Author Topic: E14 lead times.  (Read 8858 times)

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Offline GK

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E14 lead times.
« on: November 17, 2014, 12:58:32 pm »
Hardly anything I order anymore (electronic components) is ever in stock and I've noticed that what used to be 6-7 working days delivery is now 7-8 working days delivery and an item listed as "In stock", which used to mean "same or next working day delivery" is now (almost exclusively for items on my last order) "two working days delivery". And I f^%$ing hate getting a single order in fifty different installments over a 2 (or more) working week period with fifty fu^%ing separate tax invoices to process. How can it be economical to send dozens of separate packages for odd bits often worth less than the envelope? E14 must have a pretty good deal struck up with their courier company of choice.

One of the things Farnell always had going for them was the large local inventory and next day delivery. This convenience made their often inflated prices bearable. However their prices aren't getting better and the local stock kept (especially of nearly anything in quantity) is dwindling evermore. They must be loosing customers in droves. I've had orders from Digikey arrive in less time than what most of my E14 orders are now taking and prices are generally significantly lower.

Get stuffed E14.


« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 07:40:19 am by GK »
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Offline 8086

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 01:02:42 pm »
I just this morning had to cancel a farnell order because items were showing as in stock but they weren't really in the warehouse.

I've been using Mouser more and more lately.
 

Offline digsys

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2014, 01:30:59 pm »
Exactly in the same boat as you. Digikey have REALLY got their overseas order act together big time !! And for a VERY fair price. I used to wait app 2weeks,
but now it's down to 3-5 days !! The storeman must have run to the plane himself on the 3 day delivery item.
Mouser were 2-3 weeks and had terrible stock management / pricing ! One particular order, for app 20 items (all supposedly in stock) was split into 4-5
separate deliveries, each costing $60-$85 !! and ALL within 2-3 days ! I went to town on them over that, not even 1 kg of semis in total.
For a while I used a parcel forwarder, but that gets complicated, and adds delays. Mouser seem to have gotten their act together as well, but not as good
as Digikey IMO. The other issue with Mouser is, if you forget to trade in US$, they re-direct you to X-ON etc (local distributors) who add 20 - 25%.
And now we have Aus Post getting into parcel forwarding, can hardly wait to try them out.
And as for Farnell ... err Element 0 ... I still do a lot of small qty, many items type orders. If you carefully check pricing, the free shipping offsets the rest.
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2014, 02:00:51 pm »
In contrast I was just saying to my contract assembler the other day that the drought of parts over the past three years or so seems to be improving, based on my last production order. For some time, certain parts have been in sporadic availability, and occasionally we have to go out to the old-new stock folk.

Farnell's stock control is awful. It's a crap shoot whether they really have stuff in stock, and when they do, it's not unusual for the wrong part to be sent out, so each re-reeled passive BOM part has to be manually tested before assembly starts. The rot coincided with when they opened their Lille warehouse a few years back. On the plus side Farnell don't charge for re-reeling.

Mouser are a lot better, although occasionally they can make the odd mistake.

Digikey are also generally not bad but I don't find them as competitive as they were maybe five years ago.

I have noticed that increasingly factory stock is quoted on the websites these days. In addition, the lead times for out of stock items tends to be completely contrary to reality. It's not unusual to be told it's a three week lead time, only to have them arrive two days later, but in the meantime you've already ordered 20k parts from elsewhere.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 02:17:00 pm »

Farnell's stock control is awful. It's a crap shoot whether they really have stuff in stock, and when they do, it's not unusual for the wrong part to be sent out,

Oh yes. I had some resistors that were supposedly 10k but actually 27k a while back.

I didn't notice before assembly (my fault) and my customer had to send the boards back. Needless to say I check and double check everything now.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 03:45:40 pm »
E14 quoted me 8 weeks lead time for a Rigol scope that other vendors sell all over the place, so that model was certainly not a low stock at Rigol. I guess this is how long it takes for E14 to move their @ss.
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Offline GK

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2014, 07:52:31 am »
I've only had few issues with stock control (as in parts listed in stock when not), my main gripe now is that so little is kept in local stock. Well over half of every order seems to be on the (now) 7-8 working days delivery.

Another annoyance is their pricing structure. For example, On my last order, I bought in quantity 7k5, 500mW 1% metal film resistors for less than one cent per piece. However for a 100R resistor from the same series they wanted 22 cents per piece with no quantity discount. 22 cents for a single jellybean 1/2W metal film is just nuts if you need a few thousand of them. And then other values are priced even higher - often a lot higher. I still remember the print catalog days when the pricing was uniform for all values of a series; as it should be. All this means that E14 is now mostly useless and struck off my books for inventory stocking of basic components like resistors. It just isn't worth my time to use their crappy parametric search engine to trawl through a maybe a dozen or more series to find a decently priced example of each required value.
 
EDIT: Here is as example of what I am talking about:

http://au.element14.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=0+110061076+110156669+110110393+110177705&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=MCMF0W2FF&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=369675&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_AU&divisionLocale=en_AU&catalogId=&skipManufacturer=false&skipParametricAttributeId=&prevNValues=0+110061076+110156669+110110393&mm=1000635||,1001789||,1001082||,1001880||,&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&autoApply=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D0%26Ntk%3Dgensearch%26Ntt%3DMCMF0W2FF%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchallpartial%26suggestions%3Dfalse%26ref%3Dglobalsearch%26_requestid%3D369675%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dtrue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_AU%26divisionLocale%3Den_AU%26catalogId%3D%26skipManufacturer%3Dfalse%26skipParametricAttributeId%3D%26prevNValues%3D0

Look at the differences in prices for resistors of the same series of different resistance values. This issue doesn't just apply to resistors. In fact the problem is even worse with capacitors as their are so many different variations in package dimensions/lead pitch for capacitors of a specific voltage and capacitance rating between different series. It's just a tedious nightmare to start with a list of required capacitor values and trawl through the offerings for appropriate examples that are actually acceptably/economically priced (and/or actually in stock, either in Aust. or an overseas warehouse and thus without stupidly long lead-times) for bulk purchase.
   
Edit #2:

Even a comparatively pipsqueak dealer such as Altronics can do fixed (decent) pricing for resistors within a specific series:

http://www.altronics.com.au/electronic-components/carbon-film-resistors/?wattage_3=06w-metal-film&packaging_4=pack-of-1000
 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 08:33:34 am by GK »
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2014, 10:28:34 am »
It also works the other way, say you have multiple projects and place a single order, but want stuff shipping ASAP with the remainder stock to follow. Mouser give you that option, but you have to remember to check it!

Most of my production volume stuff goes to Mouser these days, based on their wider selction, price and availability. Some lines go to Farnell, again based on price: when you're buying in the thousands it does make quite a difference, and some things like generic SMD passives are cheaper from Farnell particularly with their Multicomp own brand. However I've come to anticipate that with Farnell, out of fifty line items showing available, two or three won't be shipped and will be on back order.

For R&D most of my orders are with Farnell because I get them next day, although Mouser aren't to shabby considering they're over the Atlantic, it's not unusual to order on a Friday and have the parts on Monday, although I usually schedule a three working day turnaround.
 

Offline m100

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2014, 11:14:58 am »
Another annoyance is their pricing structure. For example, On my last order, I bought in quantity 7k5, 500mW 1% metal film resistors for less than one cent per piece. However for a 100R resistor from the same series they wanted 22 cents per piece with no quantity discount. 22 cents for a single jellybean 1/2W metal film is just nuts if you need a few thousand of them. And then other values are priced even higher - often a lot higher.
 

Changing that url for a UK one shows all those are US stock which might have some impact on pricing with exchange rates.   The last printed catalogue that seems to have uniform pricing within a range is from about 2010.  My guess is that as new stock is procured the price is set at the date it arrives dependent on exchange rates and financing costs.   I agree it's a complete PITA for the customer.  Same thing happens (used to?) in the car industry, a part for a car long out of production was often set at the price it was last manufactured / sourced at.  20 years of inflation and the part could be less than scrap value.  If the part is then resourced then it might increase in price by a multiple of five or more.   
 

Offline GK

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2014, 11:54:41 am »
well ... i cant blame them. nobody can stock everything, nobody have unlimited warehouse ... sometimes i forget to tell them ship everything in 1 box ... and i get 3 -4 boxes ... they are wasting their own resources by not controlling delivery properly.


Sure they can't keep huge volumes of everything in local stock, but just garden variety parts like low wattage resistors? If I suddenly require 100 15k 0.5W resistors there is no guarantee anymore that I can log onto the website of what is supposed to be a serious electronics component supplier and get those right off the shelf. That's just a joke, IMO. Its happened enough times now that I just drove down to Jaycar the next day to try my luck there instead. I can't remember the last time more than half of a single order of, say, 10 or more product lines, actually arrived the next day from local stock.

As for those shipping practices, the associated costs are ultimately passed on the the consumer of course. But as I stated in my opening post, those great "same day" (and other) shipping services for which the consumer ultimately pays for make less and less sense as less and less parts are actually kept in the country. Note that I am only reporting on the apparent state of affairs in this country. I can't comment on how Farnell/E14/Newark/whatever manages its business in Europe or elsewhere.

Digikey even have .au website which processes orders in AUD. Clearly our local distributors are failing to provide for our local market if one based entirely overseas can stick its foot into the door.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 12:17:03 pm by GK »
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2014, 10:55:36 pm »
On the subject of multiple deliveries for one order, I asked one of the sales people if there was an option I was missing on their ordering site to have everything sent in one delivery. Apparently you just type that request in the text box marked special instructions even though those instructions are meant for the receiver
 

Offline GK

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2014, 12:27:02 am »
I think that you would need to keep your fingers crossed if you tried that. And I doubt that they would modify their standard procedure of separately billing and invoicing items on despatch from the various overseas warehouses.
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Offline Tac Eht Xilef

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2014, 01:56:23 am »
On the subject of multiple deliveries for one order, I asked one of the sales people if there was an option I was missing on their ordering site to have everything sent in one delivery. Apparently you just type that request in the text box marked special instructions even though those instructions are meant for the receiver
I think that you would need to keep your fingers crossed if you tried that. And I doubt that they would modify their standard procedure of separately billing and invoicing items on despatch from the various overseas warehouses.

It's worked for me every time I've done it (which is just about every order in the last 6 months) - I simply write something like "OK to hold for single shipment", and it arrives all together on a single invoice. The only downside I've noticed is that sometimes I don't get a dispatch notification email, so now I keep an eye on the order page.

And yeah, what was once usually a 4~7 day delay for UK/US stock now regularly stretches out to 7~11 days.
 

Offline Mr.B

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2014, 02:09:06 am »
Get stuffed E14.

And RS Components.
They suffer the same 'In Stock' but takes 2 weeks problem.

I only use Digikey and Mouser now.
Mouser are usually 4 days USA to Nelson, NZ. 2 days if the stuff is coming out of their HK warehouse.
Digikey usually 4 days.
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2014, 05:25:34 am »
On the subject of multiple deliveries for one order, I asked one of the sales people if there was an option I was missing on their ordering site to have everything sent in one delivery. Apparently you just type that request in the text box marked special instructions even though those instructions are meant for the receiver
I think that you would need to keep your fingers crossed if you tried that. And I doubt that they would modify their standard procedure of separately billing and invoicing items on despatch from the various overseas warehouses.

It's worked for me every time I've done it (which is just about every order in the last 6 months) - I simply write something like "OK to hold for single shipment", and it arrives all together on a single invoice. The only downside I've noticed is that sometimes I don't get a dispatch notification email, so now I keep an eye on the order page.

And yeah, what was once usually a 4~7 day delay for UK/US stock now regularly stretches out to 7~11 days.
Good to know, my last order was the final straw. The delivery guy bangs the door down at 7 in the morning and dammed if the missus is getting up to answer it when I'm not home. Then it's a trip every other day to the depot
 

Offline GK

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2014, 07:47:40 am »
Ooohh.... maybe I'm too pessimistic. So it's a bit like ordering a secret menu item then? I'll have a try on my next order.
 
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Offline NANDBlog

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2014, 03:20:14 pm »
Interesting, in different countries how differently Farnell works. They still do next day free delivery, and the worst thing they do is write french emails. That I hate.
Other than that: If you dont like how they deliver, just negotiate new terms with the sales team. Its not like magic.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2014, 03:56:15 pm »
The crappiest thing with RS in the UK is at they frequently take parts out of production packaging and repackage them either individually or, say five flapping about in an antistatic bag, or on fixed length short strips. I haven't got a clue what they are thinking. Sure, make something available as five unit multiples, but why go to the effort of repackaging them?

Recently they have started to offer "also available in production packaging", but it's not available on everything.

Their trade conters used to be almost reasonable for some parts, but it's so rare they have anything in stock at all that I don't bother with those any more.

But fundamentally it's their general lack of selection and uncompetitive pricing that makes RS the supplier of last resort for me.
 

Offline lowimpedance

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2014, 10:34:55 pm »
 Ive done surveys from Element 14 (sales rep in person!) and RS recently and both were told how their service, (web site for RS), and stock situation sucked.
And Digikey was the preferred supplier.
 Now I am sure others have done the same surveys (in Australia that is), will the message sink in ??!.
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2014, 10:41:24 pm »
Same here with Farnell, I tell the fella I have a six figure spend on parts per annum, and he's only seeing a tenth of that. He asks why, I tell him, and bugger all happens. So why bother taling to me?
 

Offline G0HZU

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2014, 12:18:52 am »
I get a bit frustrated when Farnell send a single order via several separate couriers. But apart from that I'm pleased that they deal with 'me' as a private individual who only places a handful of orders a year. Their staff are always polite and patient on the phone although I usually order online nowadays.

Delivery times are usually very quick here in the UK. The only niggle is the multiple deliveries for a single order. Often I'll get 3 or 4 different couriers arrive in one day. They are often from different courier companies as well which seems crazy...

Stock levels seem pretty good on the stuff I buy and I can often select an equivalent if something is out of stock. So overall I'm pleased with Farnell. I've been using them since I was a student at Uni (in the 1980s) when I could bike/walk to their depot in Leeds and buy stuff and get a free catalogue over the counter.
 

Offline TMM

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2014, 03:29:46 am »
Yeah the multiple parcels thing gets out of hand with E14 at times. It beats me how it can be economical to send 20cents of components in an overnight satchel from 800km away (or the other side of the world...) for free. It doesn't really bother me because I live in a quiet court and request the courier leave parcels on my front porch, no signature required.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 03:31:26 am by TMM »
 

Offline amc184

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Re: E14 lead times.
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2014, 08:59:23 am »
I use element14 for about 75% of my component sourcing, and I'm actually pretty happy with them.  They've only made one mistake with me this year, and that was just sending a double of one line in an order (one with a printed label, one with a handwritten label).  They do overnight shipping to me in New Zealand for stuff in the Australian warehouse, which can cover 30% to 60% of one of my orders, I'm happy with that.  They've got a pretty wide range and I like the parametric search.

Come on guys, they're not all bad....
 


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