General > General Technical Chat
do you work out?
thm_w:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 19, 2020, 08:22:50 am ---Perhaps your wife is right?
Of course it's just to caloric restriction. Your body has being buring fat and muscle, both from its stores and the little you've being eating. There's no other explaination for this.
You don't have to be underweight to be have malnutrition and I'm not talking about the sort caused by lack of vitamins, but energy-protein deficiency. Loosing that much weight, that quickly, will certainly cause some degree of malnutrition, especialy as your BMI wasn't that high to start with.
--- End quote ---
BMI of 21 is OK, depending on what studies you look at, maybe worse for someone older (>50). But I do agree, 4kg fat loss 6kg something else. If possible in the future should aim to not lose more lean mass.
17% BF is good. This number could be high or low by 5% or more, hard to say without seeing the guy.
Probably best to get some blood tests then, and check for any nutrient deficiencies.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(18)30288-2/fulltext
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/abs/10.7326/M15-1181
https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m688 (fiber!)
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0193368
greasemonkey:
--- Quote from: thm_w on June 19, 2020, 11:16:45 pm ---
Probably best to get some blood tests then, and check for any nutrient deficiencies.
--- End quote ---
To that I agree. I will do some blood test and other exams this fall. I also have records for the last 10-15 years to compare.
Now to the issue of malnutrition. AFAIK the are no essential carbohydrates. So theoretically at least the absence of carbs in a diet does not lead to malnutrition. And don't forget I am still eating everything else.
These are the symptoms of malnutrition according to the NHS. Undoubtedly I have the main symptom (5-10% weight loss in 3-6 months) but none of the other. And believe me if you do physical work you know when your energy is low.
Muscle mass loss
I lost roughly 4kg of fat and 6kg of lean mass. This means that when I was 80kg I had 16kg of fat. This means that 20% of my weight was fat. Now I am 70kg and have 12kg of fat. That is 17% fat. So although in absolute numbers I lost more muscle than fat I am relative more muscular. I can do 6 pull-ups now. 6 months ago I could barely manage 2.
--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 19, 2020, 08:22:50 am ---Why did you decide to lose weight in the first place? Your starting BMI isn't considered to be overweight by medical professionals. I know BMI is just a rough indicator, but even if you were carying a little excess fat, it was certainly more healthy than this and I doubt you needed to lose more than 5kg.
Have you dieted before? If so what other diets have you tried?
--- End quote ---
I did not decide to lose weight because obviously I didn't need to. I read Gary Taubes' book Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It and thought I would try. By the way if you decide to cut carbs your life becomes much simpler. There is nothing to buy from the gas station on your way to work (maybe dried nuts) :-DD.
I had only dieted once before (10 years ago) in order to be a faster tennis player. I was about 85kg back then and dropped to 77 in three months. But I got my diet from a nutritionist and also had a nice lady who cooked my meals. The diet was not restricted in calories, just less carbs and fat. After that I oscillated between 75 and 80kg.
Please understand that I am not trying to peddle anything here. If someone told me this 6 months ago I would have had the same reaction.
Zero999:
--- Quote from: greasemonkey on June 20, 2020, 10:01:12 am ---
--- Quote from: thm_w on June 19, 2020, 11:16:45 pm ---
Probably best to get some blood tests then, and check for any nutrient deficiencies.
--- End quote ---
To that I agree. I will do some blood test and other exams this fall. I also have records for the last 10-15 years to compare.
Now to the issue of malnutrition. AFAIK the are no essential carbohydrates. So theoretically at least the absence of carbs in a diet does not lead to malnutrition. And don't forget I am still eating everything else.
These are the symptoms of malnutrition according to the NHS. Undoubtedly I have the main symptom (5-10% weight loss in 3-6 months) but none of the other. And believe me if you do physical work you know when your energy is low.
Muscle mass loss
I lost roughly 4kg of fat and 6kg of lean mass. This means that when I was 80kg I had 16kg of fat. This means that 20% of my weight was fat. Now I am 70kg and have 12kg of fat. That is 17% fat. So although in absolute numbers I lost more muscle than fat I am relative more muscular. I can do 6 pull-ups now. 6 months ago I could barely manage 2.
--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 19, 2020, 08:22:50 am ---Why did you decide to lose weight in the first place? Your starting BMI isn't considered to be overweight by medical professionals. I know BMI is just a rough indicator, but even if you were carying a little excess fat, it was certainly more healthy than this and I doubt you needed to lose more than 5kg.
Have you dieted before? If so what other diets have you tried?
--- End quote ---
I did not decide to lose weight because obviously I didn't need to. I read Gary Taubes' book Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It and thought I would try. By the way if you decide to cut carbs your life becomes much simpler. There is nothing to buy from the gas station on your way to work (maybe dried nuts) :-DD.
I had only dieted once before (10 years ago) in order to be a faster tennis player. I was about 85kg back then and dropped to 77 in three months. But I got my diet from a nutritionist and also had a nice lady who cooked my meals. The diet was not restricted in calories, just less carbs and fat. After that I oscillated between 75 and 80kg.
Please understand that I am not trying to peddle anything here. If someone told me this 6 months ago I would have had the same reaction.
--- End quote ---
No, I don't think you're pushing anything. I'm concerned about you because I've done a similar thing before and suffered from health problems in the long term. The first year or so was good, but I ended up with an eating disorder, which took awhile to recover from and still have some lasting damage. One thing to note about that link is it says unintentional weight loss, but the effect on your body is the same, regardless of whether you're on a diet, or have inadequate access to food.
Restricting carbohydrates has the same effect as restricting calories, as you said, there are fewer food options, which makes it easier to eat less, but that doesn't mean it's good. It's funny how people think they've just discovered the magic new low carb diet, when in fact it's old. I've read similar books to that before. It's all a load of bollocks and only works due to caloric restriction.
It's true that there are no essential carbohydrates, but that doesn't mean that low carb diets are healthy. Cutting out whole food groups severely restricts other essential nutrients. Ketosis is bad and no human population has lived off a ketogenic diet for very long. Contrary to popular belief, even the Inuit don't live off a keto diet, because they get plenty of carbohydrates from glycogen in freshly killed meat. 100 years ago people lived of a diet with very little meat and loads of carbohydrates, compared to fat and obesity wasn't an issue.
Severely reducing your food options doesn't make life simpler, but less pleasurable. It mean something as simple as going out for a meal is a PITA. You might be able to kid yourself, that ordering a steak with a salad is nice, but you still don't receive the same level of enjoyment as you would, had you been able to select from the entire menu and eat everything on the plate.
Your wife also seems to be concerned about you, which indicates what you're doing is likely to be detrimental to your health. It might not be obvious to you at the moment, but that doesn't mean it's not damaging you. Hopefully this is just a crash diet and doesn't progress into anything more sinister, as it did with me.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on June 20, 2020, 12:28:01 pm ---Severely reducing your food options doesn't make life simpler, but less pleasurable. It mean something as simple as going out for a meal is a PITA. You might be able to kid yourself, that ordering a steak with a salad is nice, but you still don't receive the same level of enjoyment as you would, had you been able to select from the entire menu and eat everything on the plate.
--- End quote ---
Yup. I'm still eating chocolate but just less of it.
coppercone2:
btw something interesting you might find life style improvement gains from putting on muscle (different then) losing weight. the leg cramps I used to have were not related to weight. It just had to do with bigger muscles in the right places. Also related to injury resistance. IMO don't care about your weight if you want to get stronger. this is for all the people that like steak, pizza, posture and cake. Having been fat and much less fat before, I can tell you muscle is fairly permanent, and you reminisce about it much less.
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