Ebay - Does not ship outside US - How to solve it?

[CatalinaWOW]

last time i tried that it went bust. on a  200$ piece of equipment ( a function generator) the shipping was 283$ and there was so much customs paperwork i gave up.. you need to know all the classifications and other blabla. it's simply too much hassle. experienced equipment brokers know how to do it. but for a small fry who has never done it. it'd take half a day just getting the paperwork done...

It is difficult to follow the letter of US law.  I have tried, and like free-electron, gave up.  Here is the deal.  It is really easy if you meet a couple of requirements.  First, that it cost less than $2500.  Second, that it violate no export control regulations.  The second is the zinger.  It turns out that in most cases this isn't a problem either, but it is hard to figure that out.  The customs web site lists half a dozen agencies to check with.  Most of those don't have easy to check lists or anything.

So, if you are shipping a few dozen resistors the form is simple.  If you are shipping an HP3458 you bust the $2500 limit and get to play by a whole different set of rules, part of which is registering yourself as an exporter.  And if you are exporting a rubidium clock or something like that you have to figure out if someone has decided that your clock (purchased from a source outside the US) can be used to develop advanced weapons and is therefore export controlled.  The things that are controlled are often not obvious, and sometimes silly.

People who have exported sophisticated technical gear from the US have followed one of several paths.  They just ignored the law, and got lucky in not breaking it or not getting caught.  They spent a lot of time and effort figuring out if  their export was legal.  They hired professional help (expensive).  Or some combination of these things and a calculated risk.

I sympathise with those who have decided that the US market is a large enough playground, and just choose not to ship international. 

The OP has solved his problem.  For others with the same problem one path would be for you to do the research to find if there are restrictions on the export of your item to your country.  With that work out of the way it would be easier to convince someone to ship directly to you.  Either using Ebay's service, or some other possibly better, possibly cheaper service.  But my experience is that shipping is another whole can of worms.

[Someone]

Not sure why, but a lot of buyers bash the Global Shipping Program. Guess because it hits you with the tax and duty up front. But in terms of cost I have found it offers much cheaper shipping rates than what sellers offer when they only ship USPS.

Global shipping program is cost effective if you ship a heavy item. As of low value, low weight items, it is useless. Not only you will pay more for shipping but also will be charged with taxes, which otherwise won't be charged because the value is under the customs limit. Also it sucks for those countries with high value limit before you get charged with taxes, like Australia.

It works great to Australia, you only pay customs fees and taxes above the $1000 threshold otherwise the get it to you for just the cost of shipping. The upfront payment saves time and the issues of dealing with the local couriers, but the GSP tends to be a bit slow which is how they get the low rates.

last time i tried that it went bust. on a  200$ piece of equipment ( a function generator) the shipping was 283$ and there was so much customs paperwork i gave up.. you need to know all the classifications and other blabla. it's simply too much hassle. experienced equipment brokers know how to do it. but for a small fry who has never done it. it'd take half a day just getting the paperwork done...

It is difficult to follow the letter of US law.  I have tried, and like free-electron, gave up.  Here is the deal.  It is really easy if you meet a couple of requirements.  First, that it cost less than $2500.  Second, that it violate no export control regulations.  The second is the zinger.  It turns out that in most cases this isn't a problem either, but it is hard to figure that out.  The customs web site lists half a dozen agencies to check with.  Most of those don't have easy to check lists or anything.

So, if you are shipping a few dozen resistors the form is simple.  If you are shipping an HP3458 you bust the $2500 limit and get to play by a whole different set of rules, part of which is registering yourself as an exporter.  And if you are exporting a rubidium clock or something like that you have to figure out if someone has decided that your clock (purchased from a source outside the US) can be used to develop advanced weapons and is therefore export controlled.  The things that are controlled are often not obvious, and sometimes silly.

People who have exported sophisticated technical gear from the US have followed one of several paths.  They just ignored the law, and got lucky in not breaking it or not getting caught.  They spent a lot of time and effort figuring out if  their export was legal.  They hired professional help (expensive).  Or some combination of these things and a calculated risk.

I sympathise with those who have decided that the US market is a large enough playground, and just choose not to ship international. 

The OP has solved his problem.  For others with the same problem one path would be for you to do the research to find if there are restrictions on the export of your item to your country.  With that work out of the way it would be easier to convince someone to ship directly to you.  Either using Ebay's service, or some other possibly better, possibly cheaper service.  But my experience is that shipping is another whole can of worms.

Step 1, check the Wassenaar Arrangement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar_Arrangement
http://www.wassenaar.org
For electronics, only high end optical or RF gear is likely to be on the list. Its not unique to the US, all international trade through the signatories has to follow it.

Step 2, if over the exporting limit pay a courier to deal with all the export paper work. Offer it as the only postage options to international people (or the GSP which does the same thing).

[CatalinaWOW]

Step 1, check the Wassenaar Arrangement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassenaar_Arrangement
http://www.wassenaar.org
For electronics, only high end optical or RF gear is likely to be on the list. Its not unique to the US, all international trade through the signatories has to follow it.

Step 2, if over the exporting limit pay a courier to deal with all the export paper work. Offer it as the only postage options to international people (or the GSP which does the same thing).
[/quote]

I'll stand by my comments. 

Start with your first link which tells you nothing about whether what you are doing is OK, only tells what Wassenaar is.  So after spending a few minutes there chalk the wasted time up to experience and go to the second link, which I haven't fully digested, but in just a preliminary quick scan add to the optical or RF gear possibilities the following.  Inspection equipment and control equipment for composite materials.  High temperature electronics.  Low temperature electronics (these two are ok is specifically designed for automotive use.  That doesn't let oilfield equipment, high altitude gear, space gear, arctic gear, cryogenic gear or other similar gear off the hook.)  High speed, high resolution A/D converters.  High efficiency solar cells.  That is in the first 65 pages of the 224 page document.  And doesn't touch the issue of sanctions or other locally generated controls.  And doesn't identify other gray areas like high power thyristors or fast power switches which are also in the first 65 pages.  And doesn't address the fact that you have to through this again every time the Wassenaar group revises the list, which appears to be something like annually.

So, by my standards, what you are recommending is a quick read and take your chances.  In your quick read you only found optics and RF gear.  Or maybe you decided that only the RF guys have use for high speed, high resolution A/D converters.

I assume that step 2 works, but don't know if it really changes the situation.  If the fees are so large that no one wants to buy, what is the difference from a vendor saying they don't want to bother.  I have run into this several times personally, and see comments on this forum all the time indicating that shipping costs make importing impractical or not worth it.

[Someone]

I'll stand by my comments.

This isn't a US specific thing, sellers all around the world are dealing with it ok and not complaining. The US is different that they have enough of a domestic market that you can ignore the rest of the world, but the items on the restricted or dual use list are pretty obvious to anyone who actually uses the equipment and knows what they're dealing with, you don't get caught out for sending old scope probes, but you could get snapped for sending a particularly low phase noise and agile oscillator to Iran for instance. Its not a matter of trawling though the document over and over, you quickly know that 99% of test and measurement equipment is not restricted and put that up for international sale, if you think it might be then just list that domestic only by caution. We're irritated by the US sellers who put the big disclaimers on EVERYTHING that they won't sell internationally for export restrictions when they haven't even made an attempt to understand what is and isn't restricted. For instance:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reel-of-PCB-Components-MFG-No-RC1206FR-07383R-Qty-on-Reel-3900-/112021514904?hash=item1a1500aa98:g:VRYAAOSwLnBXWELy
warning warning, these may be export restricted! For 383 Ohm 1% resistors.
Ebay seems to have installed some geoblocking doohickey so I can't search US domestic sales only right now.

[CatalinaWOW]

I'll stand by my comments.

This isn't a US specific thing, sellers all around the world are dealing with it ok and not complaining. The US is different that they have enough of a domestic market that you can ignore the rest of the world, but the items on the restricted or dual use list are pretty obvious to anyone who actually uses the equipment and knows what they're dealing with, you don't get caught out for sending old scope probes, but you could get snapped for sending a particularly low phase noise and agile oscillator to Iran for instance. Its not a matter of trawling though the document over and over, you quickly know that 99% of test and measurement equipment is not restricted and put that up for international sale, if you think it might be then just list that domestic only by caution. We're irritated by the US sellers who put the big disclaimers on EVERYTHING that they won't sell internationally for export restrictions when they haven't even made an attempt to understand what is and isn't restricted. For instance:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reel-of-PCB-Components-MFG-No-RC1206FR-07383R-Qty-on-Reel-3900-/112021514904?hash=item1a1500aa98:g:VRYAAOSwLnBXWELy
warning warning, these may be export restricted! For 383 Ohm 1% resistors.
Ebay seems to have installed some geoblocking doohickey so I can't search US domestic sales only right now.

I agree that the US is a special case because of the large local market.  Sellers in the rest of the world need to branch out.  Also because the US probably has more restrictions on exports than most countries.  For a "land of the free" we aren't so much.  Most of the world isn't trying to punish someone for disagreeing with us politically.

I am sure it is frustrating and silly to see things like resistors listed as export restricted.  But it is a mirror of the problem from within the US.  Because of the large market the US is one of the richest sources of stuff like this.  The candy store is there, but closed. 

I agree, that once you have come up to speed on export controls it isn't a huge problem, but having recently climbed the hill, it is daunting here in the US.  If you just go fat dumb and happy, trust the shipper it isn't a problem.  But if you try to go directly to the government sources (which you should since that is where the controls come from) the information is complex, difficult and time consuming to track down, and clearly not aimed to make it easy.  It is no wonder that our balance of trade is negative.

[Yansi]

Oh my f* god.

Have recently ordered something other through the Global Shipping Program. However this time it seems to be a major screw-up by the destination carrier. The item is now marked delivered. I do not know whom it was delivered, nor do I know where. I do not know the person signed on the "proof of delivery".  Filed a complaint with the carrier already, but do not know what to do with ebay 

As it seems there is nothing to do on the ebay site with this.  Only can leave negative feedback for the seller - and it certainly is not his fault. (but might be his responsibility to dispute the delivery?).

This time a $400 worth item I payed about $100 including shipping and the GSP fee. Fucking pissed right now... 

[Jeroen3]

What part of europe are you in?

[Yansi]

Germany's neighbor from the east.  Why?  Usually there is no problem with delivery using such as DHL, GLS, whatever. This time it seems the delivery guy is a sort of transsexual idiot, as his (or her?) name is a girls name including surname (in our language we distinguish surnames for men and women), but on the phone he had a male voice.
So far I have been successful with the complaint - the package was delivered an hour ago. Still waiting for the response of the company, what was that shit all about.

As who would guess - the signature on the "proof of delivery" paper was or seems to be the signature of the delivery guy him/her/it-self. 

[CatalinaWOW]

Oh my f* god.

Have recently ordered something other through the Global Shipping Program. However this time it seems to be a major screw-up by the destination carrier. The item is now marked delivered. I do not know whom it was delivered, nor do I know where. I do not know the person signed on the "proof of delivery".  Filed a complaint with the carrier already, but do not know what to do with ebay 

As it seems there is nothing to do on the ebay site with this.  Only can leave negative feedback for the seller - and it certainly is not his fault. (but might be his responsibility to dispute the delivery?).

This time a $400 worth item I payed about $100 including shipping and the GSP fee. Fucking pissed right now... 

So you have identified another reason for someone in a large market to avoid international sales.  If a domestic US shipper screws up, I know who to go to.  If the Ebay global network screws up, Ebay is the only place I know to start, and you have said they are no help.

I am a small time Ebay seller.  I currently am allowing international sales.  So far it has made little to no difference.  Only a few international bidders.  Only one winning international bidder, and no problems.  I have had no problems with international sales here on this forum.  But due to the small impact that allowing international bidders on Ebay sales has made, it wouldn't take much in the way of problems for me to drop that like a hot potato.

I am sorry if this has a negative impact on the rest of the world, but this is a hobby for me.  If the fun leaves the house there is no reason to be involved.

[Yansi]

Allowing international sales is not to make you bigger sales out of nowhere, but to allow other countries with a piece of shit market (like ours) to buy interesting stuff. That's how I think about it.

[CatalinaWOW]

Allowing international sales is not to make you bigger sales out of nowhere, but to allow other countries with a piece of shit market (like ours) to buy interesting stuff. That's how I think about it.

I'll agree with that.  In fact, if I think about it, it is probably why I deal with international sales.  But it wouldn't take a very long run of bad luck to sour me on the experience.

[PowerNet]

For Aussies wanting a trustworthy service from a big reputable organisation, Australia Post offer ShopMate for US to Aus reShipping:

https://shopmate.auspost.com.au/

Disclaimer: I work for AusPost (IT) but dont represent them in anyway, shape or form. 

I have decided to use them too with Fluke products.

Do they ship DMM back to Oz ?


thanks

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

I have a similar problem. A UK seller that won't post a beautiful vintage Acorn/Microvitec CUB CRT display to Spain. I'd need help from a kind british willing to receive it and repost to Spain. Anybody? Please! (send PM)

[djos]

For Aussies wanting a trustworthy service from a big reputable organisation, Australia Post offer ShopMate for US to Aus reShipping:

https://shopmate.auspost.com.au/

Disclaimer: I work for AusPost (IT) but dont represent them in anyway, shape or form. 

I have decided to use them too with Fluke products.

Do they ship DMM back to Oz ?


thanks

They'll ship anything that is available for delivery in the USA to a U.S. Address and forward it on to your Australian address. I used it to get my Apple watch band that an Amazon seller wouldn't ship direct and the service was great.

[BFX]

I don't know but I haven't this problem at all.
Lot of times happened that I bidding for item when seller had this restriction, but after I sent a message if it's possible to sent to me here to central Europe there was no problem. (Lot of times from USA/GB/Germany/France/etc.)