Does anyone have a fully non-mechanical instrument cluster in their car?

[Sal Ammoniac]

I don't get out much at night, but from what I've seen a lot of vehicles have rather garish, and very bright, blueish-white displays. This seems like a bad idea to me with regards to night-adapted vision, though I guess most driving is done in well lit areas these days.

That's easy to fix. Just add an ambient light sensor and adjust the brightness and/or background of the display to match conditions. Tesla displays do that--bright white background during the day and black background during twilight/night.

[John B]

The fastest uptake of numerical displays on vehicles seemed to be on motorcycles. I remember arguments between the two camps who thought digital or analogue displays were superior. There's some middle ground where it's very common on motorcycles to have a numeric speed, but a dial for a tacho. Digital firmly won out over analogue for speed gauges.

Every time I drive a car, I'm reminded of how much space is wasted on the speedometer dial.

[coppice]

I don't get out much at night, but from what I've seen a lot of vehicles have rather garish, and very bright, blueish-white displays. This seems like a bad idea to me with regards to night-adapted vision, though I guess most driving is done in well lit areas these days.

Maybe some cars are badly designed, but the garish lighting is usually the owner being an idiot with the settings. Cars generally adapt the LCD brightness pretty well to the light level, and often switch the format of the display to a night mode when the headlights are turned on, to further improve its appearance in the dark.

[james_s]

Digital speed displays were cool in the mid 80s when they were a novelty but there's a reason why almost all cars went back to analog dials. An analog dial can be read at a glance and makes it easy to see changes and rate of change without having to mentally process the numbers. Plus they just look a lot more classy. I'm sure LCD displays will win out in the end though because they're so much cheaper, and they fit right in with the smartphone addicted masses.

[maginnovision]

I personally like the typical dial gauges. My 1995 BMW M3 is currently my favorite car I own. Dial gauges for temp, fuel, speedometer, and tachometer. Has a small computer in the center that displays various data though. Motorcycles have been using digital more regularly but not very nice ones typically. I know the newer BMW R bikes use full color digital displays that people generally like but plenty still don't want them. Yamaha guys all seem to love them though. My bike has dial gauges and I prefer them but if instead say the F850R came out with only a digital dash... I'd still get it.

I think it's just about how well they work, readability aside. If it doesn't update quickly most people won't like it. The model 3 is really ugly at least s and x have a typical dash. I already dislike looking at the radio. I've always found HUDs to be the worst option though. I've never seen one of those I liked

[Sal Ammoniac]

there's a reason why almost all cars went back to analog dials. An analog dial can be read at a glance and makes it easy to see changes and rate of change without having to mentally process the numbers. Plus they just look a lot more classy.

To each his own. My last four cars have all had digital speed displays and I won't go back to analog. When looking for a new car, a digital display is a must-have for me.

To do digital speed displays properly requires a well-chosen smoothing function. Displaying the instantaneous raw speed just doesn't cut it. The smoothing function is the equivalent of the lag in a mechanical analog display.

[coppice]

Digital speed displays were cool in the mid 80s when they were a novelty,but there's a reason why almost all cars went back to analog dials.

Early digital speed displays were very much uncool, because they were so badly implemented. That is why they quickly disappeared. The world has moved on.

An analog dial can be read at a glance and makes it easy to see changes and rate of change without having to mentally process the numbers. Plus they just look a lot more classy.

Most cars with electromechanical analogue displays now have a small LCD for status information, which can also show the speed digitally. I've never driven a car with both digital and analogue speed displays where I take any notice of the analogue display.

I'm sure LCD displays will win out in the end though because they're so much cheaper, and they fit right in with the smartphone addicted masses.

Eventually they will be cheaper, but right now the base models of many cars still use electromechanical displays, and only the deluxe models have a full LCD display.

[james_s]

The digital displays are cheaper to produce, it's just an added bonus that car makers have figured out they can charge extra for the cheaper product because it's new and looks fancy.

Not that it really matters, hasn't been a car made since the late 90s, maybe early 2000's that has interested me in the least. Throughout the first half of my life it seemed like cars were getting better and more refined every year, then they started to really go off the deep end with styling and have gotten uglier and uglier every year. Now cars all look the same, like a used bar of soap bloated beyond belief with silly gadgets I don't need or want.

I suppose at some point I'll be forced to buy some newer piece of shit blob-mobile as a beater to get me around so I can keep a classic in the garage for when I want to actually enjoy myself.

[John B]

Digital speed displays were cool in the mid 80s when they were a novelty but there's a reason why almost all cars went back to analog dials. An analog dial can be read at a glance and makes it easy to see changes and rate of change without having to mentally process the numbers. Plus they just look a lot more classy. I'm sure LCD displays will win out in the end though because they're so much cheaper, and they fit right in with the smartphone addicted masses.

Just as per my post, these are the exact points that I remember floating around >15 years ago in motorcycle groups. Digital still won out.

There are many odd design decisions in cars all made with the purpose of appealing to the intended market. Decisions which seem to mainly focus on aesthetics rather than function. Like putting an analogue clock in expensive cars, mainly to appeal to the 60+ year old buyers.

[james_s]

I'm a lot younger than 60 and I've always thought analog clocks look classy. I was growing up just around the time digital stuff was getting very cheap in the 80s-90s so digital stuff usually looks cheap to me. 

[John B]

I'm a lot younger than 60 and I've always thought analog clocks look classy. I was growing up just around the time digital stuff was getting very cheap in the 80s-90s so digital stuff usually looks cheap to me.

That's probably the crux of the issue.  "Looks classy" = parting with more cash for a new vehicle.

I think you only need to look at vehicle brochures and advertising to see that good mechanical engineering and function aren't selling points. It's about electronic toys, social image, status, lifestyle and other things that make me want to throw up in my mouth.

Personally I like quite simple industrial or military looking gauges, but I realise I'm not the target demographic for automotive makers. Having said that, it makes me wonder if the F-35 fighter has a 20 second Lockheed Martin splash screen on startup 

[NiHaoMike]

I'm under the impression digital instrument clusters are the norm nowadays.

[tszaboo]

What's an instrument cluster ? (Tesla driver  )

Beat me to it (1 month into Model 3 ownership)

Seriously, give me a normal dash (whether "steam gauges" or displays) over that enormous "TV" in the middle that Tesla Model 3 has. That's just plain ugly unless you want to actually use it as a TV.

The model 3 display is just ridiculous.
What were they thinking???
I prefer having a HUD with my speed, and having a button under my thumb if I want to adjust the temperature, or accept a call on the phone. So I dont risk driving into a ditch every  time I want to adjust the temperature. Or change the volume on the stereo.
I have a prius 3, display like the previous post. Regular LCD nowadays is just embarrassing. Whatsup with a digital analog dials. Like really, is it better to have a tiny pointer to on a dial, ending with 250KMPH where you typically use 1/4 of the full dial, instead of two big numbers telling you: 56. On your windscreen.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/hiding-basic-car-controls-in-a-touchscreen-is-stupid-and-distracting/

Peugeot makes a big deal about the decluttered dash in its 308, but it’s an utter pain having to fiddle about with sub-menus just to change basic settings. And that one screen has to do too many things: want to change something on the stereo? Fine, but I hope you don’t mind your navigation disappearing while you do so…

The worst offender, though, is the Tesla Model S. The 17-inch touchscreen is a fantastic bit of kit, and great for internet browsing when you’re not moving or have a passenger to keep occupied, but almost every single control has been hidden amongst various sub-menus. Even the sunroof.

So every time you see a button disappear, think of one thing. Just one thing.
Cost saving. They just made something more inconvenient for you, just to save 2 EUR. And that is bullshit.

[Sal Ammoniac]

The model 3 display is just ridiculous.
What were they thinking???
I prefer having a HUD with my speed, and having a button under my thumb if I want to adjust the temperature, or accept a call on the phone. So I dont risk driving into a ditch every  time I want to adjust the temperature. Or change the volume on the stereo.

You can accept a call without using the touchscreen. Same with the volume of the stereo.

[e100]

I find it fascinating that dial gauge displays on modern aircraft glass displays look so different from their automotive counterparts.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/boeing-instrument-panel-cockpit-displays-er-system-display-showing-primary-engine-indications-n-egt-compressed-secondary-68102307.jpg

https://www.helis.com/database/pics/news/2017/md920_idu-680.jpg

https://www.cap-ny153.org/Glass%20Cockpit%20Dynon%20with%20Engine.jpg

[james_s]

You can accept a call without using the touchscreen. Same with the volume of the stereo.

IMO one shouldn't be accepting a call while driving, it should be illegal to do so. They have passed silly token laws that mandate hands free despite numerous studies showing that hands free makes no difference, it's being engaged in a phone call that is distracting. I know I sure can't pay attention to doing something else while I'm on the phone and judging by what I see on the road these days neither can most other people. Distracted driving is an epidemic in densely populated areas.

[lordium]

I have a new VW with full display. My impression so far is that it's no issue at all.
Both in strong daylight and night time the display is never hard to read or distracting.
You can also choose many different display modes, but just leave at the fake dials with the area in between for what ever is going on right now (usually distance to car in front).
Not really sure why I use the dials mode, because I never look at them. I just keep speed with traffic in front anyway (city driving) and cruise control when on highway.

(picture is not from my car, but looks the same)

[Mr. Scram]

The digital displays are cheaper to produce, it's just an added bonus that car makers have figured out they can charge extra for the cheaper product because it's new and looks fancy.

Not that it really matters, hasn't been a car made since the late 90s, maybe early 2000's that has interested me in the least. Throughout the first half of my life it seemed like cars were getting better and more refined every year, then they started to really go off the deep end with styling and have gotten uglier and uglier every year. Now cars all look the same, like a used bar of soap bloated beyond belief with silly gadgets I don't need or want.

I suppose at some point I'll be forced to buy some newer piece of shit blob-mobile as a beater to get me around so I can keep a classic in the garage for when I want to actually enjoy myself.

Cars all look the same because they're shaped by the same requirements. Decades ago we didn't care about passenger or pedestrian safety or mileage. When you design for those three plus a few others you inevitably end up with very similar solutions. Another factor is that due to the increased cost of designing a car you need to service a larger market which inevitably leads to common denominator designs. Exterior size and costs are tuned to service as many customers as possible.

[Mr. Scram]

I find it fascinating that dial gauge displays on modern aircraft glass displays look so different from their automotive counterparts.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/boeing-instrument-panel-cockpit-displays-er-system-display-showing-primary-engine-indications-n-egt-compressed-secondary-68102307.jpg

https://www.helis.com/database/pics/news/2017/md920_idu-680.jpg

https://www.cap-ny153.org/Glass%20Cockpit%20Dynon%20with%20Engine.jpg

I have to ask, what's your agenda? Are you contemplating buying a car with an electronic panel or manufacturer shares?

[Rerouter]

Repair this stuff for a living, even have about 5 old full VFD based instrument clusters back at the shop, there brightness failed badly after only 12 years (especially if left in the sun) and there power supply was quite the broadband noise source once the caps began to fail

Stepper motor movements are fine so long as they use some level of micro-stepping, to hide the stair step effect (really apparent on some bus speedo's, e.g. 0.5km steps)

Sine / Cos drivers (When calibrated and balanced!) are the nicest, as you can pick the small trends in it very easily,

LCD speedo's are a little tiresome, as you have to have that 0.5 second pause to process the number every time you look down, which is longer than "Does pointer sit at right mark"

It may have improved now with the entire panel essentially being an LCD on modern cars, (I don't see these things until they start failing), but back in the led segment type speedo's, it was a pain, And making a LCD panel that will survive up to 15 years in full daylight is hard.

As to making your own cluster, in general the baseline you have to meet for driving around while your instrument cluster is being repaired is:
You must be able to tell your road speed, and for the speed to not read slower than the vehicles road speed, (so yes you can use a GPS as a speedo in this case)
You must be able to tell if your fuel tank is low, or your engine temp too high (prevents people being stuck on the side of the road)

As for what you need to do to make it pass registration, Make it meet the same functions as your existing panel, so many older cars have panels retrofitted from other vehicles, and they pass rego. Including multiple times where we have supplied a bunch of individual gauges and warning lights in a laser cut panel to replace the original.

[CJay]

Peugeot 3008, perfect:

Test drove one of those, very nice indeed, works very well but perhaps a little too 'stylised' for my tastes

[amyk]

I have a fully mechanical one.

I don't like the "whole thing is one display" because if whatever drives it breaks, you lose all instruments instead of only the one. That might be why aircraft have separate mechanical instruments even if only as backup.

just for curiosity, whats the law say about DIY or aftermarket instrument clusters in cars?
like can I add a "CAN bus  tesla style touch screen monitor? or batmobile gauges. 

It depends on where you are, but in general there is a minimum amount of instruments that the regulations insist on (I'd guess that it includes at least a speedometer.)

[e100]

just for curiosity, whats the law say about DIY or aftermarket instrument clusters in cars?
like can I add a "CAN bus  tesla style touch screen monitor? or batmobile gauges. 

I don't know about legal requirements, but I do know of someone in Aus who lowered the suspension in their car without telling their insurance company. After the car was involved in an accident the insurance company pointed to a clause in the policy that said that the car must not be modified outside of factory specs and therefore the policy was void.

It wouldn't surprise me if they used a similar tactic if they found a customised cluster, particularly since it interfaces with the CAN bus and therefore has the potential to cause chaos if done improperly.

[Gyro]

I have to admit that I prefer the part mechanical part TFT cluster of the pre-facelift Niro to the full TFT Facelift model...

Maybe that's because I have the Pre-facelift though!

[Rerouter]

there is the cheat there, OBD connector for interfacing and power, and hold your display in place with something like velcro, technically you haven't modified the vehicle.