Dynaudio speaker replacements...

[davorin]

As my topic won't fit in any other category I'm asking here...

During my apprenticeship I build a pair of speakers built with Dynaudio chassis...namely 30W54, D54 and D21 IIRC...

Now I'm looking for new speaker chassis which could match the quality of those Dynaudio models...especially as Dynaudio doesn't sell those anymore individually...

So which brand/models do people use for building their own high quality speakers like for TML designs?


I'm not sure if anything could match what I've built back then...same output level at 20Hz and 1KhZ (o;

[SirNick]

Big topic.  By "chassis" I assume you mean raw drivers?  There are plenty of sources for good raw drivers, but as with any kind of engineering, what you choose is more dependent on your goals than a simple good / better / best system.

Generally, small drivers have wider dispersion than large drivers.  Large drivers move more air and are thus more suited to lower frequencies.  Using one driver means a compromise of extension, directionality, and power-handling, while using multiple drivers means compromising phase coherency, cost, and complexity.  You'll have to pick between efficiency and bandwidth as well.  PA drivers are highly efficient, but require large cones and huge enclosures.  Home audio drivers tend to work better in smaller enclosures, but require a lot of power.  At one end of that, you have horns and transmission lines -- and at the other, undersized sealed enclosures with tons of power and heavy-handed signal conditioning.

The nice thing is, there are tools available now that were only available to high-end manufacturers 20 years ago.  Software like WinISD, HornResp, PCD, and any number of RTA packages; along with hardware like DATS, measurement mics, and clean USB audio interfaces.  Not to mention CNC routers.   

There are probably better forums to discuss this sort of thing than here.  It's a rather involved hobby and accordingly has its own ecosystem, but there's probably some spill-over between the two.  Watch out for the cork-sniffing audiophiles though. 

[davorin]

Ah okay...raw drivers it is then (o;

Probably just a local english term here....like during the football champion chip...where everywhere you could watch it at "public viewing" places....but int England it means public display at a funeral ;-)

I know about calculation, enclosure design and all those things...fact is that Dynaudio drivers were just unbeatable from sound perspective...my speakers could handle 1kW peak easily....and sounded like hell....remember "Welcome to the machine" from Pink Floyd where at the end the elevator door opens? You could feel the air pressure (o;

The only drivers which came close...well..not really close...were the KEF ones...from UK....


I definitively have to look for a special audio forum for that matter ;-)


But thanks for listening...

[retrolefty]

I was active at one time on the audioKarma site, lots of good people there.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php

[Mark Hennessy]

Dynaudio drive units can be good (not all of them are) - but they are very expensive and don't represent good value for money. There are plenty of alternatives from SEAS, Peerless/Vifa, ATC, Volt, and many others. The last two are especially recommended if you want to go loud

Spend a couple of hours browsing the driver tests on Zaph's site: http://www.zaphaudio.com/

At the risk of stating the obvious, don't forget that most of the sound you hear is from the system design - especially the crossover. Unless you're using drive units with major problems, the drive units are a surprisingly small part of the equation.

[linux-works]

+1 for zaph.  I built his l18 kit with seas drivers and madisound prefab cabinets and could not be happier (for the price, at least).  I run mine with active xo and true bi-amp (bi-dac and custom diy preamp, as well) and it really becomes entry level high end at that point.  I try to avoid passive XO's now that active is so cheap and easy (dcx2496, mine modded to spdif-in and dual spdif-out to drive 2 dacs, one for woofs and one for tweets).

dynaudio was an interesting company but their low slope XO's really did not sound pleasing to me (their designs, that is).  woofers were decently built but did not like the sound of their tweeters.

since they no longer sell drivers, I'd look for a whole different design.  sucks when vendors EOL parts to end users ;(

[Noise Floor]

Another +1 for Zaph.  I've built several of his designs with a few personal tweaks and all came out excellent, found his recommendations spot on.  He originally tuned me on to Vifa and even Dayton drivers many years ago.

[linux-works]

my DIY 2-way zaph l18, being assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works/6558089649/

about $100 for each driver and about $100 for the pre-fab cabinets (not sure if they are still sold by madisound, but they were very well made, esp. for the price).

love the value of seas drivers.

[SirNick]

Agreed on just about all of the above.  If you're in to speaker design at all, you probably already know about Zaph's site -- it has been around a while, and it really is a trove of info.  Some opinion, of course, but plenty of fact, research, and data to back it up or draw your own conclusions.

I would also like to second Dayton Audio's product line.  They're often re-badged drivers from other popular OEMs, but the portfolio tends to be cherry-picked to meet the design goals of that market segment.  Also, price / performance ratio is really good -- at least if you can get them shipped economically.  I've built two pairs of bookshelf speakers now using mostly Dayton parts -- one is an existing design, and one is my own.  Both turned out exceptionally well given the budget and design constraints. 

[linux-works]

follow-up: bad news - madisound no longer carries md14 enclosures and they won't carry them any more (as per an email I got from them).  not sure why they got out of that business, but its a damned shame!  those were cute, really well built and affordable cabs.  damn.

[davorin]

Maybe something for the old Dynaudio speakers I've built during my apprenticeship...

Bought around 7m2 wood for two speakers...had to be that big as I built a TML system, calculated to dampen the resonance frequency of the 30W54 driver...was around 22Hz IIRC...

Well..had to admit I got around 40% discount on the drivers...so ended up spending approx. $1000 including everything...
And the results was astonishing...especially playing back Pink Floyd vinyl records (o;

The Dynaudio drivers were always power hungry compared to other drivers....but you could feed them with continuos 210W and peak with 1000W...

So I look more for audiophile drivers than loud drivers....and since I've built and heard a TML system I would probably never use anything else ;-)


But I sure go through Zaphs site...but testing Visaton drivers? Waste of time (o;

[jaxbird]

I'd recommend having a look at:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm

Very likely you will find something that will fit both budget and requirements.

His designs appear very well designed and gets a lot of positive response.

[davorin]

At least would fit the country (o;

But there are/were also Jamo speakers from Denmark (o;


Designing is not a problem...more finding the suitable high quality drivers....dunno if KEF is still selling them individually....liked their boxes back then...especially in my old Volvo 121...

But I will definitively subscribe to the audio forum mentioned above...though I don't like to have too many subscriptions....
This one seemed just to be a perfect fit...since edaboard isn't that active anymore and I'm not super admin there anymore (o;

[jaxbird]

At least would fit the country (o;

But there are/were also Jamo speakers from Denmark (o;


Designing is not a problem...more finding the suitable high quality drivers....dunno if KEF is still selling them individually....liked their boxes back then...especially in my old Volvo 121...
...

As far as I remember Jamo is primarily budget speakers, but as you cannot get the Dynaudio drivers for DIY anymore.

I'd recommend having a look at ScanSpeak drivers, if you are ready to invest several $1000 in building a pair of high performance speakers. Have a look at the site I linked for ideas.

[davorin]

This one seems to be from Denmark as well:

http://www.jantzen-audio.com/ja-5006/

And surprisingly looking similar to Dynaudio drivers...although only available in smaller sizes *sniff...

From my experience in the past....best speaker drivers are either from Denmark or the UK...at least coming from Europe :-)
Seems to be a mechanical issue....that's why speakers like Bose will never sound good, just loud (o;

I will sure look at ScanSpeak as well....

Hmm...resonance frequency 17Hz....this calls for a two folded TML then (o;
And their datasheets have a wast of information....wonderful...and sensitivity is similar to Dynaudio...89dB...high values makes me suspicious (o;

Looks most drivers from Denmark follow the Dynaudio design...and even naming seems to be similar....:-)


Hey! Thanks for the great and valuable input :-))