Ebay is getting worse

[DavidDLC]

I received a defective unit, I need to pay for shipping to return it and get my money, sucks !

I cannot give negative feedback immediatelly, I need to wait seven days, really !

I sold an item, the buyer didn't pay, on the monthly fee they still charge for that, sucking even more.

What a crap system, unfortunatelly they are dominating the market well... a lot of people still uses them.

[elgonzo]

Try Amazon. I don't know about the US, but in Europe the seller is required to pay return postage if the item is defective or not as described.

Ho, hold your horses... Whether the seller has the pay for the return shipment depends on local legislation which might vary in this regard between EU countries.
It is not unheard of that the seller is only required to pay for the return shipment if the returned good exceeds a certain value...

[nowlan]

Doesnt paypal offer $45 for return shipping these days? I assume paypal since you mention ebay.

[smjcuk]

I get a mixed experience. Selling is much more painful than buying.

Sold a Lumia phone a week ago Friday. Said they'd pay for it on Monday as they couldnt transfer the cash until then. Fair enough. Monday came, nothing. Poked them on Tuesday. Was told yesterday that it wasn't the one his daughter wanted and he didn't want to pay for it any more. Negative feedback and seller fees claim raised.

I wouldn't mind but this its the third time ice tried to sell this phone.

However the postman mauled my nice Silvine 5mm squared exercise books and the company sent another 5 out next day no problems.

You win some and you lose some.

Human nature is more of a problem then eBay as a whole.

[Wilksey]

I have only really ever had issues as a buyer from German sellers believe it or not, namely just plain old ignoring your emails saying it doesn't work!

I find the most accommodating, once you get past the language barrier are the Chinese, although it takes 3 - 6 weeks for the items to arrive if they arrive damaged or not at all, they usually ask for a photo over the most obscure things?! But always in my experience rectify the issue at their cost almost immediately, you just have to wait for it another 3 - 6 weeks!  Bloody Hong Kong post.

UK sellers are hit or miss, I have had one item from Poland and it worked out fine.

The thing with Chinese sellers, even though they might have thousands if not more positive feedback responses, one negative hurts them and their shop, to the point where they literally beg you not to leave negative feedback.

To be honest, I have never left negative feedback for any Chinese seller and will always give a chance for people to redeem themselves as it were, but I guess some people are trigger happy and that is what they worry about.

So if you ever have an issue with a Chinese seller, threaten them with negative feedback (don't actually leave it unless you really have to) and 99% of the time they will sort it out, but as I say, most cases you don't need to threaten, they are quite reasonable sellers and actually seem to care what you think of them and their shops!  Novel eh!

[smjcuk]

I have only really ever had issues as a buyer from German sellers believe it or not, namely just plain old ignoring your emails saying it doesn't work!

I find the most accommodating, once you get past the language barrier are the Chinese, although it takes 3 - 6 weeks for the items to arrive if they arrive damaged or not at all, they usually ask for a photo over the most obscure things?! But always in my experience rectify the issue at their cost almost immediately, you just have to wait for it another 3 - 6 weeks!  Bloody Hong Kong post.

UK sellers are hit or miss, I have had one item from Poland and it worked out fine.

The thing with Chinese sellers, even though they might have thousands if not more positive feedback responses, one negative hurts them and their shop, to the point where they literally beg you not to leave negative feedback.

To be honest, I have never left negative feedback for any Chinese seller and will always give a chance for people to redeem themselves as it were, but I guess some people are trigger happy and that is what they worry about.

So if you ever have an issue with a Chinese seller, threaten them with negative feedback (don't actually leave it unless you really have to) and 99% of the time they will sort it out, but as I say, most cases you don't need to threaten, they are quite reasonable sellers and actually seem to care what you think of them and their shops!  Novel eh!

Couldn't agree more. The Chinese are great to deal with.

[Corporate666]

I received a defective unit, I need to pay for shipping to return it and get my money, sucks !

The return conditions are stated right below the bid/buy-it-now button.   Did you read them?  If so, did you agree to them by purchasing the item but then didn't want to abide by them when they became relevant?

I cannot give negative feedback immediatelly, I need to wait seven days, really !

Negative for what?  If the seller is refusing to take something back, sure.  If it's because you were unhappy with the terms you agreed to, or because luck dealt you a defective unit, it hardly seems fair.

I sold an item, the buyer didn't pay, on the monthly fee they still charge for that, sucking even more.

eBay credits sellers for final value fees on unpaid items.  Simply file an unpaid item case and you will be credited.  You can also re-list the item for free.

What a crap system, unfortunatelly they are dominating the market well... a lot of people still uses them.

I agree it is crap, but IMO it's mostly due to unreasonable buyers.  Such as... agreeing to a return policy and then being upset that they are expected to abide by that agreement and leaving a negative for being expected to live up to their agreement.   

I'm not saying it's necessarily the case in your situation, but it sure seems like you're not owning it.

[schopi68]

I had the most crappy thing on ebay with ebay itself. I bought an 50$ item from usa. The seller was using the ebay global shipping program, so he handed the item over to ebay.

I made two mistakes:
- i've been logged on into ebay usa instead of ebay germany (so the ebay germany support was not responsible afterwards)
- i didn't check my send to address in ebay before i hit the direct-buy buttom.

So my "packstation" address was associated with this shipment. (More information about packstations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation
Packstation works fine even for international shipments if the item is shipped via DHL. As i did not know, what mail service will be used by ebay global shipping i directly mailed via ebay to the seller to send it to my "normal" address. He read my mail to late, so the item was shipped by Hermes pacel service. I could track the item up to my town... tried to contact hermes - but they did not react for two days then the item was sent back from Germany to the US ("unknown address").

After two weeks i got an email from ebay global shipping telling me to send my correct address otherwise the item will be destroyed (!) after 7 days. I sent it.
Two weeks later i asked for information about the shipment. They told me that the item was still under possession of the mail service and they do not get any feedback.

I asked Hermes - they told me that the item had been to ebay sent back because my address was wrong (arghh..) This was referring to the first shipment...

so i went back to ebay, asking for further inquiry. After several emails where i had to explain what happend and that they should contact hermes to get the item sent to me... they closed the whole correspondence with me, telling me that i ebay is not responsible for items not delivered due to a wrong address and they will refuse any further contact to me in this case. 

This took 2 months... so getting money back via paypal guarantees was also impossible.

[Corporate666]

The problem is that eBay goes out of its way to make users ignore the return policy and see its own "buyer safeguards" and "money back guarantee". Plus some sellers try to flout the law with their return policies.

Not true.  Case in point - here's the first item I found when looking at "power supply"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30V-5A-110V-Precision-Variable-DC-Power-Supply-Digital-Adjustable-Lab-w-clip-New-/171607017649?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f49348b1

It's very clear right at the top -> "30 days money back, buyer pays return shipping".   As for the eBay guarantee, it says "Get the item you ordered or get your money back.  Covers your purchase price and original shipping.".

It doesn't say or even imply that return shipping is covered - in fact, it specifically says the buyer pays return shipping.

Interesting fact: "sold as seen" has no legal standing in the UK. You can still expect the item to work properly, unless the seller also specifically says that it is broken. That's why some sellers say "untested, sold as broken".

For items purchased from a business, yes.  For items purchased from an individual, no.  But it only applies to intra-UK transactions.  If someone in the UK buys something from someone in the USA, for example, it doesn't apply.

[Corporate666]

I had the most crappy thing on ebay with ebay itself. I bought an 50$ item from usa. The seller was using the ebay global shipping program, so he handed the item over to ebay.

The Global shipping program is a total mess.

They sold it to sellers as solving all the problems of international shipping, and they sold it to buyers on the same basis.  I don't know anyone who likes it - it's expensive, slow, makes for unhappy buyers and sellers and doesn't even reliably deliver.  They also make it *really* difficult to know how you can opt out of it.

I just think it's rather amusing that for as harsh and strict as eBay is to sellers (unless you sell thousands of items a month, you are allowed exactly TWO 1 or 2 star ratings per *year* or you lose your discount) - yet eBay treats buyers infinitely worse than they demand their own sellers treat buyers.  The hypocrisy is palpable!

[Rick Law]

I received a defective unit, I need to pay for shipping to return it and get my money, sucks !

I cannot give negative feedback immediatelly, I need to wait seven days, really !

I sold an item, the buyer didn't pay, on the monthly fee they still charge for that, sucking even more.

What a crap system, unfortunatelly they are dominating the market well... a lot of people still uses them.

Actually, eBay does not dominate, not even close!

"Alibaba is more valuable than Amazon and eBay combined..."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2014/09/22/alibaba-vs-amazon-who-will-win-the-global-e-commerce-war/

"Alibaba has more sales than Amazon and eBay combined..."
http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/7/5690596/meet-alibaba-the-ecommerce-giant-with-more-sales-than-amazon-and-ebay

"10 Reasons Why Alibaba Blows Away Amazon And EBay..."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterloeb/2014/04/11/10-reasons-why-alibaba-is-a-worldwide-leader-in-e-commerce/http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterloeb/2014/04/11/10-reasons-why-alibaba-is-a-worldwide-leader-in-e-commerce/

[all_repair]

I had the most crappy thing on ebay with ebay itself. I bought an 50$ item from usa. The seller was using the ebay global shipping program, so he handed the item over to ebay.

The Global shipping program is a total mess.

They sold it to sellers as solving all the problems of international shipping, and they sold it to buyers on the same basis.  I don't know anyone who likes it - it's expensive, slow, makes for unhappy buyers and sellers and doesn't even reliably deliver.  They also make it *really* difficult to know how you can opt out of it.

I just think it's rather amusing that for as harsh and strict as eBay is to sellers (unless you sell thousands of items a month, you are allowed exactly TWO 1 or 2 star ratings per *year* or you lose your discount) - yet eBay treats buyers infinitely worse than they demand their own sellers treat buyers.  The hypocrisy is palpable!

Can't agree more, the weakest link in the ebay-paypal system are ebay and paypal themselves, and they are also the most protective of their own interests.  Nobody seems to have a clue that the whole ebay thing, at the end, is funded by the buyer paying their hard cash buying things.

The best thing that had happened to me of my ebay buying experiences is ebay and paypal screwed me after the seller screwed me on some fake laser diodes, and forced me onto the Taobao eco system.  It was very painful at the beginning.  But the saving, the range of products, etc have overcompensated for the pain many more time.  On taobao, due to too many clever-by-half sellers, they have a much better system.  All credible sellers are aiming for perfect score for every transaction, as the guy with top credit rating can sell in sginficantly much more volume and also at a slightly higher price.

[donotdespisethesnake]

I've also been confused by all the different policies and laws, which change often. I have given up with ebay auctions, they are a waste of time. Ebay support are a chocolate teapot, there are lots of impressive sounding guarantees but I have never got a penny back from ebay even if the item was never sent or it is obviously not as described.

Beyond that, if the item is faulty or not as described then <the seller> must pay return shipping.

Sadly, that is no longer true. It was true under the Distance Selling Regulations, but these have been superseded by Consumer Contracts regulations, in which it is possible for the seller to specify that the buyer should pay for return postage even if faulty.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations

[grumpydoc]

Sadly, that is no longer true. It was true under the Distance Selling Regulations, but these have been superseded by Consumer Contracts regulations, in which it is possible for the seller to specify that the buyer should pay for return postage even if faulty.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations

At the bottom of the page you quote it says:

"Any terms and conditions that say you must cover the cost of returning an item wouldn’t apply where the goods being returned are faulty."

[dannyf]

they are also the most protective of their own interests. 

Tough to blame anybody for that,

Nobody seems to have a clue that the whole ebay thing, at the end, is funded by the buyer paying their hard cash buying things.

It is precisely because of that, ebay is incredibly protective of buyers. They understand that as long as they have the buyers, (professional) sellers will be there and transactions will take place and ebay will be fine.

That's in no small part driven by the large number of Chinese sellers willing to put up with services like that. It would be interesting to see how / if this changes when alibaba goes into this market.

[Zero999]

Negative for what?  If the seller is refusing to take something back, sure.  If it's because you were unhappy with the terms you agreed to, or because luck dealt you a defective unit, it hardly seems fair.

Here in the EU consumer law is clear and is very fair. If you return an item because you were unhappy with it or the terms you agree to but it is was not defective, then you have to pay for the return postage, as it's not fair the supplier should be out of pocket. On the other hand, if you were dealt a defective unit, then the seller has to pay return postage, since it's the voided the contract by supplying you with defective goods, whether it was intentional or not and it's not fair that the consumer should be out of pocket.

[Zero999]

There are some exemptions such as software:

Exemptions There are some circumstances where the Consumer Contracts Regulations won’t give you a right to cancel.

These include, CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping,

That could cause problems though as quite often you're not allowed to see the end user licence agreement for software, until after you've opened the box and put the DVD in your PC. What happens if you don't agree with the licence for whatever reason? Can you return it. You should be able to, unless the terms and conditions of the licence agreement were made clear to you before you broke the seal, otherwise it's not fair to the consumer.

[smjcuk]

It's pretty easy to get the disk out without breaking the seal.

Also EULA isn't necessarily enforceable. Bought a faulty XP Pro CD years ago and took it back to the retailer. Retailer told me to impolitely go away. So I phoned my card company who after consulting their legal guys suggested they were being dicks and there was no legal ground for what they were doing so they just did a charge back.

[Zero999]

It's pretty easy to get the disk out without breaking the seal.

Also EULA isn't necessarily enforceable. Bought a faulty XP Pro CD years ago and took it back to the retailer. Retailer told me to impolitely go away. So I phoned my card company who after consulting their legal guys suggested they were being dicks and there was no legal ground for what they were doing so they just did a charge back.

In that case it had nothing to do with the EULA. The clause in the consumer contracts regulations stating you can't return software, only applies if it's because you changed your mind (no doubt this is an anti-piracy measure) not if it's faulty. In your case, the CD was damaged so they were legally obliged to accept a return, irrespective of their policy.

What if the disc wasn't damaged but the EULA contained something you couldn't agree to so refused to install it?

[edavid]

Years ago, I heard a news that a guy in the US bought a Win7 preinstalled laptop, and he thought Win7 sucks, so he sued Dell, and Dell eventually refunded some money for the preinstalled system.

Garbled... see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows#License_refund_policy

[DavidDLC]

I received a defective unit, I need to pay for shipping to return it and get my money, sucks !

The return conditions are stated right below the bid/buy-it-now button.   Did you read them?  If so, did you agree to them by purchasing the item but then didn't want to abide by them when they became relevant?

I cannot give negative feedback immediatelly, I need to wait seven days, really !

Negative for what?  If the seller is refusing to take something back, sure.  If it's because you were unhappy with the terms you agreed to, or because luck dealt you a defective unit, it hardly seems fair.

I sold an item, the buyer didn't pay, on the monthly fee they still charge for that, sucking even more.

eBay credits sellers for final value fees on unpaid items.  Simply file an unpaid item case and you will be credited.  You can also re-list the item for free.

What a crap system, unfortunatelly they are dominating the market well... a lot of people still uses them.

I agree it is crap, but IMO it's mostly due to unreasonable buyers.  Such as... agreeing to a return policy and then being upset that they are expected to abide by that agreement and leaving a negative for being expected to live up to their agreement.   

I'm not saying it's necessarily the case in your situation, but it sure seems like you're not owning it.

Looks like you work for them or love them.

I had to pay for the shipment back because you need to select a reason to return the item.

I selected not the right size, because I received an item that was not the right size it was shorter, I continued with the process and just later you realize that I needed to pay for shipment, you are not able to go back and select another option you are stuck with your first choice and trust me there is nothing preventing you that if you select the option I did you will pay for shipment.

I called ebay and the stupid representative said there is nothing they or I can do and that I need to pay for shipment because I selected that option and it cannot be changed.

I contaced the buyer and he said exactly the same, since I selected that option I have to pay shipment.

Of course I will give negative feedback to the seller because they sent a defective unit, if you are a seller make sure your item is correct or make everything possible to fix the situation, in my case I still think they need to pay for the shipping back.

David.

[DavidDLC]

eBay won't charge you for unpaid items. If you cancel the transaction in a month, they will not send you invoice at all. If you forgot to cancel it, eBay will give you an invoice, but you can call them to give you a refund.

Yes on that one, my point here is that they have to charge you when you receive the payment, not when you sell it.

David.

[G0HZU]

I don't use ebay that much (maybe 200 purchases?) but I'm very much a buyer and in all the years I've been using it I think I've only been stung once... for about £25.

Ironically, it was from a seller I know from years ago who is a ham radio parts seller.

Apart from this I've had some amazing bargains on ebay so I still think it's great. Not sure I'd want to try selling stuff on there though...

[quarks]

just today I had to learn that eBay Customer Service and also ebay protection is just disastrous.

here in short what happend:
- paid via paypal (incl. shipping and "No additional import charges at delivery!") for goods I never received
- informed the seller that he send me the wrong item
- never got an answer
- had to wait until I could open a ebay problem case
- gave ebay all infomation I had and found out myself
- never got a anwser to what I wrote them, but stupid reponses which showed they did not even read the information I gave them
- wrote several mails to clarify and asked again for help
- ebay never answered
- finally without doing anything to solve the problem, ebay closed the case

For me that is really beyond belief experience I do not want anyone to make, so better avoid ebay.

[PlainName]

I selected not the right size, because I received an item that was not the right size it was shorter

That's where you went wrong: you are saying you ordered the wrong size, so therefore it's your fault and you pay return shipping.

What you should have said is it was not as described - that is, the description was for size A and the vendor sent size B. That's the vendor's fault and you the don't pay return shipping.

Once you've done that, it's pretty much undoable, so complaining about it after the fact wouldn't get you anywhere.

I've been on Ebay for a few years and generally had a decent time. I've ordered the wrong stuff, paid stupid money, the usual buyer cockups. For those I've taken the hit. OTOH, I've had some bad buying experiences but always had it resolved satisfactorily. That include a huge piece of test equipment that cost $90 to ship from the States, came more damaged than the vendor described, and I got return shipping refunded on that.

I agree that finding the info or processes necessary to have a satisfactory conclusion can  be problematic, but generally you can do it if you try. Certainly easier than, say, getting PCWorld to refund DOA kit.