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Driverless taxi service getting approved in SF

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james_s:

--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on June 09, 2022, 07:07:02 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on June 08, 2022, 03:07:13 am ---A friend of mine predicted years ago that the driverless car thing would be pushed out hastily and then at some point there would be an event or series of events that kills a bunch of people and the whole thing is outlawed, maybe this will play out that way.

--- End quote ---

What is hastily? Back in 1995-1998 I was involved in developing a driver-less container transport system called COMBI-ROAD. https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/981940/ At some point in time there was a demonstration of this system scheduled to happen at the same time an American company (don't remember the name) came over to do a demo of a driver-less car. There was this new highway, just finished and not in use yet, reserved for this. (Think it was a section of the A50) The cars drove themselves in series but with a "non driver" behind the wheel to intervene in case of a problem. The faith in the system was not very high ;)

The demonstration for the COMBI-ROAD system was conducted at the same time on a company terrain (At the time I think named Traxis) For the time that the truck was on it's own track there was no driver. It did work quite well, but to be honest the obstacle detection had it's weak points. A person on the track was only detected when the infrared beams were interrupted, so there were spots that the truck would happily smush anyone on the track :o

So now some 25 years later the self driving car is still not safely there :-DD

Sure with AI and cameras a lot is possible, but failure is always there. Humans are unpredictable and with emotions in play there are so many scenarios that can go wrong. Let's be honest we, as drivers in general, are not capable of driving without accidents. Only in a perfect setup where there are no other users on the road self driving cars might do well.

The point of responsibility is very true. Whom to blame if it goes sour |O

--- End quote ---

Driving on a closed highway is an entirely different situation than coexisting with human drivers on public roads. This attitude is exactly the sort of thing that leads to hasty deployments, people are overly confident, the did it on a closed circuit so they think it will be easy to scale up to deal with real world driving on public roads. It's not.

jonpaul:
Bonjour, a few questions please!

What's an acceptable system error rate..1%?  0.01%

 how much dégradation will occur due to:

1. poor or missing internet connection or poor mobile cell coverage

2. stale maps eg due to recent roadworks?

3. undisclosed or unknown Software and firmware bugs?

4. Global position error...faux signal, eg intentionally due to conflict or war?

Already just within a few years of limited testing, some deaths and serious accidents

Who exactly is responsible?

who has rights and access to the stored data from the vehicles involved?

Vehicle manufacturer, driver, owner?


Bon courage


Jon

pcprogrammer:
Bonjour a vous,

All very good questions which are hard to answer.

What is safe error response? Just stopping on the middle of the road if for instance the internet connection drops is not safe and certainly a hinder to the rest of the users on the road.

About GPS, it does not work when in a tunnel or underpass, so can't rely on it. Radar does not look around corners and can be absorbed so again nothing to rely on. Etc, etc.

Way to many problem points with this for me to get into a self driving car :palm:

Cordialement,
Peter

jonpaul:
Rebonjour Cher Peter,

any détection system, radar lidar, sonar has limited capture angle, and update rate.

false negatives can be as bad in concequence as false positives...

The complexity of the many computers and 100s mega lines of SW make a perfect detection impossible.

I would be surprised if the serious incident error rate were better than 0.1% = one failure per 1000 incident.


"No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information....."

HAL9000 in Stanley Kubrick's classic 1968 film, "2001, A Space Odyssey"

bon courage,

jon




pcprogrammer:

--- Quote from: jonpaul on June 09, 2022, 01:50:56 pm ---"No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information....."

--- End quote ---

Bonjour Jon,

that was before Windows came along :-DD

About the detection systems, that is why the COMBI-ROAD system I talked about was using infrared beams to transfer information about the road including wetness and temperature and obstacles for the next kilometer ahead to the vehicle. The safety in the system was the vehicle stopping when there was a problem, and all vehicles behind it would too. Can only work on a dedicated and separate road. But it also has limitations, like railroads also have and thus need a way to keep people of the track.

The wife is calling supper so till next post,

Greetings,
Peter

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