General > General Technical Chat

Don't keep fully charged Li-Ion in long term storage, they tend to bulge

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Bud:

--- Quote from: tooki on January 18, 2023, 07:05:39 pm ---.. if a device comes in with a swollen battery, they won’t touch the battery in-store, and instead replace the device and then refurbish the swollen device in a repair depot.

--- End quote ---
That is just "think of the children" mentality.

james_s:

--- Quote from: Bud on January 18, 2023, 09:09:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on January 18, 2023, 07:05:39 pm ---.. if a device comes in with a swollen battery, they won’t touch the battery in-store, and instead replace the device and then refurbish the swollen device in a repair depot.

--- End quote ---
That is just "think of the children" mentality.

--- End quote ---

It is a bit silly. Just drain the battery, a battery in a low state of charge, whether swollen or not is pretty inert.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: tooki on January 18, 2023, 07:05:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: RoGeorge on January 18, 2023, 09:50:56 am ---As for the other Li-Ion batteries leftovers from mobile phones, if I will ever reuse them, will let them bulged as they are.  No need to deflate since the DIY enclosures can be made big enough.

--- End quote ---
Are you insane?!?
--- End quote ---

He got warned enough, I think. Now he mentioned a pretty low-capacity battery, so the risk was minimal in terms of fire. The nasty chemicals, OTOH, is something else.


--- Quote from: tooki on January 18, 2023, 07:05:39 pm ---A swollen lipo pouch belongs in exactly one place: the recycling bin. Continuing to use it is asking for trouble.

--- End quote ---

Yes, but not in the general trash bin, please. This is dangerous and illegal in most places. Dispose of it in appropriate bins.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: james_s on January 18, 2023, 09:02:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 17, 2023, 08:37:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: MadScientist on January 17, 2023, 05:38:37 pm ---Very low charge rates should be avoided , ie below 0.2 C as  very low  charging rates encourages SEI layer growth and hence leads to battery degradation.  Chargers at 0.5c then stop charging once full no float etc needed. Track SOC band restart charging at a point

--- End quote ---

In my experience mentioned earlier, a combination of a 0.1C charge current and automatically recharging the battery, keeping it at 100% most of the time, was a sure recipe for dangerous bulging and killing the batteries.

Thus, any UPS system based on Li-ion batteries should definitely be designed appropriately, and there's little surprise lead-acid batteries are still popular in UPSs.

--- End quote ---

Regular Li-ion is a poor choice for UPS duty. LiFePO4 is a much better choice, they are way more robust and tolerate fully charged storage well. They're a lot harder to make catch fire too.The energy density is lower which limits their use in portable electronics and flying toys but they do get used in power tools.

--- End quote ---

Definitely. I would never use Li-ion for back-up power purposes, even for relatively low capacities, after this unfortunate design.
But we can still see back-up systems with Li-ion batteries, and see people asking about that on forums on a regular basis, so I think it's worth talking about it.

And LiFePO4 is much, much better indeed. That's what I would recommend as well.

james_s:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 18, 2023, 09:17:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on January 18, 2023, 07:05:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: RoGeorge on January 18, 2023, 09:50:56 am ---As for the other Li-Ion batteries leftovers from mobile phones, if I will ever reuse them, will let them bulged as they are.  No need to deflate since the DIY enclosures can be made big enough.

--- End quote ---
Are you insane?!?
--- End quote ---

He got warned enough, I think. Now he mentioned a pretty low-capacity battery, so the risk was minimal in terms of fire. The nasty chemicals, OTOH, is something else.


--- Quote from: tooki on January 18, 2023, 07:05:39 pm ---A swollen lipo pouch belongs in exactly one place: the recycling bin. Continuing to use it is asking for trouble.

--- End quote ---

Yes, but not in the general trash bin, please. This is dangerous and illegal in most places. Dispose of it in appropriate bins.

--- End quote ---

It's always been accepted practice in the USA to discharge pouch cells and throw them in the regular trash, I'm not aware of any regulations against doing that.

Those little ones that are under about 500mAh are pretty safe. I have burned up a worn out one on purpose before to see what would happen. It wasn't very exciting, it just puffed way up, melted a hole and then there was a flame much like from a candle that came out for a few seconds and then it sat there smoking.

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