Poll

Has the thread on dowsing changed your point of view?

Yes, I thought dowsing worked, but now I'm not convinced it does.
1 (1.3%)
Yes, I thought dowsing didn't work and now I think it does.
4 (5.1%)
No, I always thought dowsing was woo woo and still do.
64 (82.1%)
No, I believed dowsing worked before and still do.
9 (11.5%)

Total Members Voted: 78

Author Topic: Dowsing  (Read 6262 times)

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Offline floobydust

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2017, 10:41:58 pm »
Just try it, for the lolz
Take a couple coat hangers or #14AWG wire bent and put them in both hands and go for a walk.

I thought dowsing was a load of bullshit, and so I thought, well, I'll just try it.
To my surprise I noticed the coat hangers can subtlety move and be consistent about something, that is they behave the same over the same spot in a room.
The stupid wires will move and cross over each other, like an "X".

I did more research and they think it's ideomotor movements, or a person tilting/leaning to one side causing the wires to rotate. It's very low friction.
-> Subconscious mind tilting your wrists causes the wires to rotate.

I still think dowsing is a load of bullshit, but the dowsing rods can be made to move and it sure is weird seeing that.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2017, 10:44:57 pm »
I love how this thread is quickly becoming a copy of the other one. Now it's two turd tornadoes!
 

Online Gyro

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2017, 10:59:59 pm »
Well isn't that exactly what you expected when you set it up?  :palm:  >:(
Chris

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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2017, 11:05:38 pm »
Well isn't that exactly what you expected when you set it up?  :palm:  >:(
I guess you're not talking to me?
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2017, 11:48:29 pm »
Quote
If you feel that strongly about it, then you're always free to start your own poll!

Not on your life, I'm not propagating this folly any further!

Just be aware that any poll without any sort of 'null' option can't be statistically valid, and is as a result, pointless!

P.S.
Quote
What about those who may have not changed their view on dowsing and think discussing it is a waste of time?

Yes, that will do nicely! (you can even leave out the second half if you want  :))

That's not a null option, which would be more along the lines of "I don't know whether dowsing works or not and I'm not sure whether my viewpoint has shifted significantly or not"
 

Offline VK5RC

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2017, 12:45:56 am »
An interesting survey - from my understanding "logical" thought is often rarely that - often a rationalisation of what you believed/wanted in the first place. Polarisation or entrenchment of opinion often results from these topics. I recall a study  of timing within the central nervous system showing emotional areas (Limbic) light up well before rational (Frontal) areas in decision making. So if you want to get someone to change their mind offer sex, food or money! HiHi.
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2017, 05:00:03 am »
The results of this poll are not surprising in any way I am afraid. This is the same old tired story of those who believe will not be swayed by one argument. It sometimes takes many times confronting sacred beliefs until the person starts to actually think about their position. It can take many pokes or prods until someone starts to even want to think differently, These kinds of debates rarely change a person who is entrenched. It is usually when a person is starting to question their beliefs that they will actually listen opposing views.

The fact that our conversation has actually made a person think is a good thing and why I bother with this BS.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 08:29:56 pm by Lightages »
 

Online Gyro

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2017, 09:28:58 am »
Well isn't that exactly what you expected when you set it up?  :palm:  >:(
I guess you're not talking to me?

Oops, sorry Mr. Scram.  :-[
Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 
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Offline HalFET

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2017, 09:32:57 am »
Dowsed my way to option 3  :-DD
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2017, 07:33:43 am »
I always figured it was woo woo but I would be genuinely curious to be proven wrong and be explained how/why it works. 
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2017, 07:52:19 am »
I always figured it was woo woo but I would be genuinely curious to be proven wrong and be explained how/why it works.
This is apparently impossible. You're either convinced it works, or you're not open minded or a pseudo-skeptic  ::)
 

Offline gocemk

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2017, 08:07:47 am »
If you want to participate in this poll, please read the first five or so pages, of the thread linked below:

Sorry, I made it as far as the mention of a divining rod.

 :-DD
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2017, 09:00:15 am »
So far three out of 49 have changed their opinion. Interestingly two out of three have changed their view in favour of dowsing. I wonder whether it's because the proponents of dowsing have made a more compelling argument or if it's out of sympathy, as they might appear to have been ganged up on?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2017, 09:14:42 am »
So far three out of 49 have changed their opinion. Interestingly two out of three have changed their view in favour of dowsing. I wonder whether it's because the proponents of dowsing have made a more compelling argument or if it's out of sympathy, as they might appear to have been ganged up on?
That surprised me too.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2017, 12:36:11 am »
So far three out of 49 have changed their opinion. Interestingly two out of three have changed their view in favour of dowsing. I wonder whether it's because the proponents of dowsing have made a more compelling argument or if it's out of sympathy, as they might appear to have been ganged up on?
That surprised me too.
It just goes to show that being logical and rational doesn't always convince people of anything.
 

Offline hermit

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2017, 02:49:18 am »
So far three out of 49 have changed their opinion. Interestingly two out of three have changed their view in favour of dowsing. I wonder whether it's because the proponents of dowsing have made a more compelling argument or if it's out of sympathy, as they might appear to have been ganged up on?
Or because you can't see who ticked what box?  Some software forums let you choose to show who voted what.  This is the internet.  You expect honest answers to an anonymous poll?
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2017, 10:32:15 am »
I do not see all valid answers offered in poll. Variants imply beliefs, not knowledge. Perhaps need study a little:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism

Quote
Empiricism is a theory that states that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience.[1] It is one of several views of epistemology, the study of human knowledge, along with rationalism and skepticism. Empiricism emphasizes the role of empirical evidence in the formation of ideas, over the idea of innate ideas or traditions;[2]

As first step from dark ages practicing empiricism may suffice.




 

Offline Tepe

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2017, 10:55:09 am »
I do not see all valid answers offered in poll.
The poll contains the four possible variations of believed dowsing works/doesn't work before/after the discussion in the thread.
ceterum censeo systemd-inem esse delendam
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2017, 01:54:27 pm »
I hoped an anonymous poll would yield more honest answers, than one where everyone is named.

It's not practical to list all possible view points, as there will be hundreds. The main purpose of the poll was to determine if the debate actually changed anyone's mind.

It's also possible to change your vote, in this poll, if you like.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2017, 03:34:52 pm »
I hoped an anonymous poll would yield more honest answers, than one where everyone is named.

It's not practical to list all possible view points, as there will be hundreds. The main purpose of the poll was to determine if the debate actually changed anyone's mind.

It's also possible to change your vote, in this poll, if you like.

It not about "changing mind" but acquiring scientifically sound knowledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiment

Quote
An experiment is a procedure carried out to support, refute, or validate a hypothesis.
...
A child may carry out basic experiments
...
In the scientific method, an experiment is an empirical procedure that arbitrates competing models or hypotheses.[2][3] Researchers also use experimentation to test existing theories or new hypotheses to support or disprove them.

So there are options outside of beliefs:

a) I experimentally confirmed phenomenon.
b) I failed to experimentally confirm phenomenon.

Both subject to limitations of specific experimenter.

Note that since nature of phenomenon is not (fully) understood controlled experiment is impossible. This does still leave other sound options:  Natural, field experiments and observational study. Important is not to forget ethics. Wikipedia article will provide further details for curious mind.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2017, 04:51:10 pm »
Wow, suddenly a huge spike in dowsing believers. Did this get posted somewhere, or did someone make a number of accounts or something?
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2017, 05:56:29 pm »
I hoped an anonymous poll would yield more honest answers, than one where everyone is named.

It's not practical to list all possible view points, as there will be hundreds. The main purpose of the poll was to determine if the debate actually changed anyone's mind.

It's also possible to change your vote, in this poll, if you like.

It not about "changing mind" but acquiring scientifically sound knowledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiment

Quote
An experiment is a procedure carried out to support, refute, or validate a hypothesis.
...
A child may carry out basic experiments
...
In the scientific method, an experiment is an empirical procedure that arbitrates competing models or hypotheses.[2][3] Researchers also use experimentation to test existing theories or new hypotheses to support or disprove them.

So there are options outside of beliefs:

a) I experimentally confirmed phenomenon.
b) I failed to experimentally confirm phenomenon.

Both subject to limitations of specific experimenter.

Note that since nature of phenomenon is not (fully) understood controlled experiment is impossible. This does still leave other sound options:  Natural, field experiments and observational study. Important is not to forget ethics. Wikipedia article will provide further details for curious mind.

This thread was never about science, just people's opinions/perceptions, of dowsing. If it were about the science of dowsing, there would be no need for a poll.

Wow, suddenly a huge spike in dowsing believers. Did this get posted somewhere, or did someone make a number of accounts or something?
Yes, I've considered the possibility that sockpuppetry could be interfering with the results. I suppose that's just one of the potential inaccuracies in poll, especially one about something which some people are passionate about.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2017, 10:46:41 pm »
This thread was never about science, just people's opinions/perceptions, of dowsing. If it were about the science of dowsing, there would be no need for a poll.

For pseudoskeptics yes, it is all about their opinions/perceptions ;)
http://www.skepticalaboutskeptics.org/examining-skeptics/editorial-suppressed-science-on-skeptics/
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Many who loudly advertise themselves as “skeptics” are actually “disbelievers”.
Properly, a skeptic is a nonbeliever, a person who refuses to jump to conclusions based on inconclusive evidence. A disbeliever, on the other hand, is characterized by an a priori belief that a certain idea is wrong and will not be swayed by any amount of empirical evidence to the contrary.

 

Offline Tepe

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ceterum censeo systemd-inem esse delendam
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Dowsing
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2017, 10:53:39 pm »
That guy just keeps coming up with straw man arguments, non-sequiturs, and woowoo blatherings. For someone who claims to be an experimental physicist he sure seems to be out there.
 


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