Author Topic: Does your corporation throw away useful stuff? How often and how much?  (Read 4703 times)

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Offline WarhawkTopic starter

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Guys, I simply can't get over it. My corporation (+30k employees) just threw away a whole bunch of test equipment.
This includes 5GHz R&S spectrum analyzers, 1GHz Agilent oscilloscopes, Weller soldering stations that were "toxic" because somebody used a leaded solder, 6 GHz active probes, etc. etc.  It goes to the same trash bin as three to four years old laptops etc.
My colleagues and I tried to officially rescue some equipment but it was impossible. We practically hit the wall everywhere we asked. Arguments were silly. Something like "confidential data loss prevention prohibits us giving you the scope because it has a memory onboard". Other people claimed that the equipment has already zero value therefore it can't be sold. I mean just process things. Nothing that would even make sense.
I do not necessarily need these things. My lab is complete but I would love to see local hackerspaces, universities, or fellow hobbyists using it. Nope. But next year our PR team will beg for money for the local orphanage to "build the brand of care". We will spam customers with useless newsletters and will give away useless flyers on the Electronika fair.

And this happens every so often.

$%^& you my corporation!

How is it with you and your employer? Does the reduce/re-use/recycle work with your company or is it just a
 PR "statement of being environmental friendly" on LinkedIn?

Am I wrong? What to I miss?
 
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Offline Tomorokoshi

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A = Does your boss have any technical hobbies?

B = Does your bosses boss have any technical hobbies?

If !(A OR B) then there is no hope. They simply won't have the imagination or inspiration to understand the intrinsic non-monetary value of equipment like that, along with the goodwill that would be generated by distributing it properly.

I've seen it in both situations, where they are either passively supporting it or actively blocking it. It gets tricky when some in the organization understand it, and some don't.

A very frustrating example is when an executive secretary threw out shelves of books without asking anyone in engineering if they wanted anything. I was able to get only few items that managed to wind up at the top of the bins.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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I've already run into similar situations.

One thing to consider is that for a company, donating equipement to employees may have legal implications that most employers don't want to have to deal with (even for amortized gear). So yeah, this is crazy, but throwing it away is often much simpler.
 

Offline daqq

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My current employer never did this, once a desirable device (computer, measurement tech, whatever) was intended to be thrown out, it was generally snatched within hours. There are also options to buy. The confidentiality issue was solved by removing the disk, or by scrubbing it hard.

Quote
Something like "confidential data loss prevention prohibits us giving you the scope because it has a memory onboard".
Well, if it goes to a professional recycler, the odds are good that it wont hit the market. If the recycler is less professional, you'll find it on ebay or something similar soon enough. Let's just say I know a guy.
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Offline m98

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What kinds of confidential Information could you possibly store on the internal memory of an oscilloscope or spectrum analyzer? Software options?
 

Offline rf-messkopf

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Depending on where you live it may also be for tax reasons that employers cannot give away things to employees easily. At least in Germany test equipment that is given away to employees or sold below market value would count as a benefit in money's worth, which would be subject to income tax. Large companies don't have a process for that, and would not risk being accused of tax evasion, so that the equipment rather goes to the dump. Usually the only chance is to get these thing out of the trash yourself while your boss is deliberately not looking at it. That is more likely to happen in small companies.

What kinds of confidential Information could you possibly store on the internal memory of an oscilloscope or spectrum analyzer? Software options?

Modern Scopes, SAs, VNAs, etc., contain a PC platform with a hard drive. I have found a lot of old data (screenshots, measured data, limit lines, etc.) on second hand equipment that I've bought, in one case very obviously from a large and well known German electronics company. :) But probably not very useful for spying.
 

Offline wn1fju

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My "corporation" was funded by one of the large USA government three-letter organizations.  At my most recent security investigation, I casually mentioned how we often threw out old, obsolete small parts such as 7400/4000 DIPs and loose leaded resistors/caps/transistors, etc.  I told them that sometimes, when I was involved with putting the items into the garbage, that I would keep a few small boxes in a cabinet in our lab because one of my hobbies was fixing old test equipment and once in a while some of the obsolete stuff was hard to find from the usual distributors.  Therefore, I would help myself to a part if it was in the cabinet.

Wrong thing to admit!!!  I found myself back in the investigator's office for further explanation.  I tried to convey that we were talking about parts that were worth anywhere from one cent to one dollar, but that didn't help matters.  I was told in no uncertain terms that if our company threw a file cabinet into the dumpster (the investigator actually pointed to the file cabinet in the office while he was saying this), I would not be entitled to take it.

Bottom line:  I was yelled at, my boss was yelled at, our facilities manager was yelled at, etc.  Our company had to issue a memo clarifying the issue.

Bottom, bottom line:  I kept my mouth shut next time!
 

Offline james_s

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When I worked at a place that did hardware they occasionally threw all kinds of interesting stuff into the e-waste bin, although nothing as valuable as that. From an official standpoint they couldn't give me permission to take things, but the IT manager and I had a sort of informal don't ask-don't tell agreement. He'd turn a blind eye just so long as I didn't leave a mess.

Personally I think throwing out good usable equipment like that is criminal and I refuse to give companies I know are doing that sort of thing any money. I'd encourage anyone to salvage what they can, but absolutely don't tell anyone about it.
 

Offline c64

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Guys, I simply can't get over it. My corporation (+30k employees) just threw away a whole bunch of test equipment.
This includes 5GHz R&S spectrum analyzers, 1GHz Agilent oscilloscopes, Weller soldering stations that were "toxic" because somebody used a leaded solder, 6 GHz active probes, etc. etc.  It goes to the same trash bin as three to four years old laptops etc.
Tell us the location of your dumpster  :)
 

Offline 25 CPS

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It’s changed several times at the place I’m at.  The guy who hired me gave me an old scope and it was written off and proper authorize to remove paperwork was drawn up with two copies.   One was turned in at the security desk on the way out the building and the other was for me to keep for my records.  I’ve kept it in the robe pouch as a keepsake of its own.

Not too long after that, there was a corporate policy change and a contract was signed with an e-waste company.  I think the phrase “sweetheart deal” could be used interchangeably with the word contract in this case because they got exclusive rights to all of the company’s e-waste just as a massive downsizing happened along with a real estate and equipment purge.  Everything had to go through the e-waste company.  We started seeing our equipment and spare parts on eBay at gigantically inflated prices.  I filled in at one of our smaller sites and saw a room full of vintage Tek and HP gear waiting for their shipper to come and collect it all.  Eventually one of the guys there started quietly giving stuff to people who wanted it rather than see it scrapped for parts.  I ended up with a machine from there that way.

I saw on older HP oscillator sitting on a bench at the main site and asked if it was getting junked.  The answer was yes so I asked if I could have it.  The answer was yes if the guys boss said yes, which he did, so it came home with me.  Then, total policy reversal which makes me wonder if the contract with the e-waste company came to its end, they had this internal rummage sale and people bought stuff but really, after 10 years of the e-waste company cleaning the place out of all the good retired equipment, all that’s left is the stuff that’s still in use and table scraps.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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When I worked at a place that did hardware they occasionally threw all kinds of interesting stuff into the e-waste bin, although nothing as valuable as that. From an official standpoint they couldn't give me permission to take things, but the IT manager and I had a sort of informal don't ask-don't tell agreement. He'd turn a blind eye just so long as I didn't leave a mess.

Personally I think throwing out good usable equipment like that is criminal and I refuse to give companies I know are doing that sort of thing any money. I'd encourage anyone to salvage what they can, but absolutely don't tell anyone about it.
Informal agreements are great but leave you vulnerable when the shit hits the fan. Suddenly no one knows about any agreement and your job is on the line. Someone may be looking for an easy and cheap way to get rid of you at some point. Getting rehired after getting caught stealing isn't going to be fun either. It's a devil's dilemma as simply throwing out good quality kit feels criminal in its own right. I'm not just talking about the hoarder's, I mean collector's point of view but also from the point of view of a society with what ultimately are limited resources. Tax rules do seem to encourage this kind of behaviour, unfortunately.
 
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Offline james_s

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Informal agreements are great but leave you vulnerable when the shit hits the fan. Suddenly no one knows about any agreement and your job is on the line. Someone may be looking for an easy and cheap way to get rid of you at some point. Getting rehired after getting caught stealing isn't going to be fun either. It's a devil's dilemma as simply throwing out good quality kit feels criminal in its own right. I'm not just talking about the hoarder's, I mean collector's point of view but also from the point of view of a society with what ultimately are limited resources. Tax rules do seem to encourage this kind of behaviour, unfortunately.


Of course that could happen, but life is full of calculated risks, I chose to take that risk and it paid off. If they wanted to get rid of me they wouldn't have to accuse me of stealing, my state has at-will employment, for better or worse the employee or the employer can terminate the relationship at any time for any reason. So yeah, I could get fired for "stealing" things or I could get fired for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person or because they don't like the color of shirt I'm wearing or the way I comb my hair. I'm not opposed to taking a few risks to acquire interesting things. Many people risk a lot more for income of one form or another, there are quite a few jobs where a significant number of people are killed, worst case for me was getting fired, which never happened.
 

Offline Wojciech Krolopp

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It's not exactly grabbing e-waste but few times when staying late hours at the office I opened up my coworkers computers and replaced parts with cheaper ones. I bought some cheap Pentiums and swapped them in place of Core i7. Then I sold those i7 and made some neat profit. Code monkeys did not even notice :-DD Engineering salary is a joke anyway so might as well make some money on the side.
 

Offline m98

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Then I sold those i7 and made some neat profit. Code monkeys did not even notice :-DD Engineering salary is a joke anyway so might as well make some money on the side.
Really hope this is just a bad trolling attempt, and not you confessing to crimes on the internet.
 
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Offline WarhawkTopic starter

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Guys, I simply can't get over it. My corporation (+30k employees) just threw away a whole bunch of test equipment.
This includes 5GHz R&S spectrum analyzers, 1GHz Agilent oscilloscopes, Weller soldering stations that were "toxic" because somebody used a leaded solder, 6 GHz active probes, etc. etc.  It goes to the same trash bin as three to four years old laptops etc.
Tell us the location of your dumpster  :)
I've just measured on googlemaps and it is 16,309.98km from Sydney Central Train station.  ::)

Offline nfmax

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It's when you see stuff you have personally developed (and been granted a patent for) being trashed, because the whole project is dropped as it doesn't fit in with the product line roadmap of the latest manager to be rotated in for a two year stint, that it really grates!
 

Offline WarhawkTopic starter

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Then I sold those i7 and made some neat profit. Code monkeys did not even notice :-DD Engineering salary is a joke anyway so might as well make some money on the side.
Really hope this is just a bad trolling attempt, and not you confessing to crimes on the internet.

I am sure this is trolling. Especially with this nickname. Nobody is that stupid.  :)

Offline WarhawkTopic starter

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Informal agreements are great but leave you vulnerable when the shit hits the fan. Suddenly no one knows about any agreement and your job is on the line. Someone may be looking for an easy and cheap way to get rid of you at some point. Getting rehired after getting caught stealing isn't going to be fun either. It's a devil's dilemma as simply throwing out good quality kit feels criminal in its own right. I'm not just talking about the hoarder's, I mean collector's point of view but also from the point of view of a society with what ultimately are limited resources. Tax rules do seem to encourage this kind of behaviour, unfortunately.


Of course that could happen, but life is full of calculated risks, I chose to take that risk and it paid off. If they wanted to get rid of me they wouldn't have to accuse me of stealing, my state has at-will employment, for better or worse the employee or the employer can terminate the relationship at any time for any reason. So yeah, I could get fired for "stealing" things or I could get fired for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person or because they don't like the color of shirt I'm wearing or the way I comb my hair. I'm not opposed to taking a few risks to acquire interesting things. Many people risk a lot more for income of one form or another, there are quite a few jobs where a significant number of people are killed, worst case for me was getting fired, which never happened.

Hiring and firing people in the U.S. is insanely easy. Here in Europe It is extremely difficult to get rid of an employee after he or she finishes the probation period (typ. 3-6 months). Even dealing with a bad performer is not easy. Investigating the attendance system, internet usage or proving you took a pencil home is a dirty way to do it.
 

Offline Rerouter

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Depends on the business, my dads old company had a rule that if it was in the dumpster until an hour after open of business the next day it was up for grabs, the truck would usually come the hour after that, and it was there compromise in case anything important accidentally got binned, someone would notice it and report it.
They also had them sign a waiver that if they wanted to be insured against injuries while rummaging they needed to have a confined space permit first, which I don't exactly agree with, but I see why they implemented it.

 My own work doesn't really every throw out anything of value, its usually 3rd hand or entry level gear, and when things break we repair it, well past where the sunken cost fallacy begins to apply.

My mothers old work was odd, they kept buying good things then forgetting where they stored them so they bought them again, led to a few fun toys when I was young, don't know the whole story about them though.
 

Offline c64

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Tell us the location of your dumpster  :)
I've just measured on googlemaps and it is 16,309.98km from Sydney Central Train station.  ::)
I'm in Melbourne LOL
 

Offline ivaylo

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These “my corporation/government/whoever is stupid and I am not” sentiments are pretty naive. There are all sorts of legal, tax, compliance, etc considerations which are someone’s job and a part of why that organization is successful. There could be malicious intent or incompetence of course, but in the West that seems to be more of the exception.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Guys, I simply can't get over it. My corporation (+30k employees) just threw away a whole bunch of test equipment.
This includes 5GHz R&S spectrum analyzers, 1GHz Agilent oscilloscopes

 :o
 

Offline daqq

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Interestingly enough, many devices have a 'sanitation' feature, where all potentially confidential data is cleansed by a few simple click. See: https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Truevolt_DMM_Product_Declassification_Security.pdf
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Offline Zucca

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All the useful disposed waste (from work or not) that fit my backpack goes home with me.
I do not care about rules, it is just common sense. It's part of my italian DNA.

Yes, I proudly confess my crime here.

Warhawk: It broke my heart to read this.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 07:08:28 am by Zucca »
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Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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Offline brabus

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Very sad to admit, but I fully understand this.

You know, things work out as long as people use their brains. But NO, people ALWAYS have to piss out of the pot.

What happens:
- Employee brings home a cool 1GHz oscilloscope straight from the "garbage" bin
- Notices a small dent on the cover, calls Agilent for a warranty repair/substitution
- Wants a full set of probes, for free of course
- ...
- The company gains quickly bad reputation from Agilent, for so many warranty claims and free extra required.

Sorry, but: NO. No matter how valuable it can be, trash goes in the trash bin. Full stop.



This reminds me of my experience in the automotive business. Well known german brand, using ~100 vehicles for each project as test vehicles. Brand new cars, often with ALL extras to try them out. Many of them were used for a few hundred kilometers or so. Once upon a time, as an employee, you could buy those cars at the end of the project. The bargain was astonishing, you could get a €80,000 car for €20,000 or less, with maybe 3000 km on the clock.
What happened: people being people. Shortly before the end of the project, project members started ordering brand new engines to put in the cars, full brake sets, full interior reupholstery, free expensive extras and so on.
As soon as the company noticed the regular steep increase of project costs toward the end, they banned the benefit. ALL cars will be DESTROYED at the end of every project. Full stop.

Now, what to say: thanks people for being people. |O
 


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