Does This Audio MIcrophone Preamplifier Product Exist?

[EEVblog]

I asked this on the latest Amp Hour, does this product exist?

A single USB interface microphone pre-amplifier with the following:
- Compressor and De-esser controls
- 48 Phantom power
- Heaphone output that disables line output whne plugged in.
- balanced XLR line outputs for monitoring

Basically the same as my Rode AI-1 or Scarlett Solo but with a compressor and De-esser circuit as well.

I know you can combine products to do all this, but I'm after an all-in-one box.
Thinking about maybe designing one myself, because it just kinda peeves me off that such a thing might not exist.
Surely I can't be the only one that needs a USB microphone audio interface with real time analog compressor and de-esser controls to tweak your microphone audio?

[Muttley Snickers]

I know you can combine products to do all this, but I'm after an all-in-one box.

Just a suggestion, do any of the higher end Zoom or Tascam portable recorders offer these features in a single package?, they might be worth a look at anyway. I have a few digital audio recorders including Philips, Roland, Sony, Tascam and Zoom and each have slightly different attributes, I tend to use the Zoom more often than not. 

[EEVblog]

I know you can combine products to do all this, but I'm after an all-in-one box.

Just a suggestion, do any of the higher end Zoom or Tascam portable recorders offer these features in a single package?, they might be worth a look at anyway. I have a few digital audio recorders including Philips, Roland, Sony, Tascam and Zoom and each have slightly different attributes, I tend to use the Zoom more often than not.

Nope, not that I am aware of.

[borjam]

Complicated. As all of this stuff moves to the digital realm (with digital mixing consoles the typical analog outboard like dynamics processors and graphic EQs are tending to be phased out) you can only find kinda expensive options.

Have you considered using software? Most of this processing is being doing in software nowadays.

In the preamp camp you can find the dbx 286S, which is not expensive and ticks most of your boxes except for the digital output and the headphone jack. So you would still need an audio interface.

MOTU offer built in DSP in some audio interfaces like the Ultralite (two microphone preamps) but they don't include a deesser function. Maybe you can persuade them to add sidechain filtering to their compressor, though.

Universal Audio has a Thunderbolt interface with plugins but it's overkill.

There is a very expensive option, Metric Halo, which includes a signal processing engine that allows you to draw an arbitrary signal processing workflow with EQ and dynamics processing which makes it possible to implement a de-esser for instance. You can use a band pass filter feeding the compressor sidechain.

Mac only, the old ones are Firewire (but Metric Halo supports even their oldest products with new boards to use USB and Ethernet). An old ULN-2 would do the trick (two very good microphone preamps) but, again, Firewire unless you update it to "3d" and still Mac only.

Have you had a look at an Austalian manufacturer, Rode? Maybe overkill but the Rodecaster includes gate/eq/deesser/compressor. It's a full fledged mixer designed for podcasters and small broadcast stations.

They also have an application that works with their NT-USB Mini microphone and the Wireless Go II system that kinda does the same as a Rodecaster (in software).

I'll check some other options, but complicated.

[jim_griff]

While the DBX 286s is your closest competition in the marketplace for a single mic pre solution, it DOESN'T have a built-in USB audio interface. https://dbxpro.com/en/products/286s Linked it in purely for price comparison, in case you were wondering roughly what price a similar solution would be without an integrated USB interface.

I've only ever seen two alternative soluitions that have similar features to what you'd like:

CHEAPER: TC-Helicon GoXLR (aimed towards streamers / live broadcasts) - doesn't have balanced XLR out.
EXPENSIVE (example): MOTU 24Ai (aimed towards pro studios) - fully balanced, but very expensive and unnecessary for your line of work.

I'm guessing you want something with hardware controls (knobs/buttons) that is quick to set up and adjust? i.e. A no sh**s/giggles audio interface solution, with all features controlled via hardware knobs/buttons, and works straight out of the box. No fiddling with drivers, software mixers, etc.

I would actually love something like that, and would be willing to part with my cash if you could provide a solution like it. I'm sure many audio equipment vendors would be happy to sell whatever you produce, no matter how niche it may appear.
EDIT: What I mean is, perhaps a fully analog solution with knobs and all, but with a 2-channel USB audio interface built in.

[borjam]

True! I was checking TC Helicon's products and I missed the deesser on the GoXLR, I thought it just has compressor and noise gate.

Anyway, talk to Rode. Maybe they wish to take on TC Helicon which will surely suffer in the hands of "The Music Tribe".

And there's this option, maybe the best.

SSL has a special offer, their audio interfaces include the SSL Production Pack for free. Essentially you want VocalStrip 2, which would solve your problem but it is a plugin.

https://www.solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl2
https://www.solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl2-plus

https://store.solidstatelogic.com/products/ssl-native-vocalstrip-2

[jim_griff]

Hi Borjam. Apologies, I wasn't responding to your message before, but was still mentioning the DBX 286s. Total coincidence! Great minds think alike!

I have an SSL2+ for dedicated Windows audio to keep Windows from using my audio interface and/or the on-board audio. Great interface, but unfortunately the FX are run via VST plugins, so they need a dedicated host to run them through. They can be run through DaVinci and other NLEs as plugins on audio tracks/channels, but I would hazard a guess Dave wants an all-in-one hardware solution.

I still can't think of any all-in-one solution on the market that fits the bill. Would be great to have something like it, though. I'd certainly buy one that has all the features he mentioned, if it existed. Would fit the bill for me for certain projects.

[borjam]

Hi Borjam. Apologies, I wasn't responding to your message before, but was still mentioning the DBX 286s. Total coincidence! Great minds think alike!

Yeah, my lawyer is sending you papers soon!

I have an SSL2+ for dedicated Windows audio to keep Windows from using my audio interface and/or the on-board audio. Great interface, but unfortunately the FX are run via VST plugins, so they need a dedicated host to run them through. They can be run through DaVinci and other NLEs as plugins on audio tracks/channels, but I would hazard a guess Dave wants an all-in-one hardware solution.

I still can't think of any all-in-one solution on the market that fits the bill. Would be great to have something like it, though. I'd certainly buy one that has all the features he mentioned, if it existed. Would fit the bill for me for certain projects.

I am completely lost about the Windows options. I have always been a Unix guy, so the modern Unix workstation is a Mac. There are plenty of programs that can do live audio using plugins. Plugins are not just useful for editing. You can even get away using Au Lab, a development tool.

No idea about the Windows situation, though. But assuming that it exists (it should!) a proper podcasting/live audio app capable of using VST plugins will work.

Anyway we gave him three options Now, time for him to reach for Rode and tickle them to launch a proper product competing against TC Helicon!

[EEVblog]

Complicated. As all of this stuff moves to the digital realm (with digital mixing consoles the typical analog outboard like dynamics processors and graphic EQs are tending to be phased out) you can only find kinda expensive options.

Have you considered using software? Most of this processing is being doing in software nowadays.

In the preamp camp you can find the dbx 286S, which is not expensive and ticks most of your boxes except for the digital output and the headphone jack. So you would still need an audio interface.

MOTU offer built in DSP in some audio interfaces like the Ultralite (two microphone preamps) but they don't include a deesser function. Maybe you can persuade them to add sidechain filtering to their compressor, though.

Universal Audio has a Thunderbolt interface with plugins but it's overkill.

There is a very expensive option, Metric Halo, which includes a signal processing engine that allows you to draw an arbitrary signal processing workflow with EQ and dynamics processing which makes it possible to implement a de-esser for instance. You can use a band pass filter feeding the compressor sidechain.

Mac only, the old ones are Firewire (but Metric Halo supports even their oldest products with new boards to use USB and Ethernet). An old ULN-2 would do the trick (two very good microphone preamps) but, again, Firewire unless you update it to "3d" and still Mac only.

Have you had a look at an Austalian manufacturer, Rode? Maybe overkill but the Rodecaster includes gate/eq/deesser/compressor. It's a full fledged mixer designed for podcasters and small broadcast stations.

They also have an application that works with their NT-USB Mini microphone and the Wireless Go II system that kinda does the same as a Rodecaster (in software).

I'll check some other options, but complicated.

Yes I know about those solutions, this is why I specifically asked if a simplier all in one hardware solution exists.

[EEVblog]

SSL has a special offer, their audio interfaces include the SSL Production Pack for free. Essentially you want VocalStrip 2, which would solve your problem but it is a plugin.

Yeah, I don't want software solutions, I'm specifically interested if an all-in-one hardware solution exists.
I've asked thsi a few times now, and no one has pointed one out, so I'm guessing the answer is no. This thread was my last ditch effort to find one if it exists.

[optoisolated]

Reach out to Louis Rossman and see if he has any all in one suggestions. From what I've seen though he tends to favour software DSPs with a decent ADC. Also try SpectreSoundStudios as well. He reviews a lot of that sort of equipment and may be able to point you in the right direction.

That all said, all in one solutions are likely to be a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none scenarios from what I've seen.

[borjam]

Found one!

It lacks a headphone output and I'm sure you won't like the valve thing, but it has gate, compressor, de-esser, phantom of course...


https://artproaudio.com/product/voicechannel-tube-channel-strip-with-digital-outs/

[BrianHG]

Found one!

It lacks a headphone output and I'm sure you won't like the valve thing, but it has gate, compressor, de-esser, phantom of course...


https://artproaudio.com/product/voicechannel-tube-channel-strip-with-digital-outs/

I don't know.  Mr. Carlson Lab channel deliberately uses a mic with a tube preamp for his Youtube channel and I like relax listening to his well balanced audio in his restoration broadcasts.  (Ok, I know the tube doesn't have much to do with it, but I cant complain about the sound quality...)

I guess what I am saying is what does it sound like and do I need to worry about replacing the damn tube 2 decades from now...

[borjam]

Tubes add some nice sounding distortion, nothing bad of course!

[BrianHG]

Tubes add some nice sounding distortion, nothing bad of course!

Proper tube design should not distort the audio.  Withing the proper specified audio levels, it should be as good as any modern IC amplifier.  Where the tube gets it's characteristics from is when you exceed the linear proper audio level region.  It has a soft rounded approach which would usually end up being harsh audio level clipping with modern semiconductor op-amp designs.  If the mic pre-amp's tube design was used to deal with sudden pop from inconsistent loud audio sources in aid of the audio limiter function, done properly this can be a plus.  But, I don't think we need to go to this extreme for youtube speech audio.  Such a preamp targeting a tube in it's auto-gain level section is better suited for recording for example, a grand piano where a sudden heavy key 'fortissimo' stroke can fire out over 95 db while trying to boost prior 'pianissimo' playing way down below 50db.

[Bassman59]

Tubes add some nice sounding distortion, nothing bad of course!

A good tube audio design doesn't add any distortion.

A bad tube audio design adds distortion.

[Bassman59]

Reach out to Louis Rossman and see if he has any all in one suggestions. From what I've seen though he tends to favour software DSPs with a decent ADC. Also try SpectreSoundStudios as well. He reviews a lot of that sort of equipment and may be able to point you in the right direction.

Since when is Rossman now an audio expert?

[BrianHG]

Sadly, the best audio limiter for speech and youtube video I've found was the original one built into windows.

Under 'Speaker Properties / Enhancements', Loudness Equalization, set it's settings to 'Short' and everything you hear on youtube comes out at 1 perfect volume.  Even watching movies with it on during the middle of the night makes the speech hear-able at 1 level even with surrounding music and effects also being moved down to that 1 level.

Note that some custom sound-card drivers remove the smart Microsoft one/version and I recommend disabling them for the default Microsoft sound drivers just to get this one original feature as it is so good.

If I were ever to make a youtube channel, I would manually process my audio track though this processor before publishing as for when it comes to speech, all others pale in comparison.

[Bassman59]

SSL has a special offer, their audio interfaces include the SSL Production Pack for free. Essentially you want VocalStrip 2, which would solve your problem but it is a plugin.

Yeah, I don't want software solutions, I'm specifically interested if an all-in-one hardware solution exists.
I've asked thsi a few times now, and no one has pointed one out, so I'm guessing the answer is no. This thread was my last ditch effort to find one if it exists.

Other than that ART product, what you want does not exist. Almost. Can I suggest two pieces?

Look at the Mackie ProFX10v3. It's a mixer with a 2-out (to the computer)/4-in (from the computer) USB audio interface built in. It has four mic inputs with phantom power. I bought one for my kid so he could do remote school as well as recording his violin practices and it works well.

It has the feature you need: the four mic input channels each have insert jacks so you can patch in an analog compressor or de-esser. You can probably find dbx and Drawmer compressors for pennies.

So yeah, not "all in one," but it will cost you a whole lot less than anything you'll build yourself for a one-off.

[Bassman59]

Sadly, the best audio limiter for speech and youtube video I've found was the original one built into windows.

While doing remote-learning last year, my kid (then a 6th-grader!!!) had to prepare short presentations with voice-overs. I recorded his voice using a CAD E-100 mic with pop-stopper into a Mackie 1402VLZ3 which fed converters I designed. I recorded right into Logic.

After recording his voice I used one of the standard compressor plug-ins for some squeeze, same things I use when mixing down songs. It's just a matter of getting the right settings, which is easy if you have any experience in using compression.

It didn't hurt that I taught him to stay on-mic and keep the distance between his mouth and the mic constant. He wore headphones so he could hear how proximity effect made his voice deeper as he moved in closer. (I'm pretty sure none of the other kids in his class had a parent who was a touring sound mixer, because I know all of the sound guys in town and their kids ...)

Of course I high-passed the audio -- and the high-pass is the real secret.

[John B]

Yes I know about those solutions, this is why I specifically asked if a simplier all in one hardware solution exists.

Even the MOTU Ultralite won't tick your boxes. You're probably not going to find a hardware switch solution for muting the outputs when plugging in headphones. I can't even think of an interface that has some plug detection mechanism.

I wouldn't recommend a software solution for you either. I do use a thunderbolt interface with software FX and I can get 6ms round trip latency, which is good enough for realtime, and does everything you could want, but it's not a "one button - everything on" solution, not to mention pricey.

The best idea is to split the FX from the interface. Plenty of interfaces have compression but not de essers that I can think of. A separate multi-fx unit will provide "realtime" FX, and provide enough flexibility with tonal shaping. Even if you found a all-in-one solution, you would probably find the tonal control to be lacking, hence why it's better to go for a dedicated FX unit. When you get really fussy, even the multi-FX are a compromise and you get individual FX!

A vocal specific rack unit would probably be the best starting point, one with compression and de essing, something like a dbx 286 or similar brand. You could either plug the XLR mic directly into the unit, then route from the rack unit to the interface, or run an FX loop from an interface with enough ins/outs.

Some of the more modern interfaces, take MOTU for example, use a web based interface for mix control and allow for more flexible remote control of volume and other parameters. You may be able to work out an easy mute/unmute system for your outputs.

So lastly your DIY suggestion.....probably the least efficient way unless you're making it for the purpose of your own edification, or your required solution is really, really specific (which it isn't, the interface + vocal rack unit will work). Check out this project involving multi fx based around a pi: https://www.treefallsound.com/

It's on my list of things to do.

By the way I don't understand not wanting to combine units. Everything you're asking for will fit into a 2 rack unit case, you can have it all connected in the case and will require minimal setup time if you move the case around.

[optoisolated]

Since when is Rossman now an audio expert?

I didn't say he was an audio expert. I suggested Dave reach out to him as they already have a rapport, and Louis worked in the industry for several years and has experience with audio equipment.

[optoisolated]

I'll start by saying that this is overkill, as I'm not sure a single channel ADC/DAC exists which also has noise gates, compressor and de-esser. That said, for not a ridiculous amount of money you can just get a Rodecaster Pro.

https://rode.com/interfaces-mixers/rodecaster-pro

It's overkill in that its deigned for live podcasting (4 preamp mic inputs) but it does have headphone/monitor outputs and built-in de-esser and noise gates.
You can buy them for around $700-$800 Australian.

RodeCaster Pro Effects Processing - https://www.rode.com/interfaces-mixers/rodecaster-pro/learning-hub/using-advanced-processing-and-effects
RodeCaster Pro Speaker/Headphones - https://www.rode.com/interfaces-mixers/rodecaster-pro/learning-hub/using-headphones-and-speakers
RodeCaster Pro Microphone Support - https://www.rode.com/interfaces-mixers/rodecaster-pro/learning-hub/setting-up-microphone-channels
* Note it has a preconfigured profile for the Rode NT1-A

Based on your list:

• A single USB interface microphone pre-amplifier - Yes
• Compressor and De-esser controls - Yes
• 48 Phantom power - Yes
• Heaphone output that disables line output whne plugged in. - Sort of... see below
  
  • Automatically Mute Outputs – Automatically mute the output whenever a channel slider is turned up, ensuring you don’t experience feedback while using monitors.
  • It does have separate headphone/monitor volume control knobs though.
• balanced XLR line outputs for monitoring - Balanced TRS outputs

It is overkill, but it looks like it will do what you need.

[borjam]

Tubes add some nice sounding distortion, nothing bad of course!

Proper tube design should not distort the audio.  Withing the proper specified audio levels, it should be as good as any modern IC amplifier. 

Define "proper". An amplifier designed for music (especially when it takes part in the recording/production process) is not an instrumentation amplifier. It is a legitimate artistic decision to add distortion, equalize or whatnot.

In this kind of equipment that is intentional, hence proper.

[Brumby]

Since when is Rossman now an audio expert?

I didn't say he was an audio expert. I suggested Dave reach out to him as they already have a rapport, and Louis worked in the industry for several years and has experience with audio equipment.

This is what I understood.

You don't have to be an audio expert to be able to make suggestions.  Assessing the quality and usability of a suggestion is a different ball game.