EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Fungus on March 22, 2020, 02:07:32 pm
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Seems like all the resistors that arrive here are blue these days and I hate them. It's much harder to see the colors and read the values than the old brown ones.
What gives? Who took the decision to change the color and why? Does anybody know?
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I'm neutral about them.
I think the brown ones tend to be carbon film and the blue ones are normally metal film, but don't think there's a standard.
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I prefer the military-style metal film resistors with a light tan body, but they use lettering rather than color bands.
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Seems like a simple solution : go with surface mount 0805 or 1206 resistors. They'll have the value written on them.
You can easily add leads to them if needed, or just solder them on the through hole pads.
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I'm neutral about them.
I think the brown ones tend to be carbon film and the blue ones are normally metal film, but don't think there's a standard.
That's what I have always seen as well. Dunno about a standard, but I don't think I have ever seen "blue" TH resistors that weren't metal film.
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Seems like all the resistors that arrive here are blue these days and I hate them.
Buy carbon crap and you will get brown resistors. Brown = carbon, blue = metal film (unless you buy dodgy crap on ebay).
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He's a colourist everyone, lynch him.
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While the color itself is a matter of taste, a blue resistor gives the impression of it being a modern and higher quality, because this is generally very likely true - lower noise and higher accuracy metal film as opposed to carbon film.
With resistors, modern likely means better. Yesterday's 20% is today's 5%, and so on.
This is why we who prefer high-quality designs, get good "vibes" from the blue color resistors, while those who prefer retro vintage artefacts, will hate anything that has high likelyhood of being closer to ideal.
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I hate them with a passion.
Not because they are bad resistors - they're not. They are metal film that, typically, have better tolerance and better thermal attributes.
What I hate is identifying them.
Throw a fistful of carbon film resistors on the bench and I can pick out a 470R, 56k or any other E12 value just by scanning. With the buggers with the intense blue coloured bodies, it becomes a detective exercise. Even then, some values are still ambiguous - so the meter comes out to check. Very annoying.
Who picked this colour? If they wanted a blue, they could have gone for a much lighter shade, couldn't they?
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What I hate is identifying them.
Who picked this colour? If they wanted a blue, they could have gone for a much lighter shade, couldn't they?
This.
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Who picked this colour? If they wanted a blue, they could have gone for a much lighter shade, couldn't they?
Never really had a problem with them myself, but I know that not everyone has the same eyesight. Some people would have a harder time, especially if they are color blind, even if just very slightly.
I practically never use TH resistors anymore these days anyway...
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I find them much harder to read too
SMD's are much easier with the value written on them... but they're quite sad, I loved the 80's with so much colorful components, PCBs looked like rainbows
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All these problems can be solved with my multiple step plan for success:
1. Buy them by the hundred (I usually buy the royal ohm ones from tayda/CPC)
2. Store in properly labelled bags identified by the ones they come in.
3. Take what you need out and use it
4. When you are done or have desoldered one throw it in the bin and forget it existed.
5. If you drop one, throw it in the bin and get another one out.
You’re basically screwed these days anyway. A lot of components have useless codes on or aren’t marked (SMD) so just shrug and get used to binning them.
If you’re sly, sweep them all into a box and sell it on eBay for some other idiot to deal with. They go for good money :-DD
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What I hate is identifying them.
why don't you use an ohmmeter then? :-DD
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The only problem I've had with identifying a blue resistor is a yellow band looked a bit more greenish, so I used 100k, rather than 1M once and I wondered why the circuit didn't work, but I've also had a similar problem with a red band looking a bit more brownish, on a brown resistor. I'm very sightly red-green colour blind which is actually a misnomer as I can tell the difference between red and green, it's more subtle shades of dark green/red and brown which I have a more difficult time with distinguishing between, than most people. I can see that this text is red and this text is green.
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Apart from the background colours, the cheap & nasty paint used for the stripes is so poor that orange, red & brown are almost the same colour.
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Apart from the background colours, the cheap & nasty paint used for the stripes is so poor that orange, red & brown are almost the same colour.
Yep, the quality of the paint colors and the width of the stripes has deteriorated, too.
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No idea how blue became the standard for metal film, but it's always been a tad annoying. My eyes aren't exactly getting better with age, and those colors on the blue background have gotten harder in the last few years, especially in low light.
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I don't know what kind of paint they use for the stripes, but I'm pretty sure the colors would be more easily seen if they'd just not be so cheap and add a little white pigment. Many of the organic pigments are very nearly black in the masstone. Phthalo blue and phthalo green in particular are very dark. Some of the violet pigments are also. They are also fairly transparent which probably doesn't help.
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Don’t matter what colour the body is, run them a little warm and good luck identifying band colours !
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What I hate is identifying them.
why don't you use an ohmmeter then? :-DD
Indeed. ;D
People having issues identifying the colors can just use an ohmmeter and be done with it. From most distributors, the values are also usually marked in clear on the bags. If not, just do it when you store them and you're done. No biggie really...
These days, it's fun to know we can still read resistor codes, but it's not that useful anymore IMHO. :P
(OK, I'll admit that one case it can be useful is for identifying resistors already soldered on some undocumented board - testing them in-circuit often yields the wrong value.)
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I store resistors in amo pack with a label. On label I have value, tolerance, and tempco. In addition, I always check actual value with a DMM or SMD twezers.
Motivation: I've had enough resistors with un-identifiable colors. Is this band grey or silver? is it yellow or gold? Is it the first band, or the last? May be it's even not a resistor, but inductor in a similar package. Even if I identify colors the right way, I can still make a mistake with calculating value by an order of magnitude :).
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I keep my resistors in cases of tubes sorted into different values. I stock 1R to 10M, with 10R to 1M in E24 values and the others in E12 values.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=987.0;attach=13874;image) (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/component-organization/?action=dlattach;attach=2127;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=987.0;attach=13873;image) (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/component-organization/?action=dlattach;attach=2125;image)
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One of the first things I learned as a really young player was the resistor color code. But with older eyes, and the much lighter printing of the colors these days, I just keep a meter handy, and populate one value at a time. Say my board has 12 pullups of 10K each, I'll make sure I have a little stack of 12 resistors checked to be sure they are 10K, then populate all those, then move on to the next value.
I'm still all thru-hole, with my vision issues, SMD is just not in the cards. Magnification is not the problem - I have very limited vision in my right eye so depth perception is off. At least with TH, it's something I am extremely familiar with and I can find the spot to solder - haven't burned a finger yet, or my nose (you don't want to watch me solder...really). I notice this more and more - things I am familiar with, it's as if my depth perception has not altered. Amazing how the brain can compensate. But something unfamiliar - I'll miss the mark a time or two.
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(OK, I'll admit that one case it can be useful is for identifying resistors already soldered on some undocumented board - testing them in-circuit often yields the wrong value.)
Yes, that's the main reason for the colour band, although they're no good if the resistor has overheated and become discoloured.
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I dislike the blue color, but it's been a long while since I don't carry one of my good meters together with alligator clips when I am sorting this type of stuff. My eyesight is going fast as well...
Regarding sorting, I use coin envelopes that allow me to scribble any type of info and fit very well in quite a number of cardboard boxes. :-+
[attach=1]
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4. When you are done or have desoldered one throw it in the bin and forget it existed.
5. If you drop one, throw it in the bin and get another one out.
These points are becoming more common with me. Even when using breadboards, the resistors don't usually find their way back to the fold.
If you’re sly, sweep them all into a box and sell it on eBay for some other idiot to deal with. They go for good money :-DD
Sounds like a plan ... and one that fits the way things are going with me. :-+
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the benefit of blue resistors or non brown resistors is that natural over heating deformation is brown and char is black, these colors stand out on blue, so a quick visual inspection may detect problems
however, there are better colors for this possibly, White resistors?
if you notice, fuses are often light green (through hole littlefuse), not sure if this is done for this reason to identify burn. The problem with white might be false positives from flux and dust contamination, they will show everything.
I assume you like the really old brown ones (true cylinder shape), not the tan ones, those will stand out better
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Resistors_axial.jpg)
low level/hunch/probability based analysis usually leads me to believe the tan resistors are 5% carbon film, but this is not always the case.
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That poll at the top of the thread is clearly lacking an "I don't care" option.
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Don't remember the last time I've seen or used a giant barrel resistor. Just put many 0805 resistors in parallel/series if you need higher power rating.
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I assume you like the really old brown ones (true cylinder shape), not the tan ones, those will stand out better
Don't be absurd. Carbon composition resistors aren't something anyone really likes these days.
They did have one thing, though, that the blue bodied beasties do not possess .... readable bands.
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Is it the first band, or the last?
This, too. The blue ones usually have five bands, arranged symmetrically. It's usually hard to see which end to start decoding.
The brown ones are a lot more obvious.
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This picture could be used for EE torture.
I go with light blue Xicon 271 and can't stand the dark blue Yageo MFR-25 brutal hard to read- orange/brown/red look almost the same to me.
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This picture could be used for EE torture.
I'll donate a free Internet to anybody who can decode all of those by sight. :popcorn:
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The bastard is 33k2 (second from right) but I just realized the problem is LED lighting has very little red spectrum in it. The colours look much better under halogen lighting- although dark blue body still sucks.
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This picture could be used for EE torture.
Yes, that is a careful selection of torture instruments. :clap:
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This picture could be used for EE torture.
I go with light blue Xicon 271 and can't stand the dark blue Yageo MFR-25 brutal hard to read- orange/brown/red look almost the same to me.
Err bin, bin, hmm bin, bin, bin, bin, bin, bin and bin.
At least it's not like that bloody awful Pearson textbook I saw once where the print was so bad you couldn't tell the difference between brown, red and orange. I was asked to review it for a friend before he gave it to his son and suggested he burned the fucking thing.
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:-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
On behalf of every one of us colourblind gentlemen, I'd like to welcome you to our world.
:-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
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What I find much worse are dark green metal film resistors. The darker colours are almost completely unreadable
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What are these odd things with leads, anyway? Have we travelled back in time to the 1980s?
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Stuff all this modern rubbish, carbon film, metal film, metal oxide, whatever. Lets go back to good old 2" long solid carbon resistors with body, tip and spot colour coding, those were the days!!
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color code is so 1950's.
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color code is so 1950's.
So am I. ;D
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Those of us getting a bit long in the tooth also don't appreciate the fact that metal film resistor bands are so thin! That certainly doesn't help, in combination with the color contrast issues mentioned above.
But I like quality, precision, and dependability, so I try not to grumble too much. Metal film units have served me well over the years.
Yepper, keep El Senor Ohmmeter handy... \$\Omega\$? \$\Omega\$? \$\Omega\$?
BTW, in reply to an earlier post, why would anyone want to identify a roasted resistor, anyway? :-//
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BTW, in reply to an earlier post, why would anyone want to identify a roasted resistor, anyway? :-//
Replace a resistor in a non-working equipment? :-//
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What are these odd things with leads, anyway? Have we travelled back in time to the 1980s?
Yeah the future looks excellent
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Markings? What markings.... there are no markings on 0402 resistors... :box:
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Blind date with a resistor? Hope she's 10k lol
0402 only really used in mobile stuff - cell phones, tablets, laptop etc. where electrons of no particular value travel. I'll bet none of your test gear has 0402's.
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Blind date with a resistor? Hope she's 10k lol
0402 only really used in mobile stuff - cell phones, tablets, laptop etc. where electrons of no particular value travel. I'll bet none of your test gear has 0402's.
0402? Phone? Well, at least we've made it up to 2005 now..
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Where's the power? 0402 good for 63mW. I can't work with little pepper flakes, too small for my eyes and the slightest bump sends them flying.
It's weird one consumer product drives the entire electronics industry towards the smallest parts, to the extinction of engineers being able to prototype something. In that sense, blue resistors are awesome.
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Where's the power? 0402 good for 63mW. I can't work with little pepper flakes, too small for my eyes and the slightest bump sends them flying.
It's weird one consumer product drives the entire electronics industry towards the smallest parts, to the extinction of engineers being able to prototype something. In that sense, blue resistors are awesome.
I think so far there is a wide range of components available on the market: from beefy current shunts, to parts less than 0201. I use all of them (I mean both th and smd), TH for breadboarding and when I have to dissipate a lot of heat (hello to-220 and to-247), and 0603 when I have a pcb and I want to save some board space. I used to use 0805, but they are "too big" :).
In my next project I'll try using 0402. I already have experience soldering them with a naked eye (on training smd boards). With a bit of practice it was actually not hard at all. But I wouldn't go smaller, at least not now.
I also have 0204 capacitors (reverse geometry), which I thought would be a great idea for bypassing digital circuits. But looking at the size of their pads, I'm not sure I'll manage. They are too tiny for me, and it looks like they are easy to short with excessive solder. So, probably, I'll use 0306.
I want to buy this kit, but it's not available: https://www.tindie.com/products/MakersBox/smd-challenge/ (https://www.tindie.com/products/MakersBox/smd-challenge/) . May be I should just make my own version...
My advise for people who are afraid of smd because of the size: it's much easier than it looks, up to 0603 requires no special skills. 0402 a bit trickier, I suggest practice on an "smd training kit" before working with them on actual equipment.
PS smd tweezers are awesome. Can be used both for measurements and for placing if working with a stencil.
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Where's the power? 0402 good for 63mW. I can't work with little pepper flakes, too small for my eyes and the slightest bump sends them flying.
Not only power but voltage as well. Slap an 0402 at the high voltage part of your power supply, immerse it in a humid environment for a few months/years and watch sparks fly. You can't beat physics.
My advise for people who are afraid of smd because of the size: it's much easier than it looks, up to 0603 requires no special skills. 0402 a bit trickier, I suggest practice on an "smd training kit" before working with them on actual equipment.
PS smd tweezers are awesome. Can be used both for measurements and for placing if working with a stencil.
I agree on the SMD training kit - these are very useful but could be replaced by old boards on a pinch.
But no special skills?!? The physical tolerances and marging for error are much narrower, requiring not only a feather touch hand but quite a few aids to help with the process, such as a loupe/microscope (stereo is even better), a fine pitch solder and soldering iron, spare flux and wick/braid for the occasional removal/resoldering of a part, kapton tape or other way to hold a QFP part in place...
You can solder a through hole part with a "fire stick" soldering iron featuring a 5mm tip half eaten by continuous use, filing it along the way to remove crud that accumulates as you go, whatever remnants of solder you have around and with a much heavier hand and a pair of reading glasses if you are aging. Some friends even used a clothes iron for the lack of a better thing available in an emergency.
Several years ago I have transitioned to 1206 and 0805 and, even when my eyesight was good, I still needed the optical amplification (loupe, stereo microscope) to be sure the job was well done (no solder blobs or shorts, proper positioning and alignment of parts). For the past year or so demand required me to move to 0402 parts and I can tell no special skills are required for this when compared to the 1206/0805, just a much lighter touch of hand.
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But no special skills?!? The physical tolerances and marging for error are much narrower, requiring not only a feather touch hand but quite a few aids to help with the process, such as a loupe/microscope (stereo is even better), a fine pitch solder and soldering iron, spare flux and wick/braid for the occasional removal/resoldering of a part, kapton tape or other way to hold a QFP part in place...
Ah, I took this for granted ;D . Also a hotair gun... The tool I really miss at times when dealing with lead-free is a bottom heater (though I woudn't say this is specific to smd, as I had troubles desoldering a TH-cap from a motherboard due to power planes). Also hooking test leads is a problem for me. Micrograbbers are expensive. I also have a spring-loaded needle-like probes, but I didn't manage to use them on 0.65mm tqfp, it's too easy to fall off (and short something).
I usually don't use a tape to keep parts in place, tacky flux help with this. But that's my personal preference.
My message was more like "embrace the fear". I was terrified by smd for many years, until just accepted it. Now I love it more than TH. It actually makes many things easier and faster (if the pcb is ready). Just put it on the board and bake it :).
My fears now are BGA, fine-pitched components, components smaller than 0402, and highly-integrated ICs with many legs, power sequencing, impedance matching, etc. I haven't dealt with them yet, but one day may time will come...
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I can't read the color strips over the blue. I ALWAYS have to measure them. :rant:
I rarely have to do the same in tan ones.
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My advise for people who are afraid of smd because of the size:
I'm not afraid of SMD because of the size, I don't use them because almost everything I make is a one-off or in small quantities so drawing a proper PCB, ordering it, waiting for it to arrive, etc., is a non-starter.
On the odd occasion when I do make a PCB I use through-hole because that's the parts I have in the drawer from the prototyping. If I used SMD on the board I'd have to order a bunch of duplicate SMD parts, too, so... :-//
If you're producing en-masse or if somebody's paying you to sit in an office and prototype stuff then sure, SMD all the way.
What are these odd things with leads, anyway? Have we travelled back in time to the 1980s?
They're alive and well around here. :-+
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My fears now are ... components smaller than 0402
I don';t know the exact size but a guy brought some resistors to Arduino club as a challenge that were about the size of a grain of sand. Drop one on the table and you could easily lose it. I don't even know how a pick and place machine can work with them (anybody?). Is there really a need for components that small? :-//
(The challenge was to measure the resistance with a multimeter...)
highly-integrated ICs with many legs
That one's actually much easier than it looks: You don't solder each leg individually, you just bathe them all in solder and let the solder mask do its job. If two legs short together you can usually run the iron down between them and they'll separate. If the board is well-prepared with a flux pen then the only real trick is to use the right amount of solder.
(and if you use too much then desoldering braid will fix it in no time)
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Got to be honest I prefer SMD now. It's much much easier to work with and the parts don't take up as much room in storage. Also they're a lot cheaper!
Couple of prototypes I did same day turnaround:
(https://i.imgur.com/Btwh8Ey.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TWaIR7H.jpg)
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If I used SMD on the board I'd have to order a bunch of duplicate SMD parts, too, so... :-//
For me this is only concern for ICs, as I already have kits of passive components from China, both TH and SMD. For ICs, since they are expensive and sometimes don't come in TH package, I use smd-to-dip converters.
I do very little soldering, most the time I spend in spice simulators and writing code. So, I think I can afford pcb fabrication for projects I do as there are not many.
That one's actually much easier than it looks: You don't solder each leg individually, you just bathe them all in solder and let the solder mask do its job
Sorry, I meant complexity of using them. That is reading lengthy datasheets, programming it or controlling via SPI, esp. initialization, routing traces, power supply sequencing... this sort of challenges. Nowadays even dc-dc converters have built-in mcus and proprietary firmwares... I have a few displays from aliexpress that I couldn't make working. I still don't know if they were dead, or I killed them, or I didn't initialize them properly. Or may be the seller advertised a wrong controller, and I used a wrong datasheet. Sometimes a single instruction, or a single pin tied to a wrong rail can screw it, that's why I don't like sophisticated ICs that do many things at once.
Is there really a need for components that small? :-//
If they are on sale, then there is a demand :).
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My electronics life began at the cusp of the IC, and valves were still being used in some applications, you could certainly still obtain them at every electronics store, so what amazes me most about SMD is their obvious tolerance to soldering temperature, both with an iron or especially with hot air.
How do they do that?!
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I'm not afraid of SMD because of the size, I don't use them because almost everything I make is a one-off or in small quantities so drawing a proper PCB, ordering it, waiting for it to arrive, etc., is a non-starter.
Same here about one-offs, but I'm using SMD more and more on protoboards: 0805 and 0603 fit perfectly in between 2.54mm pads!
1206, OTOH are too large and difficult to fit.
I very seldom use THT passives nowadays.
ICs get adapter boards (unless they can fit dying bug style - some legs down, some legs up...).
[attach=1]
Not the best to look at, but workable if you don't want to wait for a proper PCB.
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Same here about one-offs, but I'm using SMD more and more on protoboards: 0805 and 0603 fit perfectly in between 2.54mm pads!
1206, OTOH are too large and difficult to fit.
Yeah. But there's a lot of SMD proto boards these days. They used to be a bit expensive, but now you can find them for pretty cheap through Aliexpress/eBay and the like. Most are 1.27mm pitch, with which you can do a lot, and for finer pitch ICs, you can use adapter boards (also easily available), or solder tiny wires on the pads for QFNs for instance (a bit annoying, but quite doable with a soldering microscope and a steady hand).