Ebay Global Shipping Program EOL, being replaced by Ebay International Shipping

[tggzzz]

Sounds like how international used to work before big shops like Amazon started to handle the import process, and how it still works for smaller shops: the seller ships the item without charging any VAT or customs fees, the courier / postal company handles the import process, and charges you the VAT, duty and admin fees based on either pre payment or post payment. For example FedEx will either send me an email requesting payment before they will deliver, or if the fees are below something like €100, they'll send me an invoice within a week or so of delivering the package to be paid within two weeks.

It does feel like that.

Sure, it may be a downgrade from the old system in terms of convenience, but at least this should give you a proper invoice unlike Pitney Bowes dubious "trust us, it's been imported probably but we won't show you any paperwork you can take to your account" system.

Not a problem for me.

This won't show you the exact costs up front, but I can usually estimate it pretty well since the VAT is well known and in the EU you can look up duty in the TARIC database. Although finding the right code can be a challenge, but googling for something like "soldering iron tariff" or "hs code" will usually help.

Possibly, possibly not.

Where would eBay get that information? I presume from the category the seller chose for the item, but

• do the categories align with the HS codes?
• we've all seen items listed in bizarrely incorrect categories

What happens when, not if, the shipping company chooses an "unexpected" HS category?

[alm]

What happens when, not if, the shipping company chooses an "unexpected" HS category?

In my experience shipping companies will usually pick something that is in the ball park but not correct unless the seller includes the HS code on the customs declaration. Fortunately in the EU this usually doesn't make a big difference in duty fees whether something is labeled "computer parts" or "oscilloscope parts". You can always appeal the decision if you want. I once received an item sold as "guaranteed working" which was DOA. I complained to the seller, who gave me a partial refund. And then appealed the import fees to the shipping company, stating that the value had been incorrectly stated since it was a broken item, who forwarded my appeal to the customs authority, who after some months gave me a refund.

[m k]

Tax deductions may differ depending who is accepted as an actual importer.

[factory]

In the UK at least there haven't been any extra charges for a few years now, the VAT is collected by ebay in checkout for; EIS, GSP and regular shipping chosen by the seller.
You can see the charge by clicking on "view tax invoice" in the order details and it'll tell you the tax rate & amount collection "VAT collected by eBay in line with UK legislation", I believe the EU does the same.
Examples, the manuals with EIS the rate was 0%, an item of TE with EIS/GSP the rate was 20%.

Edit: the % rate seems to be based on the category the item was listed under, items in incorrect categories may have no charge or a charge it shouldn't have.

An item of TE sent via USPS directly to the UK, had VAT collected by ebay, the parcel should have a reference of "code paid" on the shipping label, I don't receive many sent without EIS or GSP.

David

Maybe this got missed, note the edit.

In the UK at least, the price show in the auction or BIN listing includes the tax, if it's in a category that has 0% tax rate then the price is the same as shown in the country it's listed in.
To see the price difference, change the dot co dot uk, to dot com or dot de etc.

For example a HP manual listed under business/industrial in the "Test Equipment Manuals & Books" category is 0% rated, but if they list under consumer electronics, radio communication equipment "Manuals & Magazines" category you get tax added.
Of course this works both ways, if a seller goes with the ebay suggested category, when listing items you can get test equipment listed under the TE books category at 0%.

You have to know what it should be and try & get the seller to correct the error, some of course don't want to know.

I guess it's too early in the changeover from GSP to EIS, for comments on the subject I started this thread about.

David

[tggzzz]

I suspect it would be useful if other people could try to get answers to questions like these from fleabay. The consistency (or otherwise) of the responses will indicate how much ebay's responses can be trusted.

The screenshot shows an example of the issues...
The item is being shipped using the eIS.

Will I or won't I be hit by a $800+ bill when this is delivered?

I can't square that with a previous eBay CSR response, particularly the first paragraph.

Thank you for writing to eBay with regard to eBay International Shipping (eIS). I will definitely help you with answering your questions regarding Import charges. Before I proceed, I would like to share with that if there is any Import cost charged for an item then you will be able to see the Import cost on the listing page itself.
 
1. If there is no Import charges on the listing page or checkout page, then system will not inform about the amount shipping service will charge you during delivery. For that you will be required to contact the shipping service before placing your order.
 
2. If there is no Import charges on the listing page or checkout page, then system will not inform about the admin/processing fees. It completely depends upon the shipping service due to which we do not have any idea how much they will be charging.
 
3. If you select the sort option as "lowest price + P&P", then based upon that system will show you the postage cost. If postage is free then it will show as "Free delivery". Postage cost doesn't include Import charges and tax.

[factory]

OK, ebay in the UK/EU are only required to collect VAT for orders up to £135 or 150Euro.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/selling-policies/tax-policy?id=4348



David

[alm]

The screenshot shows an example of the issues...
The item is being shipped using the eIS. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294805147555
Will I or won't I be hit by a $800+ bill when this is delivered?

I can't square that with a previous eBay CSR response, particularly the first paragraph.

My understanding of their response is that if the costs are listed on the page, eBay will handle the customs process and this is what you'll pay to eBay. If there are no fees on the page, like on this page for me, eBay won't handle the customs process, and the shipping company will bill you based on the declared value. But you'll pay VAT etc either way.

[m k]

I didn't see a single old style priced item, cheap or not.
So all taxes were missing but I understand that extra costs, after shipping, are customs only.

Assumed .com private
Shipping:
GBP 10.00 (approx EUR 11.36) Economy Shipping. See detailsfor shipping
International shipment of items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.
Located in: Caterham, United Kingdom

So the way of the ebay land has changed.
At least it knew that around here Germany and Poland are not international.

Wrong item location, deliberate or not, is still a problem.

Odd that here co.uk Endoscope had no customs warning.

Postage:
US $67.00 (approx £54.79) eBay International Standard Delivery. See detailsfor postage
Located in: Farmingdale, New Jersey, United States

Same from .com

Shipping:
US $67.00 (approx EUR 62.25) eBay International Standard Delivery. See detailsfor shipping
International shipment of items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.
Located in: Farmingdale, New Jersey, United States

[tggzzz]

The screenshot shows an example of the issues...
The item is being shipped using the eIS. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294805147555
Will I or won't I be hit by a $800+ bill when this is delivered?

I can't square that with a previous eBay CSR response, particularly the first paragraph.

My understanding of their response is that if the costs are listed on the page, eBay will handle the customs process and this is what you'll pay to eBay. If there are no fees on the page, like on this page for me, eBay won't handle the customs process, and the shipping company will bill you based on the declared value. But you'll pay VAT etc either way.

I expect to pay the relevant tax and import duties to someone. That is not a problem.

If I want to buy something for say £100 or £1000, that is fine because I can make an informed decision as to whether to proceed or abort.

What is intolerable is to be offered something for £100 with no indication of what it will end up costing.  It might, for all I know, end up being £160, i.e. a 60% uplift. (20% VAT, 20% import duties, and the shipping company adding yet another £20 for their admin).

EBay say I will have.to ask the shipping company. Do you think they will reply?!

[alm]

EBay say I will have.to ask the shipping company. Do you think they will reply?!

Would you even know which shipping company to ask? The big ones like UPS and FedEx have documents on their website listing charges, for example this document for FedEx US. The admin fees for FedEx are listed under "Disbursement Fee (may be identified as
Advancement Fee or Duty Handling Fee in certain countries)" as "Greater of $12 or 2% of duty, tax, and merchandise processing fee charges" unless you are importing something like live animals or have a package containing more than three products that are all listed separately on the airway bill (Additional Entry Line Items, per line over 3 lines). FedEx UK will have slightly different prices in GBP.

VAT is usually the same rate for most electronics products (20% for the UK according to Google), and duties is set by your government depending on the type of product. I can't remember buying something that had 20% duty. Most of the electronics stuff I buy is 0% duty or something like 5%. But this is EU, not UK. I can usually make a pretty accurate estimate based on this and the admin fees my local shipping companies charge.

[tggzzz]

EBay say I will have.to ask the shipping company. Do you think they will reply?!

Would you even know which shipping company to ask?

I've asked eBay CSRs. A bit early for a response.

One of their responses did contain answers. I don't see how they can answer this question, since their partners choose the delivery shippers.

The big ones like UPS and FedEx have documents on their website listing charges, for example this document for FedEx US. The admin fees for FedEx are listed under "Disbursement Fee (may be identified as
Advancement Fee or Duty Handling Fee in certain countries)" as "Greater of $12 or 2% of duty, tax, and merchandise processing fee charges" unless you are importing something like live animals or have a package containing more than three products that are all listed separately on the airway bill (Additional Entry Line Items, per line over 3 lines). FedEx UK will have slightly different prices in GBP.

VAT is usually the same rate for most electronics products (20% for the UK according to Google), and duties is set by your government depending on the type of product. I can't remember buying something that had 20% duty. Most of the electronics stuff I buy is 0% duty or something like 5%. But this is EU, not UK. I can usually make a pretty accurate estimate based on this and the admin fees my local shipping companies charge.

Yeah. Everybody needs to become a shipping expert, and to know which buttons to press when it doesn't go as expected.

[alm]

Yeah. Everybody needs to become a shipping expert, and to know which buttons to press when it doesn't go as expected.

It's definitely a step back in terms of convenience, but no worse than it was before the eBay Global Shipping Program (does remembering that make me old?), or for sellers not selling via the Global Shipping Program (I'm guessing they'll no longer have a choice with EIS). The local postal service here has a page describing how to calculate the import fees and listing their admin fees, and the duty rates for some products people commonly buy: phones, shoes, etc. I'm sure they get many questions about it.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Will it address the issue of 20$ shipping for power supplies but 50$ shipping for manuals?

[tggzzz]

Yeah. Everybody needs to become a shipping expert, and to know which buttons to press when it doesn't go as expected.

It's definitely a step back in terms of convenience, but no worse than it was before the eBay Global Shipping Program (does remembering that make me old?), or for sellers not selling via the Global Shipping Program

A 60% uplift (to pick a figure) is more than an inconvenience, especially if an incorrectly high rate is assigned by the shipper and has to - somehow, hopefully - be corrected.

Yes, the GSP is excellent. EBay reverting to something crappy in order to make more money is no better than reverting to horses rather than cars, having your bandwidth restricted so "other people can be better served", or MS removing the 3D clues in GUIs and reverting the grotty 1980 style flattie GUIs

[m k]

Shipping terms are not how item is shipped or where it ends.
It's how things are paid.
Of course it may end there but usually not, and you pay something extra.

EXW means that you must go and pick it up or pay somebody to do so.

FOB is not moving either if you're not telling the target.
Some other F category end points can be quite interesting.
It's also quite possible that port stop accepting stuff without destinations after port.

C category is on the destination side, but seems to be little hazy.
Some use word port and others word place for same thing, possibly a size thing.

CIF in itself is not very clear.
Example picture is many times before the destination port, obviously that is not possible.
Actual situation is that the item is on the soil of the destination but not in economy.
Imported cars are usually CIF, or CFR but in this context it's the same.
Port area is obviously limited so stuff start costing more after short time if not moved.
So if at that point imported cars are not sold the importer must start paying.
No good so importer imports less, no good economy suffers.
So tax free zones and free ports are created and stuff can go out of the port tax free.
It's also possible that stuff go back out to the sea.
One possibility is also that workers go to tax free zone and goods are not even intended to be imported.
Clearly big boys business is this CIF.

Other general C category things are Cargo Paid To CPT and Cargo and Insurance Paid CIP.
There risk is possibly something else than what you think, but general location shouldn't be a problem.
I wouldn't use those without own or known port operators.

Then the D category, only sane level after EXW and FOB.
There the actual export part is also covered by one entity.
The chain should be
Delivered At Terminal DAT -
Delivered At Place DAP -
Delivered Duty Paid DDP.
Delivered at Place Unloaded DPU seems to have multiple meanings, maybe it's just some wording or size of the item.

DDP is door to door.
DAP is also door to door but you must do the customs clearance.
Some use DPU like DAP and others like DAT.

Our DAP case is simple, when item arrives a message is sent to buyer.
Then customs messages the forwarder and item moves.

Customs warehouse is also perfectly fine delivery location, if one is easily available.
At least it used to be, back in the day.

Terminal in DAT is item dependent.
Different destination parcels must be out of the container so different warehouse is needed.
Forwarder can have their own customs warehouse and actual customs can have theirs.

Once upon a time I tried to get few plastic flip door computer parts from Taiwan.
Used shipping method was FOB, air cargo was a clear possibility, but it wasn't.

[m k]

I'm still having these tax differences.
Must be a UK thing.

.com
Shipping:
AU $368.50 (approx EUR 227.16) Australia Post International Courier. See detailsfor shipping
International shipment of items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.
Located in: Ottoway, Australia

.co.uk
Postage:
AU $368.50 (approx £199.61) Australia Post International Courier. See detailsfor postage
Located in: Ottoway, Australia

[tggzzz]

Shipping terms are not how item is shipped or where it ends.

It would help if fleabay would explicitly, unambigously, and correctly, use industry standard terms to describe what's included in the price they display.

They don't, and I doubt they ever will.

[m k]

(should be generally coherent)

Local pickup is clearly EXW.

F and C categories were missing, or I didn't see any.
All cars were shipping not specified.
All large items that had shipping specified were door to door.

Used engine of a car, free shipping
Shipping:
US $93.13 (approx EUR 85.72) eBay International Shipping
. See detailsfor shipping
Located in: Homer City, Pennsylvania, United States
Duties:
US $54.09 (approx. EUR 49.79) - Estimate, final at checkout

I don't know how much duty is but 3% is around expected level.
Free shippping was in subject text.

Another used engine
Shipping:
US $2,000.00 (approx EUR 1,840.86) Standard International Shipping. See detailsfor shipping
International shipment of items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.
Located in: Washington, New Jersey, United States

Here I started thinking that maybe the first one is a complete car.
Also, one completely different thing, what is engine, what it includes, the second item is with the gearbox and first one is under the hood.
But it is still door to door, there are no other delivery destinations than my address.
Customs clearance would be on me.

If item arrives through air it goes to carrier's warehouse.
It's not going to stop before, not even if it is not paid.
Early stop would mean that it stays in a plane, loading area or in other vehicle, no way.
If its cargo cost is not cleared it shouldn't be in the plane at all but errors happen and if that happens it is not a buyer's problem, or seller's, if they were not loading it.

Local post said once that unknown receiver is also covered, round the globe.
Can't say how it is with other carriers but for sure they are not going to take it on them.

Some incoterms,
using FOB as FCA is generally fine, FCA sort of includes FOB and carrier understands.
But being exact, FOB is for on water freight only, FCA then is general carrier and exact spot.
An example, a truck is collecting a milk can, position is defined as a milk platform of a dairy farm.
But who is loading.
FOB is easy, on board is when the chip carries the weight.
Airplane is also easy, delivery truck driver it is not.
Train is also out of truck driver's reach.
So truck is only questionable, but it is not, it's like any other buying thing, you will take it with you.
If double bagger carries your groceries it's more than FCA, it's FOB, when FCA is more like FAS.

I've never bought anything as big as a car from abroad but it is generally no different than smaller things.
There are still warehouses and customs clearances but some nuances may appear.
Like when transport ends to a restricted area and you can't go and get it, harbor area may be one of those.
In a case of a car it may also be required to be scaled, so maybe somebody must drive it and so on.

What we used back in the day when closest customs warehouse was behind the corner was CIP or DAT/DPU, depending how it is understood.
We also had an extra local insurance, then you at least had a local somebody to deal with, maybe not anymore, and contract papers were more or less understandable, at least the language was familiar, sort of.
For now I couldn't find any of those old style free zones, maybe it was special already back them but we didn't know it since it simply was there and available.

But how ever it is, if you are giving a place where to deliver then that is the spot up to where you are paying the shipping, customs clearance is not changing that.
What customs clearance is in practice is another thing, here regular parcel is few internet clicks.
But even if customs clearance is something complicated the shipping is still door to door and cost is the same, customs clearance is not moving the item, so not exactly part of shipping.
If earlier scaling and driving happens it's still not shipping, it's customs clearance.
Other thing is if you can't do customs clearance, maybe it's far away, then you pay, but you know the situation before hand.
Here local post charge for regular parcel is 5€, if memory serves, not much anyway, if the item is not 2€, new EU protectionism thing is that all values are taxed, despite the cost.

Even carrier web pages have some problems with incoterms but that's probably because explanations are too general, for now one can probably expect that new 2020 incoterms are already old enough.
But anyway, if ebay is giving destinations, at least in my case, all are D category DAP/DPU, DDP is sort of uncertain, logged in .co.uk didn't change anything, subject to customs part was still missing.
Difference between DAP and DPU for regular parcel is most likely non existent, if item is big or heavy unloading can be a difference, but that is also known before hand.
I tried to find something reasonable from UK using .co.uk but none was actually from UK so DDP stay uncertain, for now, China is too far.

An anecdote, minimum trackable from Sweden to Finland is over 20€, stamps are cheaper, non trackable not so much.
Seems that Post Nord has different lines for parcels with stamps and without stamps.
Here local post is splitting, letters and parcels to different companies, letter post is in legally must do category.

[m k]

An addendum from the lost world.

Back then when papers were written and counters were without plex the person who was filling customs papers was possibly also filling a slot for importer, and exporter.
Item's official importer/exporter is the one who is entitled to tax refund.

[m k]

One more.

General insurance is standard amount by weight, local also.
So better be cautious with light stuff.

And an anecdote.
Back in the day when cranes were swinging there were incoterms between FAS and FOB.
1 is on pier, 2 on ship and fraction somewhere in between.
If memory serves insurance went so that the final location of dropped cargo decided who pays.
I guess bulk freight still has those fractions.

[factory]

I suspect it would be useful if other people could try to get answers to questions like these from fleabay. The consistency (or otherwise) of the responses will indicate how much ebay's responses can be trusted.

The screenshot shows an example of the issues...
The item is being shipped using the eIS. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294805147555
Will I or won't I be hit by a $800+ bill when this is delivered?

I can't square that with a previous eBay CSR response, particularly the first paragraph.

Thank you for writing to eBay with regard to eBay International Shipping (eIS). I will definitely help you with answering your questions regarding Import charges. Before I proceed, I would like to share with that if there is any Import cost charged for an item then you will be able to see the Import cost on the listing page itself.
 
1. If there is no Import charges on the listing page or checkout page, then system will not inform about the amount shipping service will charge you during delivery. For that you will be required to contact the shipping service before placing your order.
 
2. If there is no Import charges on the listing page or checkout page, then system will not inform about the admin/processing fees. It completely depends upon the shipping service due to which we do not have any idea how much they will be charging.
 
3. If you select the sort option as "lowest price + P&P", then based upon that system will show you the postage cost. If postage is free then it will show as "Free delivery". Postage cost doesn't include Import charges and tax.

Seems ePay customer services are a waste of space, they clearly did not spot the item in question does not have "ebay international shipping" EIS, but actually has "ebay international standard delivery" EISD these are not the same service.  The item has since been updated, to have no international shipping.

Plus the item exceeds the $2500 limit for both GSP and EIS, which means you have to deal with the shipping & customs if an auction listing goes above the limit.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/global-shipping-program?id=4646



https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/ebay-international-shipping-program?id=5348



David

[alm]

Plus the item exceeds the $2500 limit for both GSP and EIS, which means you have to deal with the shipping & customs if an auction listing goes above the limit.

The US government requires the shipping company or someone else to submit Electronic Export Information for exports over $2500, which involves extra paperwork that the exporter would have to send to the shipping company. I'm not even sure if all shipping companies can deal with this. USPS won't deal with this and requires the sender to file themselves or through another agent. I imagine eBay does not want to deal with this. Blame the US government (and other governments) for making international so complicated, or try joining a union of countries in which free trade is allowed and within which this kind of paperwork is not necessary  .

It is sloppy if eBay offers the shipping method while it's not possible with this price. They should add a note that this method is only applicable if the item sells under $2500.

[factory]

All of this is kind of irrelevant, unless you are buying items over $2500 from the US, I never have and probably never will.

This thread is supposed to be about using ebay GSP & EIS (and not EISD) to import ebay items from the US, no paperwork* involved.

*unless you are buying TE manuals in dead tree format.

David

[tggzzz]

Seems ePay customer services are a waste of space, they clearly did not spot the item in question does not have "ebay international shipping" EIS, but actually has "ebay international standard delivery" ESID these are not the same service.

That's my conclusion too. Their CSRs seem to confuse GSP and eIS, giving responses (not answers) that are mutually inconsistent and even self inconsistent.

[m k]

From my location and as a buyer this is pretty clear.
If VAT is visible it is done, it's also visible all the way, from ebay page to money click.
If no VAT and item is from behind the wall local customs start nagging, but everything is still internet electrical.

Is UK different?

Seller, parcel vs. freight and other nuances are of course very different.

eISD page still has that combination possibility.
Is it outdated? Maybe it's reconsidered.
Max size there was 84 inches, actual carriers have more, maybe ebay is subtracting a safety something.