EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Jan Audio on October 04, 2019, 04:29:15 pm
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Hi, i had this experience with ebay, i dont like to be a test subject :
Looking for rare chips.
Located cheapest in china.
I looked further, in Taiwan selling the same for a bit more ( and a different color text paint ).
I like Taiwan quality, so i order them from Taiwan ( less chance to have fakes ).
I got my chips, everything was good.
Then i saw the dutch news, it was saying :
Research shows people willing to pay more for taiwanese products if they can buy the same in china.
As usual with the dutch NPO news they dont tell the whole story, where this research is from.
Then i decided to order more of these parts, i looked into "my ebay", searched for the order so i can order the same again.
Then i see the seller is located in china and the price is cheaper, i am 100% sure i ordered from Taiwan.
Ordering again from china, since no one in Taiwan sells these chips.
So i am used as test subject by ebay, i really dont like it, who can you trust ?, not ebay, facebook, or google with the psychological test they do on people.
If there is a market for these test microsoft will follow for sure, i hope not.
Where did the extra money go ?, is paypal also involved ?
What do you think of that ?, please leave a comment.
bye
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I once ordered some high drain 18650 batteries in late 2016 batteries from a German seller who sold many things and had good feedback. I think were under a brand called Sigelei, when they arrived they looked dodgy and discovered it was a fake as they had spaces inbetween the writing and discrepancies in the graphics and styling.
I contacted the seller who at first said they believed they were genuine and were given all the paperwork some of which they showed me where they got them from which was someone with an Indian name selling them in Birmingham from a house on a residential street. I found more information about these particular fakes and forwarded it but then the seller gave me a refund, withdrew the listings and told me it has all been sorted.
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Why would you think eBay or PayPal are involved? Chinese sellers made the data that the Dutch News research reported, they know fully well people will pay extra for the perceived quality of products sold from Taiwan. You received your product, it worked for you, and you felt good about your purchase; you paid extra for a perception of quality. That's MARKETING 101.
:-//
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This is interesting. I just assume that it all comes from China, no matter what the "Country" fields says. I don't think I ever made a purchasing decision based on this. Unless it is a real US seller with stated 2-3 day delivery time, of course.
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Why would you think eBay or PayPal are involved? Chinese sellers made the data that the Dutch News research reported, they know fully well people will pay extra for the perceived quality of products sold from Taiwan. You received your product, it worked for you, and you felt good about your purchase; you paid extra for a perception of quality. That's MARKETING 101.
Yup. That's still deceptive though, thus potentially illegal in some countries, strictly speaking. But yes, that's an ultra-common marketing tool, and very often used even by big brands, just on the verge of legality, to give an impression of quality. The origin of products is one very common trick.
And yes, I have also on occasion ordered stuff from eBay from a seller that was supposedly based in Europe and sending FROM an european country, and turned out the package came directly from China. I KNEW the product was chinese, but I actually ordered it from Europe so that it would arrive sooner. I didn't complain, but I could have. It's not the country where the seller is based that's really the matter here, but it's that eBay SHOWS that the item will be sent from a specific country, and that's what is deceptive. This is clearly written in the delivery part that a given item is LOCATED at a given place. If this info is wrong, then it's deceptive. Not a matter of quality of product; just a matter of giving false information to the buyer.
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If this info is wrong, then it's deceptive. Not a matter of quality of product; just a matter of giving false information to the buyer.
Yes, but it is the seller being deceptive, not eBay. eBay isn't selling anything but a place for others to transact business. Blaming eBay is like blaming a newspaper for misleading classified ads.
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If this info is wrong, then it's deceptive. Not a matter of quality of product; just a matter of giving false information to the buyer.
Yes, but it is the seller being deceptive, not eBay. eBay isn't selling anything but a place for others to transact business. Blaming eBay is like blaming a newspaper for misleading classified ads.
Oh, yep.
You could argue that eBay should check, but thinking about it, it can't really do that. Note that the country where the seller is based COULD be verified, but it's not even the issue there, and this is where it can get misleading.
Under each item, the mention "Item location:" is written. I think it's a misleading information from eBay. If it stated ONLY the country of origin of the seller, you would not necessarily assume anything about where the item itself is located. A seller has a right to ship items from anywhere in the world. Nothing prevents them from that, and any seller can do it at some point without necessarily being ill-intentioned. This can be part of how their business works; or even for private seller, you can sometimes ship an item from somewhere else for any reason.
The really misleading mention IMO (and as I said, I got trapped by it once) is this "ITEM LOCATION" thing. And there, eBay is responsible. eBay should just change the mention to something less misleading, because as it is, as a buyer, you have every right to THINK this is where the item is really LOCATED. Words have a meaning. If the mention was changed to "seller location", then it would be a lot less misleading... As it's written, eBay contributes to stating deceptive facts.
Just a thought.
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But the item location does not have to match the seller location. You as a seller can specify any address the item is actually located at. You can sell multiple items located in different places.
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I order stuff that is listed as Hong Kong because it has a better postal service, it comes from someplace else in China. I order from China and it comes from countries I can't even begin to spell. I'm just amazed anything comes at all.
I sell something on ebay. Sales have been so so. I just raised the price $30 in order to attract more customers. Felt I needed to create the right perceived value.
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There are quite a few that advertise on ebay.de with german stock and a local item location, but packaging, customs marking and shipping duration indicates that it was imported on order. There are some chinese shipping centers next to airports and harbors, so i guess for rarely ordered items they just ship directly.
Anyway, address or identity verification services costs real money (in the range of 10-20 Euro), should anyone need such a thing, so ebay would not have much from it, unless disputes are ongoing over fraudulent offers. It is hard to argue if the country of origin is different when the goods are as described, its the goods you bought.
Over here there are brands with a regions name in it (mostly food), where selling under such a name could make it a case of trademark abuse/fraud.
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But the item location does not have to match the seller location. You as a seller can specify any address the item is actually located at. You can sell multiple items located in different places.
I know it doesn't have to; but it seems like the default value is the seller location, if you don't explicitely set it to something else. It seems to make sense at first, but it's still a bit problematic; it makes it much too easy for sellers to conveniently "forget" about setting it to the real location. (I for one have sold quite a few things on eBay and have never ever touched this item location thing...)
I agree the responsbility is upon the seller's shoulders here; but I do think eBay should make some changes so that it's a bit less easy to mislead buyers. And, as I said, I never complained about it, but I do hope that, as a buyer, it's a valid reason for complaining. Again, if I buy something partly because I know it's located in Europe and not in China, I want that to be true. Whatever my reasons are, I don't want misleading information. I don't have a problem with that being 100% the seller's responsibility; but as always, anything eBay can do to limit dodgy seller behaviors, should be done.
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There are quite a few that advertise on ebay.de with german stock and a local item location, but packaging, customs marking and shipping duration indicates that it was imported on order. There are some chinese shipping centers next to airports and harbors, so i guess for rarely ordered items they just ship directly.
(...)
Well, many people actually live off selling chinese goods, for an elevated price, on eBay. Nothing wrong with that per se. That's classic import/export sales that people have been doing for centuries...
But if buyers buy from them rather than directly from China, unless they are completely stupid, they do it for a reason: they expect the seller to 1/ handle some stock, so buyers get the items faster, 2/ have checked the goods they resell, so that it's less risky for the buyers than buying them directly... basic reseller service... If the reseller doesn't provide any service like that, they are just parasiting Ebay.
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There are quite a few that advertise on ebay.de with german stock and a local item location, but packaging, customs marking and shipping duration indicates that it was imported on order. There are some chinese shipping centers next to airports and harbors, so i guess for rarely ordered items they just ship directly.
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Same here in the U.S. I've purchased items listed as "shipping from the U.S." and the product comes up when filtering your search for items "within the U.S."
But when I order, tracking number gets provided right away... origin shows its shipping from CHINO, CA, but it takes over a week before any activity shows up... when I finally receive the item, its clearly been shipped from China.
It's the sellers being deceptive and not EBay. Below is what tracking starts off looking like:
CHINO, CA 91710
Sep 9, 2019
1:46am
Tracking number provided
CHINO, CA 91710
Sep 8, 2019
9:36am
Merchant Order Receipt Notification, USPS Awaiting Item
CHINO, CA 91710
Sep 8, 2019
10:06am
Departed Shipping Partner Facility, USPS Awaiting Item
CITY OF INDUSTRY, CA 91715
Sep 17, 2019
9:14pm
ORIGIN ACCEPTANCE
Sep 17, 2019
10:29pm
PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
...
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And if California enforces immigration rules(...)
:-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
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It was many years ago that I learned you can't trust anybody. A TV commercial suggested that by drinking a certain brand of beer I would attract Swedish blondes in bikinis and they would be all over me. It didn't work and I am pretty sure I did everything right (consuming a case of the thing). I am still waiting for the Swedish Bikini Team. I'm telling ya, you can't trust anybody these days.
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A TV commercial suggested that by drinking a certain brand of beer I would attract Swedish blondes in bikinis and they would be all over me. It didn't work and I am pretty sure I did everything right (...)
Damn, that bites.
I think you got it backwards though. Drinking beer would not do much. You should have made them drink the beer instead. Swedish girls are usually not last when it comes to having a good drink... ::)
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This is another type of reshipper behavior. Items shipped from China to US in bulk, then distributed by the almighty Chinese community in California.
Ever wonder how the Chinese can get 20% off Amazon gift cards despite devaluation of CNY? Tax fraud, done by the same people doing illegal imports.
They buy gift cards in US, claim tax deduction as business cost (for gifting), then sell them in China, make CNY, then wire money to US as family fund.
What´s the use of US-issued gift cards in China? Since when are they globally useful? Are you implying amazon does not pay tax for them?
Importing goods in a commercial volume is sooner or later getting the IRS on the plan, i guess.
If Uncle Sam takes less political asylums and religious workers from China, there will be less human trashes doing fake shipping and tax fraud in USA.
And if California enforces immigration rules, another half of Chinese human trashes will not end up there.
Would you please not call people human trash?
How big would you estimate this particular problem, given the distribution of the various crimes and their damage to society?
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How big would you estimate this particular problem, given the distribution of the various crimes and their damage to society?
Blueskull, I have sent you personal warning, please quit the Chinese politics on this forum. Thanks.
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That being said, I'd like if you can kindly get rid of other Chinese political posts before they got me triggered.
Your posts are the ones that get reported, stop being "triggered", simply do not respond.
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What do you think of that ?, please leave a comment.
I do not really understand your complaint. Maybe I am missing something.
The way I see it the essence of your purchase contract is that (1) in exchange for your agreed payment, (2) you receive the goods ordered and of specified quality, (3) to be delivered to you in a period agreed to.
I understand those conditions were fulfilled and I do not see any basis for complaint.
I do not believe the location from where the goods were shipped to you is of any consequence or forms any essential part of the contract.
If I contract with Joe's Roofing to fix my roof and for whatever reason he subcontracts with someone else, generally I have no basis to complain (if the work was done correctly) regardless of who did the work.
There are exceptions where the person doing the work is of the essence of the contract. Like if I hire Leonardo DiCaprio for a movie he can't turn around and tell me his cousin Joe the Roofer is going to do the acting in his stead.
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I dont think the seller changed anything, ebay did.
I think :
ebay is selling research information.
ebay changed the location and price to see if i buy instead of china.
then they sell the info from 1000 people to the news.
Am i realy crazy then ?
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I can't see how eBay would or could change a seller's location unless you tell me the sellers are also part of some nefarious plot.
I can't see it and I see no reason why eBay would have any interest in doing it.
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Facebook and google does.
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They change users' location and other data? Are you sure? I have never heard of this.
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Thats why i am posting.
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They change users' location and other data? Are you sure? I have never heard of this.
Thats why i am posting.
With the information you have provided so far I am inclined to think you are mistaken. I do not understand why they would change users' information and if they did there would be a huge outcry. As much as I may enjoy hating some of those big corps for now I have to go with "unconfirmed, doubtful".
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The seller tells eBay where he is located, and eBay doesn't verify it.
Or, the seller has an office in Taiwan and the warehouse is in China. Many companies have multiple locations so there is hardly anything deceptive about it. The buyer just needs to understand that he can't trust anything he hears and only half of what he sees. To add, don't believe anything you read either.
I'm not into rare parts (except 741 op amps) and I buy all of my components from DigiKey or Mouser. I have enough problems getting my projects to work without having to consider fake parts.
To quote Lily Tomlin:
No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up.
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How can you risk market dominance for a few cents and a fake location ?
Extra money is extra profit ( not the few cent, the information ).
I havent read ebays disclaimer either, they wont risk a thing.
Normally you wont notice such test, they can do.
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Hi, i had this experience with ebay, i dont like to be a test subject :
Looking for rare chips.
Located cheapest in china.
I looked further, in Taiwan selling the same for a bit more ( and a different color text paint ).
I like Taiwan quality, so i order them from Taiwan ( less chance to have fakes ).
I got my chips, everything was good.
Then i saw the dutch news, it was saying :
Research shows people willing to pay more for taiwanese products if they can buy the same in china.
As usual with the dutch NPO news they dont tell the whole story, where this research is from.
Then i decided to order more of these parts, i looked into "my ebay", searched for the order so i can order the same again.Then i see the seller is located in china and the price is cheaper, i am 100% sure i ordered from Taiwan.
Ordering again from china, since no one in Taiwan sells these chips.
So i am used as test subject by ebay, i really dont like it, who can you trust ?, not ebay, facebook, or google with the psychological test they do on people.
If there is a market for these test microsoft will follow for sure, i hope not.
Where did the extra money go ?, is paypal also involved ?
What do you think of that ?, please leave a comment.
bye
I leaving a comment, you read Dutch fake news? Its all about "culture" state of mind and what kind of behavioral it creates. bye
China post sorting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjdpz05u2DY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjdpz05u2DY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWgviZZi7lM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWgviZZi7lM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAJS9B4UpAY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAJS9B4UpAY)
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Now i understand why they use so much bubbles.
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I think this isn't really happening on ebay, although there are definitely other aspects of ebay deserving of criticism. But I find myself preferring to buy things from ebay over amazon. Amazon tends to push glowing reviews (often created by review farms) toward the top. And over time they have tried more and more to hide critical reviews by making them more difficult to get to, which is often where anything worth reading is hidden away from the front product pages. Ebay's review system is crap, but at least it is very obviously so.
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But I find myself preferring to buy things from ebay over amazon. Amazon tends to push glowing reviews (often created by review farms) toward the top.
Oh yeah. There's definitely a problem with Amazon reviews (I've lost trust completely), as to the topic here, regarding where the items are sent from, this is even worse with Amazon. You often don't have the slightest idea.
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Amazon is total crap, not even considering.
Now that you talk about amazon i can tell :
They told 10 years ago we going to use drones to deliver.
ALL NEWSPAPERS FRONT PAGE they got for free
I was asking about the accu...the news dont ask.
They still dont have that accus.
Why do they help these big american companys like that ?, or are they really dumb.
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Amazon is total crap, not even considering.
Now that you talk about amazon i can tell :
They told 10 years ago we going to use drones to deliver.
ALL NEWSPAPERS FRONT PAGE they got for free
I was asking about the accu...the news dont ask.
They still dont have that accus.
Why do they help these big american companys like that ?, or are they really dumb.
ALL NEWSPAPERS FRONT PAGE they got for free?? Really? Is that genius or what?
And we're still waiting for some proof of your allegations in the OP because they sound like totally made up.
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How can i proof it they changed it,
suppose i made screenshots of everything, still dont proof nothing.
What do you expect ?, just sharing my story.
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How can i proof it they changed it,
suppose i made screenshots of everything, still dont proof nothing.
What do you expect ?, just sharing my story.
I don't think there would be any kind of "proof" to provide here, as the location the items are shipped from is most likely NOT guaranteed by eBay's policies. (You could check this but I just doubt it.)
So the best you can do is just give negative feedback to the seller - and even that may be considered borderline, as nothing really prevents the seller from shipping from anywhere they see fit IMO (even though it can be misleading, as I said earlier...)
You could also suggest improvements to eBay. But that's probably as far as you can go here...
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Dont you believe these sorts of tests are happening on google and facebook ?, why not ebay.
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Dont you believe these sorts of tests are happening on google and facebook ?, why not ebay.
If I was a seller on EBay, and EBay changed my seller "location" to some other state or country for some "test" they want to run, I would be upset as a seller using and paying for their service.
The location information of the seller is always entered by the seller, and EBay has no right to change it.
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The location information of the seller is always entered by the seller, and EBay has no right to change it.
Not to say different items may be drop shipped from various places by 3rd party, not seller itself.
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How can i proof it they changed it,
suppose i made screenshots of everything, still dont proof nothing.
What do you expect ?, just sharing my story.
First of all, your proof would be package it arrived in, tracking information. Secondly there is nothing to prove. Place item is dispatched from and hence location in the listing may change. Seller if free to change it, nothing wrong with it. If you are so concerned about seller being in Taiwan or China, use should look where seller is located, not item.
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You all keep repeating.
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You all keep repeating.
Because truth won't change just to cater your feelings.
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I like Taiwan quality, so i order them from Taiwan ( less chance to have fakes ).
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I find "Taiwan quality" ironic since it's my understanding it was the epicenter of the capacitor plague circa 2000...
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Well, I thought Taiwan had kind of become the low-cost manufacturer for China, so making it a mark of quality is indeed funny.
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I have ordered a few things off ebay with "UK only" check box set.
When they arrive they have "Made in China" on them.
So might as well have bought them cheaper from China !
Quite a lot of Chinese buyers say they are in the UK when they arent.
Some are a bit cleverer and have a warehouse in the UK.
I bought some transistors from CHina that lasted until I unplugged my soldering iron.
The glitch down the maisn got into the amp and blew up teh transistors.
I replaced the transistors with some from RS Components who are a reputable company and despite me trying very hard they wouldnt fail off mains noise.
My general opinion is most items from China are junk. I now only buy empty PCB's from them as they seem to be good quality and very low price.
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It's not just this kind of thing. Over on a gaming forum for the Call of Cthulhu system, there's a thread discussing an eBay seller who is selling pirated copies of old scenarios and apparently eBay has been contacted several times to point out what is going on, but they've still not taken the sale down.
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I find "Taiwan quality" ironic since it's my understanding it was the epicenter of the capacitor plague circa 2000...
Stealing is bad.
Well, I thought Taiwan had kind of become the low-cost manufacturer for China, so making it a mark of quality is indeed funny.
I dont know, i still like Taiwan quality better for anything because they dont copy like China.
I had a helicopter from taiwan, the china clone was not so good.
If you can choose oscilloscope exactly the same thing, 1 made in china, 1 made in taiwan, you would be dumb to buy the china ?
Is there 1 thing china does not fake ?, its the : "made in china" logo.
If they smart they say "made in taiwan"
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I find "Taiwan quality" ironic since it's my understanding it was the epicenter of the capacitor plague circa 2000...
Stealing is bad.
Well, I thought Taiwan had kind of become the low-cost manufacturer for China, so making it a mark of quality is indeed funny.
I dont know, i still like Taiwan quality better for anything because they dont copy like China.
I had a helicopter from taiwan, the china clone was not so good.
If you can choose oscilloscope exactly the same thing, 1 made in china, 1 made in taiwan, you would be dumb to buy the china ?
Is there 1 thing china does not fake ?, its the : "made in china" logo.
If they smart they say "made in taiwan"
Jan, I agree, "Stealing is bad." ... There ought to be a law against it.
I don't totally disagree with your strategy. Buying from eBay/Asia is mine-field regarding quality. It's good to develop rules of thumb if they work for you. I also recognize that disreputable vendors introduce uncertainty by establishing distribution points not only in Taiwan/Hong Kong but also in western countries.
I think some of the big tech giants can foster an environment of corruption - either by intention or lack of sound over-sight. Profits take priority over transparency and fair business practices until the intervention of government or significant consumer back lash.
Now lets also look at Western Union, a company over 150 years old. They provide needed services regarding money transfer. However they've been the "bag-man" for unimaginable numbers of con-men. Once the cash is transferred to the criminals there is little recourse in getting it back.
Regarding 0scilloscope purchase - can you name a Taiwan 0scilloscope that isn't 50-100% actually made in the mainland?
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No example, sorry.
All scopes from taiwan are different then china scopes also.
Just wanted to have a example of a product people buying in this forum.
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No example, sorry.
All scopes from taiwan are different then china scopes also.
Just wanted to have a example of a product people buying in this forum.
Jan, Let me see if I got this straight...
"ALL scopes from taiwan are different then china scopes" but you have NO examples.
OK, that sounds good to me... ;D
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Make the example : a PC.
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Make the example : a PC.
... a Pointless Conversation :popcorn:
bye :)
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Jan, Let me see if I got this straight...
"ALL scopes from taiwan are different then china scopes" but you have NO examples.
OK, that sounds good to me... ;D
Just the same as with his claims that eBay changes the seller information without the seller's knowing. I have a feeling he lives in a state of confusion/conspiracy. Not worth engaging IMHO.
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Wrong subject.
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I personally don't know of scopes from tawainese companies. Scope made (manufactured) in Taiwan, yes. Often for chinese companies. ::)
So if it's just a matter of manufacturing, I'm not sure taiwanese plants do things better than chinese ones; they'll usually just do according to the odering company's requirements, and often cheaper. Do they manage to do both cheaper and better? I don't know. Show us proof.
And now if you actually know of 100% taiwanese scopes, please show us some as well.
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And now if you actually know of 100% taiwanese scopes, please show us some as well.
GW Instek is Taiwanese company. Some of their stuff is produced in China, not locally in Taiwan though. In any case, outsourcing production to Taiwan from China is rare, except fabless semiconductor production. It's almost always the other way around. Design in Taiwan, production in China. Why would you make production of cheap stuff where it's more expensive?
For example most computer component manufacturers have Taiwan headquarters. Also worlds largest and probably most advanced semiconductor foundry TSMC is Taiwan based as well.
Well, I thought Taiwan had kind of become the low-cost manufacturer for China, so making it a mark of quality is indeed funny.
:palm: Average income in Taiwan is many times higher than in China.
Nowadays low cost are places like Vietnam or Cambodia. Look where your printer is manufactured, you might be surprised.
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Many Taiwanese companies actually do their manufacturing in China. Pretty much like the rest of the world only much more. The economy of Taiwan is very closely tied to the economy of China which, IMHO, is a good thing because it means it is not in the interests of either side to upset the status quo. Hopefully their political paths and interests will converge over time and there can be a peaceful and advantageous reunification.
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ive had it before where ive ordered an item from a uk only search,then several weeks later asked the guy the uk postcode where it was beeing shipped from,he couldnt provide it!,i complained to ebay about it,anyway i got refunded,the parts finaly arrived,all china post markings,just another asshole saying there from the uk,hope it taught him a lesson!,makes me puke!!.
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I was thinking for PSU :
With the ender 3 pro you get a Taiwan PSU, because it dont catch fire.
You cant convince me Taiwan is cheaper quality, its better.
Meanwell brand is better then chinese brand.