General > General Technical Chat
Education level required for employment as EE
IanB:
--- Quote from: SteveyG on September 09, 2016, 10:26:30 am ---Interesting - if you apply for a MEng in the UK, you generally do 4 years of lectures rather than 3 - i.e. you just learn more rather than doing a thesis. The final year project that you would have done in the 3rd year is done in the 4th year instead. If you took a BEng, there's not usually a simple route to getting an MEng - probably doing a new degree.
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But an MEng first degree is not equivalent to a MSc postgraduate degree.
Zero999:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on September 09, 2016, 08:36:33 am ---
--- Quote from: CM800 on September 09, 2016, 08:32:43 am ---Does anyone know the general consensis on an HNC in Electronic Engineering? It's considered an equivilent stand alone (usually work based) qualification to a first year of a degree.
--- Quote ---Higher National Certificates and Higher National Diplomas (HNCs/HNDs) are work-related qualifications.
Study is usually full or part-time over one or two years. An HNC is equivalent to the first year of a degree, an HND to the second year of a degree.
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My opinion is that HNC/HND don't have anywhere near as much theory as a good degree course; they are more practically-focussed. That's fine, but be aware of every alternative's limitations.
However, there are a lot of poor degree courses around. Caveat emptor.
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Well I don't have a degree so don't know for sure about the theory but the HND course I studied contained very little practical work. Most of the practical work I did was on the job training and didn't have anything to do with the HND but it counter towards city and guilds, a different qualification. I was told by my lecturer that if I wanted to do a degree, the theory wouldn't necessarily be more complicated, just more in-depth and more specialised, depending on the course. After completing my HND I felt burned out, as far as study is concerned and decided to take a gap before going back to do a degree but I never did.
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: Hero999 on September 09, 2016, 05:21:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on September 09, 2016, 08:36:33 am ---
--- Quote from: CM800 on September 09, 2016, 08:32:43 am ---Does anyone know the general consensis on an HNC in Electronic Engineering? It's considered an equivilent stand alone (usually work based) qualification to a first year of a degree.
--- Quote ---Higher National Certificates and Higher National Diplomas (HNCs/HNDs) are work-related qualifications.
Study is usually full or part-time over one or two years. An HNC is equivalent to the first year of a degree, an HND to the second year of a degree.
--- End quote ---
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My opinion is that HNC/HND don't have anywhere near as much theory as a good degree course; they are more practically-focussed. That's fine, but be aware of every alternative's limitations.
However, there are a lot of poor degree courses around. Caveat emptor.
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Well I don't have a degree so don't know for sure about the theory but the HND course I studied contained very little practical work. Most of the practical work I did was on the job training and didn't have anything to do with the HND but it counter towards city and guilds, a different qualification. I was told by my lecturer that if I wanted to do a degree, the theory wouldn't necessarily be more complicated, just more in-depth and more specialised, depending on the course.
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It seems not much has changed in 30 years, and that there is broad agreement about a degree vs an HND.
One anecdote is that I remember a 2nd year maths student seeing our maths lectures, and being flabbergasted that we were covering much the same topics as he was! The end-of-year exams started "full marks will be obtained for answers to about six questions"; the lecturer wasn't too certain how much we could have assimilated! Bloody hard work :)
--- Quote ---After completing my HND I felt burned out, as far as study is concerned and decided to take a gap before going back to do a degree but I never did.
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That's fair enough, and no doubt that was the best decision for you.
As to a lot of theory in a good electronic engineering course: yes, and that's just what I wanted and needed before starting the course. I was knackered at the end, but raring to get out and put it into practice in industry - which I promptly did :)
The main thing which annoys me (and I'm not implying you have this view) is statements to the effect that "nurses claiming there's no benefit to being a doctor, and that doctors are impractical and useless". Both doctors and nurses are necessary; neither is sufficient.
Tabs:
I'm the hardware lead for my company and I'm also responsible for selecting new hw hires. I thought I'd give you my POV regarding what I look for in a candidate and why.
I prefer a generalist over a specialist. 90% of the work needs people with a broad skill set. When we get stuck in a niche area on 10% of time, we usually hire a contractor with specialist knowledge/expertise in that area. These people never have a MEng/Msc or PhD , just a lot of experience gained over time. The above is probably true for the vast majority of employers since only a few companies do high end new research.
This makes me consider BEng/MEng over Msc/PhD. This is backed up by experience when conducting interviews. The amount of times I see a BEng beat Msc makes me think it's a waste of time going any further than a BEng. That being said, the standard of BEng/MEng/Msc seem to be dropping every year. The MEng candidates are pot luck. Some are very good, others are worse than BEng. The ones that are good, are better than Msc.
The qualification is there just to get you past the hr department. Once you get to me, I can quickly tell if your're any good with a skim of your CV and phone call. That's when I decide to give you a face to face interview.
I would recommend analogue, digital, control, communication as core electives. Followed up by digital, especially if your university offers anything around FPGAs (verilog/vhdl) or embedded. In the UK we have a mechatronics degree which is a specialised eee degree concentrating on robotics and mechanical electronics.
Then there is ise which information systems engineering. This is a mixture of ee and computer science and it's primarily intended for software/hardware embedded people.
This will give you the kind of skills for any electronics job except rf/microwave (for which you will need electromagnetism and up to MEng), or microelectronics (for which you will need work experience).
The above field are niche(er) and you have less competition but fewer opportunity for employment. The general skills give you more competition but more opportunity for employment.
Specific things to learn: FPGAs, ARM, circuit analysis, feedback, PSU design.
Easiest places for jobs for new grad ee are in defence. The projects are not normally high end (mostly supporting legacy designs) unless you have an UOR. the time lines and money are not usually as critical in commercial sector.
These companies are usually filled with old grey beards that you can learn a lot from. It's generally a good place to incubate your skills. Stay about 4 years and move to commercial side where salary is a little higher (so is commercial pressure).
Also, have a realistic expectation of salary. I offer places to UK students only for them to ask for way over the top. Negotiation is OK, but be realistic. The last two positions went to two Spaniards. One left after a year because she learnt enough to get a better paid job just down the road. The other is still with us and he's doing great work. After 1.5 years he's on the salary the UK applicants we asking for. The UK applicants came back after a week to ask for the job but it had already gone.
tggzzz:
I agree with your view; it matches my experience.
--- Quote from: Tabs on September 09, 2016, 11:09:39 pm ---I prefer a generalist over a specialist. 90% of the work needs people with a broad skill set. When we get stuck in a niche area on 10% of time, we usually hire a contractor with specialist knowledge/expertise in that area.
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Yes indeed, but I'll add that I look for a generalist that has succeeded in depth in some topic, since that tends to indicates they can learn whatever we need next and apply it. To be checked during the interview, of course.
--- Quote ---This makes me consider BEng/MEng over Msc/PhD.
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Our experience was that there was only one valid reason for doing a PhD, and many spurious ones. The latter included better job prospects/money; the former was "because I wanted to".
--- Quote ---The qualification is there just to get you past the hr department. Once you get to me, I can quickly tell if your're any good with a skim of your CV and phone call. That's when I decide to give you a face to face interview.
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Yes, in spades. I'd add recruitment agencies to HR-droids.
A major problem is that PHBs and HR-droids don't know enough to assess technical competence, and can be so clueless they don't even realise it. While everybody has a tendency to "recruit in their own image", that's all PHBs and HR-droids can do. Hence the concept of "the old school tie".
--- Quote ---I would recommend ...
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Look for a curriculum that preserves your ability to make late choices, and avoid those that mention very specific technologies. Hence "real time software" and "digital design" are OK, but "Xilinx Artix" or "WinRT" are not. The former will be useful in 30 years. The latter will be irrelevant in 5 years.
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