DuraHELL batteries

[Synthtech]

I haven’t allowed Duracell’s into my building in the last 8 years. Leaking and equipment damage seems to be a feature of those things.

[james_s]

Had this come to me yesterday.

I noticed the cells no longer say they will repair or replace damaged devices, and I looked around on the Duracell website and it isn't mentioned anywhere there either. I'm going to contact them anyway and ask just on principal, this mouse is such a mess I don't think it's really worth my time to mess with it.

[KE5FX]

It's a good example of hidden inflation.  The price of Duracells on the grocery store shelf hasn't gone up that much, but their quality has fallen far enough to render them unfit for most purposes.  You can still buy AA and AAA cells that don't leak, but to do that, you'll have to spend several times as much for primary lithium cells, or use NiMH rechargeables that might or might not work in your devices. 

The combination of environmental regulation and economic optimization has the effect of bifurcating the marketplace.  If you're wealthy, it's all good.  Those lithium AAs that cost $20 for a bubble pack of 4 are at least as good as alkaline Duracells were, back when they could make them out of mercury and polonium and DDT.  But if you're a paycheck-to-paycheck kind of person, you'll spend the same money for a much-worse product that will have to be replaced more often.

And no, you can't dodge this problem by switching to Energizers.  That worked for a while, but I've replaced plenty of leaky Energizers recently.  They aren't quite as bad but that's all you can say for them.   There is no solution but to switch to NiMH when possible and primary lithium otherwise.  Conventional alkalines are done for.

My guess is that the same thing's going to happen with everything from cars and computers to food and furniture.   Quality is about to become VERY expensive.

[bdunham7]

You can still buy AA and AAA cells that don't leak, but to do that, you'll have to spend several times as much for primary lithium cells, or use NiMH rechargeables that might or might not work in your devices.

The Sunbeam ones I get at the dollar store don't leak, even after a decade in a meter in my hot and cold garage.  I just installed a 15+ year old NOS Energizer 9V battery that looked good and worked well.  I wonder what the technical issue is.  Cost?  Environmental restriction of some substance?

[Cubdriver]

You can still buy AA and AAA cells that don't leak, but to do that, you'll have to spend several times as much for primary lithium cells, or use NiMH rechargeables that might or might not work in your devices.

The Sunbeam ones I get at the dollar store don't leak, even after a decade in a meter in my hot and cold garage.  I just installed a 15+ year old NOS Energizer 9V battery that looked good and worked well.  I wonder what the technical issue is.  Cost?  Environmental restriction of some substance?

Yes.

-Pat

[james_s]

The only thing I still use alkaline AA cells for is clocks and remote controls. I picked up some Panasonic cells from Digikey a while back that have been fine, haven't had one of them leak yet. I have a few things I use alkaline C cells in because proper rechargeable C and D cells that are not just a AA in a larger housing are hard to find.

Oddly the AA cells seem to be the absolute worse of the bunch. Just today I tossed out some dead Duracell C cells that were in some Roomba virtual walls. That was a mix of dates from 2005-2009 accumulated from unknown sources and none of them had leaked. AA's are the most common size by far but thinking about it I don't even remember the last time I had a C or D battery leak and while comparatively rare I do have a non-zero number of those.

[floobydust]

4/2016  "A federal judge threw out a lawsuit accusing Procter & Gamble Co PG.N of misleading consumers by guaranteeing that Duracell batteries would not fail for 10 years, when in fact the batteries might leak when used or stored normally."
"Koh said reasonable consumers would understand that P&G’s representation that the batteries were “guaranteed for 10 years in storage” was a warranty to repair, replace or refund batteries that failed within that timeframe, and not a promise that the batteries “have no potential to leak.”
"She also said in her 33-page decision that the complaint did not identify any cause, including any design or manufacturing defect, as to why the batteries might leak."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-procter-gamble-lawsuit-duracell-idUSKCN0WI23A
The case is Punian v Gillette Co et al, U.S. District Court, Northern District of California, No. 14-05028.

So much for the false advertising suit, equipment damage, and any hope of Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway salvaging the cow they milked to death.

[james_s]

While in a sense I agree, there's no way to guarantee that a battery containing liquid *cannot* ever possibly under any circumstances leak, it should certainly be exceptionally rare. If all batteries leaked that would be one thing, but Duracell batteries in particular seem to be particularly prone to leaking, and only within the last 20 years or so. Prior to that it was unusual for alkaline batteries to leak unless they were very old.

[rsjsouza]

And no, you can't dodge this problem by switching to Energizers.  That worked for a while, but I've replaced plenty of leaky Energizers recently. 

Indeed. I still have a handful of Black top Energizers with exp date of 2012/2013 thst are still in one piece and holding charge. Much newer series with lighter colors leaked like crazy.

The only thing I still use alkaline AA cells for is clocks and remote controls. I picked up some Panasonic cells from Digikey a while back that have been fine, haven't had one of them leak yet.

I did the same - switched about a year ago and haven't had a problem yet, even with completelh drained ones. Knock on wood.

Oddly the AA cells seem to be the absolute worse of the bunch. Just today I tossed out some dead Duracell C cells that were in some Roomba virtual walls. That was a mix of dates from 2005-2009 accumulated from unknown sources and none of them had leaked. AA's are the most common size by far but thinking about it I don't even remember the last time I had a C or D battery leak and while comparatively rare I do have a non-zero number of those.

Similar here. I suspect that either the batteries are less used when compared to the smaller ones (so the sample space is smaller) or they are indeed sturdier (perhaps lower density of charge). Oh well... Still playing whack-a-mole...

[Cubdriver]

Similar here. I suspect that either the batteries are less used when compared to the smaller ones (so the sample space is smaller) or they are indeed sturdier (perhaps lower density of charge). Oh well... Still playing whack-a-mole...

Perhaps because the AA and AAA ones are used in such large numbers, they're the ones that have been most optimized for 'economy' by the counters of beans, who've specified thinner enclosure materials because they're smaller and can be made with lighter construction?  Saving a fraction of a penny on something you make a gazillion a year of is a better ROI than saving that same fraction of a cent on something that you only make a tenth of a gazillion a year of. I know they've certainly gone to crap quality-wise over the past 20 or so years in my experience, and agree that the larger cells seem still to be at least a bit more sturdily made and less prone to puking their guts out than the AA/AAA cells.

-Pat

[SilverSolder]

[...]  Quality is about to become VERY expensive.

This is already true...  quality stuff, made of real materials, is incredibly expensive - almost no matter what you are looking at.

[Tomorokoshi]

I just got some Nickel-Zinc NiZn AA and AAA batteries for this very reason. I will try them in various applications and watch the results.

[Haenk]

I can only speak for stuff available in Germany, but the Alkalines sold by Aldi and Lidl are the ones to buy - I haven't had a single leaking one in over 20 years, maybe 30 years.
However I mostly use Eneloops and other LSD type of cells from Aldi/Lidl now - which are less than 1 EUR each (though the standard Eneloops seem to be a bit better). Never had a single leaking one, either.

[rsjsouza]

Haenk, not doubting your experience with these brands throughout the years, I would ask how long ago did you buy your last set. The reason is that, across many brands, it seems the quality suffered a major decline in the last 10, 15 years from the standpoint of leakage. Also, this seems to be very concentrated on AA/AAA.

[floobydust]

It coincides with the EPA Mercury-Containing Battery Act approved 1996 and it took a few years to implement. Mercury was essential to dealing with hydrogen off-gassing.

But some new quality problem exists, Duracell batteries piss and leak- while sometimes you can get lucky and they don't, and other brands have no issues.

[IanB]

You can still buy AA and AAA cells that don't leak, but to do that, you'll have to spend several times as much for primary lithium cells, or use NiMH rechargeables that might or might not work in your devices.

Or, you can buy the cheap dollar store brands like Sunbeam. I have never seen one of those leak. The magic phrase for non-leaky alkalines is "clock battery".

The reason the more expensive batteries are more likely to leak is that they have more active and energetic chemical formulations inside them, and these "high power" formulations are less stable, making them more likely to react and produce gas while sitting on the shelf.

The cheaper alkaline cells use less active and more stable formulations, so they are less likely to undergo shelf reactions.

Leakage in alkaline cells is caused by a build up of gas pressure inside the cell that forces the insides out like toothpaste. The case is sealed well enough to resist small leak pressures, but if the internal pressure gets too high the seal bursts and you get a mess.

[floobydust]

[...] Leakage in alkaline cells is caused by a build up of gas pressure inside the cell that forces the insides out like toothpaste. The case is sealed well enough to resist small leak pressures, but if the internal pressure gets too high the seal bursts and you get a mess.

A new battery or one that is not discharged much should evolve little to no hydrogen gas. This is the Duracell dilemma- they are leaking beforehand. I believe it's not the "usual" reason for leaking that we are assuming. Previously it was always dead batteries that leaked, now you just look at them and they take the piss. In the store, on the shelf, etc.
I posted pics of AAA Duracell seal, nothing to burst or rupture- https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/alkaline-battery-leakage-testing-part-1/msg2253834/#msg2253834

[coppercone2]

if someone just made a long term anti lead and mercury vaccine we would all be delighted with electronics

[SilverSolder]

[...] Leakage in alkaline cells is caused by a build up of gas pressure inside the cell that forces the insides out like toothpaste. The case is sealed well enough to resist small leak pressures, but if the internal pressure gets too high the seal bursts and you get a mess.

A new battery or one that is not discharged much should evolve little to no hydrogen gas. This is the Duracell dilemma- they are leaking beforehand. I believe it's not the "usual" reason for leaking that we are assuming. Previously it was always dead batteries that leaked, now you just look at them and they take the piss. In the store, on the shelf, etc.
I posted pics of AAA Duracell seal, nothing to burst or rupture- https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/alkaline-battery-leakage-testing-part-1/msg2253834/#msg2253834

It seems the most likely cause is:  one cost optimization too far!

[madires]

<conspiracy hat on>
Besides profit optimization they might get some additional money from manufacturers of battery powered devices. When leaking batteries damage your device you have to buy a new one. Classic win-win situation.
<conspiracy hat off>

[eti]

If Duracells leak, file a claim.  I had a flashlight where Duracells had eaten up the inside of the aluminium. It cost me peanuts, but I claimed for the RRP, and they paid up no issues - close to £100. They don't want the bad press especially with how high profile they are.

Easy as pie.

[SilverSolder]

If Duracells leak, file a claim.  I had a flashlight where Duracells had eaten up the inside of the aluminium. It cost me peanuts, but I claimed for the RRP, and they paid up no issues - close to £100. They don't want the bad press especially with how high profile they are.

Easy as pie.

It is a pain if a piece of equipment is destroyed that is not easy to replace - e.g. something that is no longer in production.

[TheBay]

I've been using GP alkaline batteries for years and never had a leak, but I'm interested to know if others have had any issues with them.

I had some test equipment delivered recently which came with Duracell batteries, specifically written on the side "OEM" use only. Without seeing this thread I had no hesitation about putting them in, now I'm thinking about pulling those out as these devices could potentially have the same batteries in there for months.

Anything I buy that comes with batteries that have a questionable brand on them I put straight in the bin, somehow I did put supplied batteries in a "Tacklife" laser distance measurer, I got that out recently to check the sizes internally and externally on some houses we were viewing (Never trust estate agents) and they had leaked inside. They hadn't been in there long and had plenty of life in them.

[IanB]

I've been using GP alkaline batteries for years and never had a leak, but I'm interested to know if others have had any issues with them.

What I generally do is to avoid any batteries that have marketing labels on them, like "max power", or "ultra", or "30% better", or anything like that. These are the ones that will have more energetic formulas, that are less shelf-stable. The ones to buy are ones that make no special marketing claims, and which sell through low cost outlets. Brands like Kodak, Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony, Sunbeam come to mind. These seem to be more reliable. I think GP would come into the same category.

[eti]

If Duracells leak, file a claim.  I had a flashlight where Duracells had eaten up the inside of the aluminium. It cost me peanuts, but I claimed for the RRP, and they paid up no issues - close to £100. They don't want the bad press especially with how high profile they are.

Easy as pie.

It is a pain if a piece of equipment is destroyed that is not easy to replace - e.g. something that is no longer in production.

Agreed, of course.