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do you work out?

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Mr. Scram:
I'm actually advocating losing weight slowly. That's why I'm talking about a small deficit. 500 Kcal a day is already a lot in my book. That's a reduction of close to 25%! A small deficit seems key to avoid overshoot and other unwanted side effects. Meta research indicates that reducing calorie intake actually reduces cravings. I've posted a link below. Consistency is the key. I've talked about changing habits before and this is part of that. Without a deficit losing weight isn't possible. Whether that deficit is caused by reducing intake or increasing energy burn isn't entirely relevant, although I've explained in some detail why reducing intake is much more effecitive and likely to succeed. In both cases the improvement is the result of the deficit.

I understand you have some personal experiences that lead to you say "it just isn't healthy" to reduce energy intake, but that isn't really in line with what research shows us. Overdoing it or getting completely hung up on calorie counting can be harmful indeed, but it doesn't need explaining that extreme behaviours aren't what you'd want. For the same reason the Minnesota Starvation Experiment doesn't seem entirely relevant to the current discussion. The fact that "starvation" is in the name is proabably a clue that it's not a healthy dietary adjustment.

You say you weren't losing weight when you are eating according to your appetite signal. People's appetites aren't very reliable and can be way off. Regardless, even a perfectly balanced appetite isn't going to lose you weight, as it'll keep you exactly where you are. Calorie counting is an aid to eliminate the least trustworthy factor, the human and his estimates.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.12566

nctnico:

--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 18, 2018, 01:16:16 pm ---You say you weren't losing weight when you are eating according to your appetite signal. People's appetites aren't very reliable and can be way off. Regardless, even a perfectly balanced appetite isn't going to lose you weight, as it'll keep you exactly where you are. Calorie counting is an aid to eliminate the least trustworthy factor, the human and his estimates.

--- End quote ---
I agree. A couple of years ago I was getting too heavy so I subscribed to a weight loss website. The general consensus over there was to keep track of what I ate and count the calories for a week. Based on such a list you can start to eliminate the major sources of calories (In my case chocolate paste on bread  :'(  ). Furthermore you should keep eating a healthy diet which has all the recommended food types (dairy, meat, fruit, bread, etc) to stay healthy. It is that simple but ofcourse that doesn't make authors of weight loss books any money.

Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2018, 01:31:51 pm ---I agree. A couple of years ago I was getting too heavy so I subscribed to a weight loss website. The general consensus over there was to keep track of what I ate and count the calories for a week. Based on such a list you can start to eliminate the major sources of calories (In my case chocolate paste on bread  :'(  ). Furthermore you should keep eating a healthy diet which has all the recommended food types (dairy, meat, fruit, bread, etc) to stay healthy. It is that simple but ofcourse that doesn't make authors of weight loss books any money.

--- End quote ---
For the sake of completeness, are you willing to share the outcome of your endeavour?

nctnico:

--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 18, 2018, 01:35:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2018, 01:31:51 pm ---I agree. A couple of years ago I was getting too heavy so I subscribed to a weight loss website. The general consensus over there was to keep track of what I ate and count the calories for a week. Based on such a list you can start to eliminate the major sources of calories (In my case chocolate paste on bread  :'(  ). Furthermore you should keep eating a healthy diet which has all the recommended food types (dairy, meat, fruit, bread, etc) to stay healthy. It is that simple but ofcourse that doesn't make authors of weight loss books any money.

--- End quote ---
For the sake of completeness, are you willing to share the outcome of your endeavour?

--- End quote ---
Approx -23kg which got me well into the BMI region which says OK. That took me about 5 years. And I'm still not happy about having to give up Nutella on bread. Every now and then I allow myself one slice for old times' sake. Now the next step is going to keep my weight stable.

BocaDev:
These postings make me depressed.

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