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| Does current flow through a Battery? |
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| Alex Eisenhut:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 24, 2021, 06:01:07 pm ---So does current actually flow at all through anything? >:D --- End quote --- This flows through me |
| TimFox:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 24, 2021, 06:01:07 pm ---So does current actually flow at all through anything? >:D --- End quote --- Yes. |
| tszaboo:
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on October 22, 2021, 01:31:45 pm ---which IS basically behaving like a battery, --- End quote --- No it doesn't. |
| ejeffrey:
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on October 24, 2021, 12:14:48 pm --- --- Quote from: TimFox on October 22, 2021, 02:36:47 pm ---"Displacement current" was discovered in the 19th Century and is included in Maxwell's Equations to explain the current through a capacitor. Ionic current in batteries is similar to ionic current in salt-water solutions. Current is a more general term than the motion of electrons in a vacuum tube. --- End quote --- Sorry Tim.... I love you as a tech contributor here, (I highlighted in BOLD your last sentence of concern)... Again, it seems to be about 'nomenclature' and not about present acceptance of 'standards' ?? I 'guess' I'm taking it to my grave then... but I can NOT accept that there is 'any' CURRENT flow that is 'not' involving actual 'Electrons', as we understand today... and I will never think any other way! :palm: --- End quote --- Please be 100% clear here: do you not want to count displacement current as "real" current or do you think ionic drift or proton motion are not "current"? Whether you want to consider displacement current "real" current or not is mostly a matter of application. Charge vs. displacement current are indeed different things, but including displacement current makes KCL exact rather than an approximation and displacement current creates magnetic fields exactly the same way as charge currents. However, charge current is independently conserved quantity so in some equations it appears alone. The correct quantity to use depends on the application. None of that is relevant to batteries which have no displacement current. The current flowing through batteries is by the physical movement of charged particles -- ions that may be positively or negatively charged. Any definition of current that doesn't count this is fatally flawed and has no technical value for any purposes. It makes as much sense as measuring traffic across a bridge and deciding that only blue and grey cars are "real" traffic and other colors like white and red are just mathematical tricks or "matters of definition" |
| tom66:
--- Quote from: IanB on October 16, 2021, 03:34:20 am --- --- Quote from: kevin original on October 16, 2021, 03:25:06 am ---So it sounds to me like batteries are really just chemical capacitors. --- End quote --- There is a sense in which this is absolutely true :) --- End quote --- Lithium-ion capacitors are a really interesting example of this. The properties of both a lithium-ion battery and a capacitor in one device. They have an energy density about half way between supercaps and real Li-Ion batteries but many of the advantages of Li-Ion. Unlike "regular" supercaps they cannot be fully discharged without damage (just like a battery) and their capacity is given as either farads or milliamp-hours. |
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