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Ebay -PayPal +Adyen: what does it mean for private sellers?
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tggzzz:
Noodling around for information isn't encouraging. Note that the excerpts below may well be incorrect; getting better information is the point of this thread!

From January 2020, many links at https://www.auctionnudge.com/guides/adyen-ebay-managed-payments/

"Sellers are required to comply with the managed payments transition to continue selling on eBay. Registration for managed payments will require identity verification, bank account details and business information" https://www.auctionnudge.com/guides/adyen-ebay-managed-payments/

"Other concerns about managed payments include: The risk of another major data breach, this time with payment processing details. Anticipation that eBay will ask sellers to ship items before receiving funds" https://www.auctionnudge.com/guides/adyen-ebay-managed-payments/
Given I've had a couple of non-payers recently, that's unacceptable to me.
Given the access to my bank account details (rather than credit card details which give me significant legal protection), the possibility of a data breach is unacceptable to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27539799

"While I was doing my research to write this post I noticed many people asked about monthly fees and found that Adyen does charge a minimum invoice of €100 ($120 U.S.) per month, depending on transaction volume and region." https://crazylister.com/blog/adyen-payments-ebay/
No. Full stop!

"To enable payments in their eBay accounts, sellers should expect to provide eBay with some additional payments-related data and transition to a new relationship with eBay that includes integrated payments capabilities. Sellers will be required to complete these steps in order to continue selling on eBay, and it is anticipated that this transition for sellers will occur no later than one year after the expiration of eBay’s Operating Agreement with PayPal, i.e., by July 2021." https://www.ebayinc.com/stories/news/ebay-to-intermediate-payments-on-its-marketplace-platform/

"Do I need a bank account to receive payouts? Yes, payouts are sent directly to your bank account when eBay manages payments. During the registration process you can choose to add any checking account - whether existing or new. Does managed payments support direct deposit accounts? No, sellers enabled for managed payments can only link a checking account to receive their payouts." https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/service-and-payments/managed-payments-on-ebay.html

"For your convenience, the costs of refunds, eBay Money Back Guarantee and payment disputes will be deducted from your pending payouts. If these are not sufficient, we will use your linked bank account, followed by credit card, to cover the balance of any owed amounts....If a seller does not have enough funds in their Available for payout, or Pending Funds to cover the full amount of a refund, we will charge the seller’s payout bank account or automatic payment method, depending on preference, to cover the remaining amount. " https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/service-and-payments/managed-payments-on-ebay.html
Ebay forcing me into an overdraft by sucking money from my bank account is absolutely unacceptable.

And that's enough for now.
bd139:
Three things:

Firstly this is no different to the current paypal agreement. Go and read it carefully. Get a mule basic bank account (I run one with Halifax) that has no overdraft capability and link that to paypal/whatever. It'll just reject the transaction. Set the backup credit card to a prepaid mastercard. On top of that they can only pull from an account by prior agreement in the UK (direct debit) and the legal standing is you can invalidate that agreement retrospectively unconditionally including fees and charges incurred if you disagree with a transaction.

Secondly, Adyen's current policy is defined only for business sellers and is similar to a typical merchant's agreements. This is a whole new integration for individual non-corporate sellers which will be in line with consumer law.

Thirdly, the CJEU invalidated the EU-U.S. Privacy Shield agreement invalid which has really fucked up the entire payment services market across Europe. That means it might not actually be legally possible for eBay, headquartered in the USA, to process data for any EU citizens lawfully. Ho ho ho. Watch this space. Even the lawyers don't know what to do about that one.

As for data breach, yep!

Edit: I am somewhat worried about the direction generally though as generally lobbying is very effective because politicians are bent as fuck so I'd rather like to see a neutral market with no interest other than providing sales contacts and let them work the transactions out. Unfortunately in the UK that's gumtree and ebay own it  ::)
Towger:
tggzzz,

There is a lot of Americanisms in the info quoted, which may not convert well into the European SEPA (but to a better extent with the British BACS) system.  For example, under SEPA it is easier reverse a direct debit from your bank account than do a credit card charge back.  If done in 13 days, no questions asked.  With my bank they have a 'Cancel' button beside each debit transaction.  Of course eBay/Adyen will probably just freeze your account afterwards, much like PayPal does for a charge back.  It will be interesting to see how far they push this, or will PayPal be the 'Classic Coke'.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: bd139 on August 05, 2020, 04:46:17 pm ---Three things:

Firstly this is no different to the current paypal agreement. Go and read it carefully.

--- End quote ---

Neither paypal nor ebay has my bank account details. Paypal has my credit card details, which is very different and fine by me.


--- Quote ---Get a mule basic bank account (I run one with Halifax) that has no overdraft capability and link that to paypal/whatever. It'll just reject the transaction. Set the backup credit card to a prepaid mastercard.

--- End quote ---

The mule account had occurred to me, but the prepaid credit card is a neat trick - assuming They allow it.


--- Quote ---On top of that they can only pull from an account by prior agreement in the UK (direct debit) and the legal standing is you can invalidate that agreement retrospectively unconditionally including fees and charges incurred if you disagree with a transaction.

--- End quote ---

That kind of consideration occurred to me, but I've never had to invoke anything of the kind.

My understanding is that ebay takes BACS/CHAPS detail, and I don't understand if that opens different liabilities.


--- Quote ---Secondly, Adyen's current policy is defined only for business sellers and is similar to a typical merchant's agreements. This is a whole new integration for individual non-corporate sellers which will be in line with consumer law.

--- End quote ---

Ebay makes repeated explict statements that it will be rolled out to private sellers.


--- Quote ---Thirdly, the CJEU invalidated the EU-U.S. Privacy Shield agreement invalid which has really fucked up the entire payment services market across Europe. That means it might not actually be legally possible for eBay, headquartered in the USA, to process data for any EU citizens lawfully. Ho ho ho. Watch this space. Even the lawyers don't know what to do about that one.

--- End quote ---

Unfortunately we won't be in the EU, and will be tossed hither and thither between the US and China.


--- Quote ---As for data breach, yep!

Edit: I am somewhat worried about the direction generally though as generally lobbying is very effective because politicians are bent as fuck so I'd rather like to see a neutral market with no interest other than providing sales contacts and let them work the transactions out. Unfortunately in the UK that's gumtree and ebay own it  ::)

--- End quote ---
bd139:
BACS pull from consumers is Direct Debit. They may ask you to sign up. Do it then log into your banking and cancel the authorisation. Job done :)
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