then sure, SMD all the way.

What are these odd things with leads, anyway? Have we travelled back in time to the 1980s?

They're alive and well around here.  :-+
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2020, 01:05:56 pm »
My fears now are ... components smaller than 0402

I don';t know the exact size but a guy brought some resistors to Arduino club as a challenge that were about the size of a grain of sand. Drop one on the table and you could easily lose it. I don't even know how a pick and place machine can work with them (anybody?). Is there really a need for components that small?  :-//

(The challenge was to measure the resistance with a multimeter...)

highly-integrated ICs with many legs

That one's actually much easier than it looks: You don't solder each leg individually, you just bathe them all in solder and let the solder mask do its job. If two legs short together you can usually run the iron down between them and they'll separate. If the board is well-prepared with a flux pen then the only real trick is to use the right amount of solder.

(and if you use too much then desoldering braid will fix it in no time)
 

Online bd139

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2020, 01:22:43 pm »
Got to be honest I prefer SMD now. It's much much easier to work with and the parts don't take up as much room in storage. Also they're a lot cheaper!

Couple of prototypes I did same day turnaround:



 
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Offline exe

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2020, 01:33:15 pm »
If I used SMD on the board I'd have to order a bunch of duplicate SMD parts, too, so...  :-//

For me this is only concern for ICs, as I already have kits of passive components from China, both TH and SMD. For ICs, since they are expensive and sometimes don't come in TH package, I use smd-to-dip converters.

I do very little soldering, most the time I spend in spice simulators and writing code. So, I think I can afford pcb fabrication for projects I do as there are not many.

That one's actually much easier than it looks: You don't solder each leg individually, you just bathe them all in solder and let the solder mask do its job


Sorry, I meant complexity of using them. That is reading lengthy datasheets, programming it or controlling via SPI, esp. initialization, routing traces, power supply sequencing... this sort of challenges. Nowadays even dc-dc converters have built-in mcus and proprietary firmwares... I have a few displays from aliexpress that I couldn't make working. I still don't know if they were dead, or I killed them, or I didn't initialize them properly. Or may be the seller advertised a wrong controller, and I used a wrong datasheet. Sometimes a single instruction, or a single pin tied to a wrong rail can screw it, that's why I don't like sophisticated ICs that do many things at once.

Is there really a need for components that small?  :-//

If they are on sale, then there is a demand :).
 

Offline unknownparticle

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2020, 01:35:17 pm »
My electronics life began at the cusp of the IC, and valves were still being used in some applications, you could certainly still obtain them at every electronics store, so what amazes me most about SMD is their obvious tolerance to soldering temperature, both with an iron or especially with hot air.
How do they do that?!
DC coupling is the devils work!!
 

Offline newbrain

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2020, 01:44:35 pm »
I'm not afraid of SMD because of the size, I don't use them because almost everything I make is a one-off or in small quantities so drawing a proper PCB, ordering it, waiting for it to arrive, etc., is a non-starter.
Same here about one-offs, but I'm using SMD more and more on protoboards: 0805 and 0603 fit perfectly in between 2.54mm pads!
1206, OTOH are too large and difficult to fit.
I very seldom use THT passives nowadays.
ICs get adapter boards (unless they can fit dying bug style - some legs down, some legs up...).
956918-0
Not the best to look at, but workable if you don't want to wait for a proper PCB.

Nandemo wa shiranai wa yo, shitteru koto dake.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Do you hate blue resistors?
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2020, 03:15:33 pm »
Same here about one-offs, but I'm using SMD more and more on protoboards: 0805 and 0603 fit perfectly in between 2.54mm pads!
1206, OTOH are too large and difficult to fit.

Yeah. But there's a lot of SMD proto boards these days. They used to be a bit expensive, but now you can find them for pretty cheap through Aliexpress/eBay and the like. Most are 1.27mm pitch, with which you can do a lot, and for finer pitch ICs, you can use adapter boards (also easily available), or solder tiny wires on the pads for QFNs for instance (a bit annoying, but quite doable with a soldering microscope and a steady hand).
 


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