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Does current flow through a Battery?
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GlennSprigg:

--- Quote from: bdunham7 on October 24, 2021, 03:12:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on October 24, 2021, 12:14:48 pm ---I 'guess' I'm taking it to my grave then... but I can NOT accept that there is 'any' CURRENT flow that is 'not' involving
actual 'Electrons', as we  understand today...  and I will never think any other way!   :palm:

--- End quote ---

What would you call a beam of protons or alpha particles?

--- End quote ---

Errmm...  I would call that either "a beam of protons, or alpha particles"???  Not talking about 'Photons' or 'X-Ray' s either...
I'm talking about 'Electrons' flowing through conductors of electricity...   "Coils with AC on them between capacitor plates"...
Interesting, but am not talking about the likes of Inductors/Transformers using magnetic field collapses to generate voltage! 
TimFox:
I stand by my comments above about the different kinds of electrical current.
(In theoretical physics, the term "current" is applied to other phenomena, as well, but we are all talking about electrical current here.)
Since matter in bulk is damned close to neutral (electrically), the effects of current are generally more important than those of charge, since a large current can flow in a neutral-charge conductor.
But through all of this is the requirement of continuity:  the current changes type or carrier from place to place, but always goes somewhere.
Doctorandus_P:
I'm not aware that anybody has yet seen an electon.
They're quite small and elusive.

It does have mass though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_rest_mass

The idea of an electron as a particle that travels through an conductor is a handy model but if you want to go nitpicking you have start with defining what you mean by "current".
This is also important if you want to make models of any HF electronics. Transmission lines, effects of GND planes striplines, etc.

At some point the model of particles moving though an conductor is not good enough anymore, and you have to start working with the electromagnetic field surrounding the electron. The electons themselves may not pass the isolation barrier in a capacitor, but the electric field surrounding them certainly does pass to the other side. Whether you want to call that "current" or "cheating" is moot to me.
TimFox:
My point of view for "normal conduction current" is that is a very slight tendency of an enormous number of conduction-band electrons in the metal to move in the direction of the arrow, superimposed on their normal random thermal motion.  The random component has zero mean, even though it has a macroscopic statistical deviation.
GlennSprigg:

--- Quote from: TimFox on October 26, 2021, 02:08:10 pm ---I stand by my comments above about the different kinds of electrical current.
(In theoretical physics, the term "current" is applied to other phenomena, as well, but we are all talking about electrical current here.)
Since matter in bulk is damned close to neutral (electrically), the effects of current are generally more important than those of charge, since a large current can flow in a neutral-charge conductor.
But through all of this is the requirement of continuity:  the current changes type or carrier from place to place, but always goes somewhere.

--- End quote ---

I DO generally get what you are saying, Tim.  And the point raised by 'Doctorandus_P' above, saying...
"and you have to start working with the electromagnetic field surrounding the electron", and...
"The electrons themselves may not pass the isolation barrier in a capacitor, but the electric field surrounding them certainly does",
is an interesting phenomena to think about!!! , but really only re-enforces what I'm talking about.

In your last statement, I highlighted in 'Red' what concerns/confuses me...  (not sure what you meant by 'Carrier' there too).
What about 'Eddy' Currents, flowing in a circular fashion within a piece of metal? But not really 'going' anywhere?   :scared:
I'm  not taking the word 'Current' in any other context though here... Not talking about Water-Current, or Air-Currents.  I am ONLY
talking about 'Electron-Flow' through 'Electrical Conductors'. And TODAY, we understand that 'Conventional' flow is not correct, and
that 'Current' in the manner for which 'I' speak, involves 'Electrons' from -ve to +ve.  However, even that pedantic Nomenclature is
not relevant, when referring to the lack of 'flow', across an insulating 'Dielectric'.  I don't care if they are called 'Electrons' or 'WTF's',
I can't understand the confusion about the 'Flow' being external in a circuit, and back to the other 'Side' !   :box:
Still love you though...  8)
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